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The new Mackinkaw, new king miner, better than a hauler, all in one, afk mining machine.
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Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#241 - 2012-08-15 11:27:27 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
... bla ...

You simply don't get the game ... that's all ... and in the same moment you keep blaming us
for forcing "our way of playing" onto you, while you just keep ignoring that we don't ... and keep
ignoring how the game works.

Ah, I don't get the game?

There are Asteroids with Ore which I can gather by using a Bark and Miner equip to sell it at the Market. As soon as I undock there is a risk to lose the Bark+Equip+gathered stuff.
I like to do this and as it's a a LEGETIM part of this sandbox game .... I do it!
And I'm realy happy, that I don't have to be 100% active like I have to be when I play WoT, LoL or other action games as I can do real life stuff too while I play.

THIS is the game for me!

You don't like my little corner of this sandbox? NOT my problem!

But it seams to be a BIG problem for you to except my little corner. YOUR problem!
And as it is YOUR problem, you want me to convice, that this game has to be played the way YOU want it.

Well realy realy sorry ... but I give a **** how you want it to be. I found my corner which I like and can't see any reason to leave this corner!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#242 - 2012-08-15 11:32:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
[How am I dictating anything? I'm telling them how the game works

HAHAHAHA, this is funny :)
You tell them how you want the game to work ..... but naaaa, you don't dictate it.
Yea, this was a nice joke Blink.


As if someone would need YOU to tell him how the game work.
Tutorial >>>>>>>> YOU!

Tutorial says "you can be a Miner" => your opinions are irelevant!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#243 - 2012-08-15 11:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Boom
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Zishy wrote:
Tikera Tissant wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:


For belt hauling, the mackinkaw beats primary haulers at their own role. Forget the rest, i'm talking about belt hauling. There's no need to use a hauler anymore, infact even if you're mining in a team, you're better of mining with all mackinkaws, a hauler is not going to increase your yield, infact it will decrease, you're better off with all mackinkaws and no hauler. It's far easier, and you get more ore.

The imbalance here is plain as day, no mining ship should be able to haul ore as well as or better than an actual dedicated hauler does. If you really want a dedicated hauler anyway, just use another Mackinkaw, it can mine between hauling sessions. If you're going to do that though you may aswell just use each miner as its own hauler anyway. God, this is so dumb.


You are dead wrong.

When mining in a team you are mining in hulks. They dump their load to the orca, and the orca either takes the ore to the station, or you are using another orca to transfer the ore to the station.

There is absolutely no reason to use mackinaws in a team ops. Even when not tanked they will not do as much m3/hour as a tanked hulk with a booster orca. No need to go and dump your load means lots more cycles dedicated to mining than flying to station, which makes the ops a hell of alot more efficient. Using macks in a team is very in-efficient.

For a solo miner, its retriever->mackinaw.
For a group miner its retriever->hulk.
For a null miner its mainly a skiff.


what kind of bullshit are you writing here.

solo miner = mackinaw
group miner = mackinaw>hulk
null miner = mackinaw>hulk

LOL???
Did you read the DEV-Blog?

In a group where you have Haulers Hulk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mackinaw.
If you mine in dangures areas Skif >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mackinaw.
If you are to lazy anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU Twisted

The numbers don't lie. You do!


The numbers don't lie, almost all orca mining groups are using macs, even group miners don't want the hulk. See for yourself all the orcas in the belts in these screens and the mac dominance even in the presence of many orcas. Almost all players will take the huge convenience the mac offers over the hulk.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3889/vaurent.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4728/oppold.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1461/misneden.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4369/kinfield2.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1443/kinfield1.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3065/eygm.jpg
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4093/elona.jpg
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2774/dant.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7449/brapelle.jpg
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/4291/ardall.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6778/abudban.jpg
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2702/aakari.jpg
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#244 - 2012-08-15 11:40:26 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
You tell them how you want the game to work ..... but naaaa, you don't dictate it.
No. I tell them how the game works. CCP dictates it.

