EVE General Discussion

For some reason I immediately understood he's talking about 0.0. That's his context and he's teasing hi seccers in the same posts even when referring to catalysts (something he and you well know he won't see in 0.0 anyway).
Now feel free to start your umpteenth tirade and hair splitting, but his post was just about that, not about your context and nothing you say will change that.




Once again you theorycraft and speak out pure on paper reality. You can count those fleets on the tip of one finger, which is the middle finger people show at you and Ruby Porto when you suggest theoretical garbage like mutual webbing and similar.




A fleet is formed by GAMERS (not serious RL logistics nutjobs) who want to do X to achieve Y.
As of now the :effort: of using Hulks vs the meager reward completely skews their viability. And most of all, cost vs zero survivability even when guarded.
Also, for being a fleet ship, Hulks are the ship that gets the worst from Orca buffs, that's so much fail right in that. At least they should have made an Hulk unique Orca buff 130% multiplier just to make Hulks benefit as much as the other ships do in absolute tank terms.

It's days I only and exclusively find: Macks, Retrievers (even more than Macks!) - glad my BPOs are churning them out in droves, some procurers and a rare Skiff. There are some Hulks some times but they are old relics waiting to get popped (Hulks are what gankers ATM go after, they are the bright shining white flea) or going to be used outside belts.

You can paper-pretend all day long, Macks are the new king. Unlike others, I don't complain as I am getting even more money than I thought I'd stop doing at patch speculation day AND I actually love those ships so much I am tempted to mine again myself.

…meaning his comment was both off-topic and full of bad advice. He was just flat-out wrong.

That's their problem. It doesn't mean the means and mechanics are not there — it means they are not willing to use them and claiming that nothing exist is ignorant.

Yes. And the effort pays off. A tiny bit of effort will also give them far more than zero survivability. The purpose of the Hulk is to achieve maximum yield. It does exactly that when supported by a fleet. If you “Y” is something else than “get the most minerals” then yes, the Hulk might not be the right choice. This is by design.

They get the same buffs everyone else gets.

Yes? And? People like to solo mine. Macks and Retrievers are the solo mining ships. What's the problem?

And that's what they were designed to be. "Glass cannons" for roid munching.

That kind of goes against the whole "tiericide" CCP project.

Care to demonstrate how replacing the One King To Rule Them All with another goes along with tiericide?I can foresee a majority going for the Mack but it should be 60% not 90% (then 7% Skiffs). Ofc the numbers are taken out of my ass but they quite describe what's easily visible in both ice and roid belts in The Forge and around Rens.

Of course, after all we have those T2 battleships that are so fitting a role and... wait, there are more titans than T2 battleships (so a dev blog said).

So, making all ships get a role is one step but making them played is good game design.

CCP should rethink their game design before the go ahead with further Tiericide else it'll be just the same fail we have today, just with different ships being neglected and others being the king.

The difference being that the hulk is useful and the t2 battleships - not so much. For example I'm still solo mining with a covetor. For my play-style it gives me better isk/hr than a retriever. So why should I be using a retriever? That's not the case with black ops (I assume you meant them since the marauders are quite common).

Playing forum sheriff is not your business. The other readers can make their own opinion about him without you showing them the light.




Close to useless tends to none.




It's not about AFK work. Its about "CBA to bother with menial tasks done through a laggy and terrible UI (you should know about it, eh?) to get somehow better yield".
My industry alt has been CEO in an industry corp (Minerva) that peaked at 50 members, all involved in mining operations both in hi and 0.0 sec. Just in May I was having multi-corp mining ops with 2 other corps.
I am a sample of a mining op because I have done and organized it in practice and if I tell you that Hulks are NOT worth the hassle maybe it's because it's true. The crystal menial task per se would not be so bad if it did not also add to a number of other purposedly imposed hassles. Try, just TRY to defend a wet paper fleet against motivated gankers.
I have seen how it goes, the only place where Hulks may still be used is strong sov 0.0.
But wait, I did not read that Tiericide = one ship class now is relegated to strong sov 0.0.
On paper you can pretend to do the fleet thingy in hi sec but hey, even the same friends who ALWAYS used Hulks now all replaced them with Macks.

Are everybody who don't conform to your theories "soloers" now?





Of course I also have Tier 3 BCs BPOs so maybe I tested them?

Tier 3 BCs have this thing: they effing shine at their purpose. Hulks don't shine. They crawl above the others and only in very situational "all stars aligned" situations.

I suppose your idea of Tiericide on BCs will involve making a Tornado alpha 15% more than a Cyclone right? In exchange of some asinine UI titillating of course. And when they will fail you'll tell it's just intended?

Well, I'm talking about making L4 Recon 3 actually pay. Yeah, you can run it with a lot of ships, but which of the ships that can make the crossing can ALSO effectively harvest the ore? The missions pays by rapidly munching rocks at the end.

You say ANY SHIP can make it. If you are suggesting that a Hulk can make the run, post an un-photo-shopped screen snap and I'll gladly eat my words.

Actually 15% is quite huge when you start multiplying it by every hulk in a fleet. Let's say corp A uses 10 mackinaws with full fleet boosters etc. They can mine (in theory) about 1000k m3 per hour. If they're mining arkonor that means about 350m isk per hour. On the other hand corp B is using 10 hulks and they're mining about 1150-1200k m3 per hour. Which translate to about 410m isk per hour. Tell me again why the hulk isn't worth it.

P.s. Those numbers were pulled from the eve isk per hour calculator.

Edit: Disregard the m3 per hour. Forgot to account for the reduced cycle times >< Isk per hour should be accurate though.

Those same annoyances apply to the mackinaw as well. Though I agree that a "real world" test would be the best comparison between the two. I'd love to see someone doing it :)