Quote:
As if someone would need YOU to tell him how the game work.
Tutorial >>>>>>>> YOU!
The tutorial doesn't cover the issues I'm going over and explaining.

Quote:
Tutorial says "you can be a Miner" => your opinions are irelevant!
Non sequitur. Why are my opinions rendered irrelevant by the tutorial? It's not like they contradict each other.

Suddenly Boom wrote:
The numbers don't lie, almost all orca mining groups are using macs, even group miners don't want the hulk. See for yourself all the orcas in the belts in these screens and the overwhelming mac dominance even in the presence of many orcas.
You're missing a rather important column in those screen shots. There's nothing to suggest that any of those actually group mine. The numbers don't lie, but all they're showing is that people like the solo playstyle. This is not news. It doesn't contradict that the Hulk is a better mining ship and that it excels in fleets.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#245 - 2012-08-15 11:42:22 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:

The numbers don't lie, almost all orca mining groups are using macs, even group miners don't want the hulk.

But NOT becouse the Hulk doesn't mine less.

They use the Mack a) becouse they are lazy and don't want to jetcan every minute or b) they prefare to have a bit more safty to prevent small gank suizids.

There are many topics where gankers say "CCP can buff miners as much as they want ... the Miner will still fit for max Yield" (no, I don't do the search for you, use brain+search function and you will find it!).
Now the Miner DO prefare a bit more defens ... and again you try to blame them when they learned:
- max Yield == bad
- bit defens == good
ROFL?

Hulk HAS the best Yield/min.
Skif HAS the best defens.
Mack offers a good mix.

Works as intended, nothing wrong.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Zishy
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#246 - 2012-08-15 11:54:32 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Zishy wrote:
Tikera Tissant wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:


For belt hauling, the mackinkaw beats primary haulers at their own role. Forget the rest, i'm talking about belt hauling. There's no need to use a hauler anymore, infact even if you're mining in a team, you're better of mining with all mackinkaws, a hauler is not going to increase your yield, infact it will decrease, you're better off with all mackinkaws and no hauler. It's far easier, and you get more ore.

The imbalance here is plain as day, no mining ship should be able to haul ore as well as or better than an actual dedicated hauler does. If you really want a dedicated hauler anyway, just use another Mackinkaw, it can mine between hauling sessions. If you're going to do that though you may aswell just use each miner as its own hauler anyway. God, this is so dumb.


You are dead wrong.

When mining in a team you are mining in hulks. They dump their load to the orca, and the orca either takes the ore to the station, or you are using another orca to transfer the ore to the station.

There is absolutely no reason to use mackinaws in a team ops. Even when not tanked they will not do as much m3/hour as a tanked hulk with a booster orca. No need to go and dump your load means lots more cycles dedicated to mining than flying to station, which makes the ops a hell of alot more efficient. Using macks in a team is very in-efficient.

For a solo miner, its retriever->mackinaw.
For a group miner its retriever->hulk.
For a null miner its mainly a skiff.


what kind of bullshit are you writing here.

solo miner = mackinaw
group miner = mackinaw>hulk
null miner = mackinaw>hulk

LOL???
Did you read the DEV-Blog?

In a group where you have Haulers Hulk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mackinaw.
If you mine in dangures areas Skif >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mackinaw.
If you are to lazy anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU Twisted

The numbers don't lie. You do!



sweety i mine with full rorqual boosts and 6hulks. 6macks actualy are better then 6 hulks because you can just drop a full can every 10minutes instead of having to drag **** from your cargohold every 104seconds. my hulks yield is over 5k per cycle so in order for me not to drop stripminers i have to click every single account and drag the ore out into a can.

with macks all this trouble is nonexistent. i dont know what you publords are doing in empire space but in null where the big boys and girls live its very different
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#247 - 2012-08-15 11:57:26 UTC
Zishy wrote:
sweety i mine with full rorqual boosts and 6hulks. 6macks actualy are better then 6 hulks because you can just drop a full can every 10minutes instead of having to drag **** from your cargohold every 104seconds. my hulks yield is over 5k per cycle so in order for me not to drop stripminers i have to click every single account and drag the ore out into a can.
…so in other words, you're not really fleet mining. You're solo mining with a small gang of ships.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#248 - 2012-08-15 12:05:39 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:

Hulk HAS the best Yield/min.
Skif HAS the best defens.
Mack offers a good mix.

Works as intended, nothing wrong.


Actually, I bet if we looked at the fits, we'd see the macks are (primarily) fit for max yield, with a **** tank.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#249 - 2012-08-15 12:06:02 UTC
Zishy wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Zishy wrote:
Tikera Tissant wrote:
Tigress Tionese wrote:


For belt hauling, the mackinkaw beats primary haulers at their own role. Forget the rest, i'm talking about belt hauling. There's no need to use a hauler anymore, infact even if you're mining in a team, you're better of mining with all mackinkaws, a hauler is not going to increase your yield, infact it will decrease, you're better off with all mackinkaws and no hauler. It's far easier, and you get more ore.

The imbalance here is plain as day, no mining ship should be able to haul ore as well as or better than an actual dedicated hauler does. If you really want a dedicated hauler anyway, just use another Mackinkaw, it can mine between hauling sessions. If you're going to do that though you may aswell just use each miner as its own hauler anyway. God, this is so dumb.


You are dead wrong.

When mining in a team you are mining in hulks. They dump their load to the orca, and the orca either takes the ore to the station, or you are using another orca to transfer the ore to the station.

There is absolutely no reason to use mackinaws in a team ops. Even when not tanked they will not do as much m3/hour as a tanked hulk with a booster orca. No need to go and dump your load means lots more cycles dedicated to mining than flying to station, which makes the ops a hell of alot more efficient. Using macks in a team is very in-efficient.

For a solo miner, its retriever->mackinaw.
For a group miner its retriever->hulk.
For a null miner its mainly a skiff.


what kind of bullshit are you writing here.

solo miner = mackinaw
group miner = mackinaw>hulk
null miner = mackinaw>hulk

LOL???
Did you read the DEV-Blog?

In a group where you have Haulers Hulk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mackinaw.
If you mine in dangures areas Skif >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mackinaw.
If you are to lazy anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU Twisted

The numbers don't lie. You do!



sweety i mine with full rorqual boosts and 6hulks. 6macks actualy are better then 6 hulks because you can just drop a full can every 10minutes instead of having to drag **** from your cargohold every 104seconds. my hulks yield is over 5k per cycle so in order for me not to drop stripminers i have to click every single account and drag the ore out into a can.

with macks all this trouble is nonexistent. i dont know what you publords are doing in empire space but in null where the big boys and girls live its very different


This guy spelled it out right here. With the hulk he has to drop the ore every 104 seconds, with the mack you can mine for a much longer period without worrying about ore overflow, you can have afk breaks. Over a long period a mac user will mine more than a hulk user because they can mine and relax at the same time, resulting in much longer mining sessions.
Sarton Wells
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#250 - 2012-08-15 12:16:41 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
This guy spelled it out right here. With the hulk he has to drop the ore every 104 seconds, with the mack you can mine for a much longer period without worrying about ore overflow, you can have afk breaks. Over a long period a mac user will mine more than a hulk user because they can mine and relax at the same time, resulting in much longer mining sessions.


And that's why gankers have no reason to fear for the safety of their job.
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2012-08-15 12:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Boom
Sarton Wells wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
This guy spelled it out right here. With the hulk he has to drop the ore every 104 seconds, with the mack you can mine for a much longer period without worrying about ore overflow, you can have afk breaks. Over a long period a mac user will mine more than a hulk user because they can mine and relax at the same time, resulting in much longer mining sessions.


And that's why gankers have no reason to fear for the safety of their job.


I am a huge ganker of miners, with two top dps catalysts at my disposal. 2 is only enough for zero tank macks, semi tanked or greater requires 3-4 catalysts and i'm not sure if i want to invest in 2 more accounts just so i can clear the belts again :) people in the minmatar hi-sec ice fields will know me well :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#252 - 2012-08-15 12:25:48 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
I am a huge ganker of miners, with two top dps catalysts at my disposal. 2 is only enough for zero tank macks, semi tanked or greater requires 3-4 catalysts and i'm not sure if i want to invest in 2 more accounts just so i can clear the belts again :) people in the minmatar hi-sec ice fields will know me well :)
…and that is why 2 will still be enough more often than not. P
Zishy
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#253 - 2012-08-15 12:32:12 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Sarton Wells wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
This guy spelled it out right here. With the hulk he has to drop the ore every 104 seconds, with the mack you can mine for a much longer period without worrying about ore overflow, you can have afk breaks. Over a long period a mac user will mine more than a hulk user because they can mine and relax at the same time, resulting in much longer mining sessions.


And that's why gankers have no reason to fear for the safety of their job.


I am a huge ganker of miners, with two top dps catalysts at my disposal. 2 is only enough for zero tank macks, semi tanked or greater requires 3-4 catalysts and i'm not sure if i want to invest in 2 more accounts just so i can clear the belts again :) people in the minmatar hi-sec ice fields will know me well :)


you cant beat my macks/hulks in terms of tank. your catalysts will cry when they see my tanks

gistii a/b-type booster
pith/gist b-typ kinetic/thermal hardeners

have fun ganking that, if you even can. you would need a shitload of luck to even get to me. if you dont die on the way, if you can scan down the grav sites and if you can actualy catch somebody in the grav site that hasnt warped off yet, you will definetly get killed by somebody reshipping into a combatship and ****** by a bubbled outgate when you try to run away


its not as easy as you think. sure in empire space there will still be retards without a tank on their hulks, but where i mine, thats simply not going to happen. a battleship/bc spawn does more dps then you and i can tank a drake or a hurricane doing my damage profile perfectly fine.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#254 - 2012-08-15 12:33:03 UTC
Zishy wrote:
you cant beat my macks/hulks in terms of tank. your catalysts will cry when they see my tanks

gistii a/b-type booster
pith/gist b-typ kinetic/thermal hardeners

have fun ganking that, if you even can. you would need a shitload of luck to even get to me. if you dont die on the way, if you can scan down the grav sites and if you can actualy catch somebody in the grav site that hasnt warped off yet, you will definetly get killed by somebody reshipping into a combatship and ****** by a bubbled outgate when you try to run away


fyi you're just a really shiny target

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Milla Lekarariba
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#255 - 2012-08-15 12:46:44 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Nobody has pointed out that mackinkaw now holds more ore than an industrial hauler? How has nobody seen the fail logic in this?
Seeing as how you can't use the Mack as an industrial hauler, the fail logic lies in comparing it to one.

That was the entire reason for giving it a specific ore hold: so it can't be used that way, because all it ever will (and can) carry is space-wasting ore. If you want to haul stuff, the best ship for it is an industrial, since they can carry far more (both in terms of stuff and in terms of variety) than a simple mining ship can.


Unless you're using that industrial ship to haul ore from the belt, which is more its primary use.


Rubbish, you are forgetting one key thing here, training times, and of course do not forget the ever so slightly (sarcasm) different costs of buying those ships.

Even if you (god forbid) go to max out an industrial with cargo rigs etc, it is STILL cheaper than buying a Mack.
The only people who may use the Mack as an industrial are those who use it to mine, although with the higher risk of a gank, MOST would stick to an industrial as even though weaker, is potentially safer
Zishy
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#256 - 2012-08-15 12:47:18 UTC
Andski wrote:
Zishy wrote:
you cant beat my macks/hulks in terms of tank. your catalysts will cry when they see my tanks

gistii a/b-type booster
pith/gist b-typ kinetic/thermal hardeners

have fun ganking that, if you even can. you would need a shitload of luck to even get to me. if you dont die on the way, if you can scan down the grav sites and if you can actualy catch somebody in the grav site that hasnt warped off yet, you will definetly get killed by somebody reshipping into a combatship and ****** by a bubbled outgate when you try to run away


fyi you're just a really shiny target



yes all my ships are shiny (:
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#257 - 2012-08-15 12:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Zishy wrote:
you cant beat my macks/hulks in terms of tank. your catalysts will cry when they see my tanks

gistii a/b-type booster
pith/gist b-typ kinetic/thermal hardeners
I think that, by “cry”, you mean “jump for joy”.

You're fitting a module that doesn't help other than to make you a more worthwhile target.

Gistii A-type: 62.7 HP @ 1.7s cycle when overheated = 690 raw HP added at most in the time it takes for CONCORD to arrive. Much much less as you increase the sec level. Sets you back, oh, 200M or so… for ~290k ISK per HP at best; over 1M ISK per HP at worst.
Medium FS-9 extender: 900 raw HP added, no matter what. Sets you back 2M ISK for 2k ISK per HP every time.

Congratulations, you made your ship more than twice as expensive; you increased the gain for ganking you by an order of magnitue; and you made the ship weaker… oh, and they're going to use Thrasher against you so your hardeners aren't helping.
Zishy
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#258 - 2012-08-15 12:51:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Zishy wrote:
you cant beat my macks/hulks in terms of tank. your catalysts will cry when they see my tanks

gistii a/b-type booster
pith/gist b-typ kinetic/thermal hardeners
I think that, by “cry”, you mean “jump for joy”.

You're fitting a module that doesn't help other than to make you a more worthwhile target.

Gistii A-type: 62.7 HP @ 1.7s cycle when overheated = 690 raw HP added at most in the time it takes for CONCORD to arrive. Much much less as you increase the sec level. Sets you back, oh, 200M or so… for ~290k ISK per HP at best; over 1M ISK per HP at worst.
Medium FS-9 extender: 900 raw HP added, no matter what. Sets you back 2M ISK for 2k ISK per HP every time.

Congratulations, you made your ship more than twice as expensive; you increased the gain for ganking you by an order of magnitue; and you made the ship weaker… oh, and they're going to use Thrasher against you so your hardeners aren't helping.



you have no ******* clue what you can fit on a ship do you? there are no medium extenders on hulks or macks. and with 90% resists in kinetic or thermal his catalysts will be **** at best.

i have not lost a single hulk or mack yet - why? because i dont mine in ******* empire space. its dangerous and its stupid
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#259 - 2012-08-15 13:03:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Zishy wrote:
you have no ******* clue what you can fit on a ship do you?
Sure I do. For instance, I know how to get a MSE on there, which does you a whole lot more good than an active booster.

Quote:
i have not lost a single hulk or mack yet - why? because i dont mine in ******* empire space.
Then the booster is even more meaningless. They have no clock to fight against and your active tank is insignificant compared to the DPS they can bring, even if they choose to go after your main resists. There's also no unavoidable loss so they can bring whatever they like. How many cycles do you think you'll get off when you're staring down the barrel of 5k DPS?

In short: don't fit an active booster. It does. Not. Help. You.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#260 - 2012-08-15 13:10:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Zishy wrote:
you have no ******* clue what you can fit on a ship do you?
Sure I do. For instance, I know how to get a MSE on there, which does you a whole lot more good than an active booster.

Quote:
i have not lost a single hulk or mack yet - why? because i dont mine in ******* empire space.
Then the booster is even more meaningless. They have no clock to fight against and your active tank is insignificant compared to the DPS they can bring, even if they choose to go after your main resists. There's also no unavoidable loss so they can bring whatever they like. How many cycles do you think you'll get off when you're staring down the barrel of 5k DPS?

In short: don't fit an active booster. It does. Not. Help. You.


Stop telling people that. I'm making my living selling them those boosters and I can honestly say, that investing in a deadspace booster is the best investment you can make with a mining vessel. In fact I'm confident there are some tasty limited time offers available in Jita right now. Big smile