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If we are immortals...
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Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-08-12 00:58:20 UTC
In game through the use of clones...what is even the point of having conflict? I dont know why this came to mind just now and its more to the lore of EVE, but if our characters dont die, just simply spawn into a new clone then doesnt that make all conflict in game moot?

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#2 - 2012-08-12 01:01:18 UTC
Characters live, empires die.

MinerBumping.com
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-08-12 01:02:56 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Characters live, empires die.



But how? Im in an empire, I got blown up...I reclone and get another ship to carry on the fight right?

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Adalynne Rohks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-08-12 01:03:07 UTC
It's all about the implants
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#5 - 2012-08-12 01:06:46 UTC
We may be immortal space godesses and gods... but we are only an elite of a couple of 10 thousands in a galaxy of billions upon billions of people... do the math. Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-08-12 01:06:50 UTC
Adalynne Rohks wrote:
It's all about the implants


I mean, I can see that making a difference on some level. Ahh, I got exploded, no more implants so Im not as great of a pilot as I was before so I get blown up quicker lol.

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#7 - 2012-08-12 01:09:00 UTC
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#8 - 2012-08-12 01:10:13 UTC
Lord Arakkis wrote:
In game through the use of clones...what is even the point of having conflict? I dont know why this came to mind just now and its more to the lore of EVE, but if our characters dont die, just simply spawn into a new clone then doesnt that make all conflict in game moot?


Ok Mr Peace, from now you live in a small cargo container.

And don't start causing conflict over it, forever is not that long Twisted

I'm an American, English is my second language...
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#9 - 2012-08-12 01:10:46 UTC
Lord Arakkis wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Characters live, empires die.



But how? Im in an empire, I got blown up...I reclone and get another ship to carry on the fight right?

Not if you're in one of the countless empires throughout EVE's history that dissolved into nothing.

MinerBumping.com
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#10 - 2012-08-12 01:12:37 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Lord Arakkis wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Characters live, empires die.



But how? Im in an empire, I got blown up...I reclone and get another ship to carry on the fight right?

Not if you're in one of the countless empires throughout EVE's history that dissolved into nothing.


He's probably referring to highsec empires. heh.
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-08-12 01:19:20 UTC
I mean, I know its just a way of explaining away dying in the game, but you gotta think if we ever evolve in real life to be able to do the same, then what would be the point of fighting when your army and its soldiers can just return to the front lines immediately.

All wars would boil down to a battle of attrition. Who runs out of war machines first. And I get what someone has mentioned about the elite few being better than the rest, but that just leaves the situation where someone says "ok, this guy has only been cloned 2 times as opposed to their grunts 20. So lets get our guys who only have been cloned twice to counter.

I think in that age, everyone just gets together and smoke something.

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#12 - 2012-08-12 01:29:56 UTC
Logistically, you can only reappear on field while you have the resources to do so. If one side has superior tactics, you can overcome any equal or greater foe. It is implausible to think both sides even with cloning tech could be so unwavering equal as to never gain or lose ground.
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-08-12 01:32:21 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Logistically, you can only reappear on field while you have the resources to do so. If one side has superior tactics, you can overcome any equal or greater foe. It is implausible to think both sides even with cloning tech could be so unwavering equal as to never gain or lose ground.



Yea that is the point I was making with attrition. It would boil down to who has the greater finances and war machine to continue to put people on the front lines.

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#14 - 2012-08-12 01:36:10 UTC
Lord Arakkis wrote:
Yea that is the point I was making with attrition. It would boil down to who has the greater finances and war machine to continue to put people on the front lines.


Then the winning side controls more resources for the betterment of their own numbers.
This is conflict in purity. We help our own. We want what you have. We don't have enough. You have too much. We just don't f-n like you at all so DIE DIE DIE.
Niko medes
Freeman Technologies
#15 - 2012-08-12 01:45:44 UTC
Lord Arakkis wrote:
I mean, I know its just a way of explaining away dying in the game, but you gotta think if we ever evolve in real life to be able to do the same, then what would be the point of fighting when your army and its soldiers can just return to the front lines immediately.

All wars would boil down to a battle of attrition. Who runs out of war machines first. And I get what someone has mentioned about the elite few being better than the rest, but that just leaves the situation where someone says "ok, this guy has only been cloned 2 times as opposed to their grunts 20. So lets get our guys who only have been cloned twice to counter.

I think in that age, everyone just gets together and smoke something.



But as you can see from the countless of conflicts in history, we are a race that thrives in war and violence. We can dream of peace, but it's a dream. We attain such peace through conflict and even in peace we still have violence.

I think EVE Online asks some pretty awesome sci-fi questions in that, when we are immortal, will we still fight? will we have peace?

I think that answer is quite obvious, we will still fight over what we think is worth the effort. Even if its just to "kill" the other immortal so we can get a quick rush and/or laugh.

If that isn't enough, IN Eve Online we (capsuleers) are in fact the most vicious and ruthless of humanity. We, the players, answer the question exactly. You know those npc rats we kill in missions, belts, stargates, ect ect? Those ships of various class that we destroy in mass stroves? They are (in fiction) piloted by mortal humans numbered from the tens, to hundreds, to thousands, and even in the millions. If EVE was real life, we would be killing people who have love ones, who have a life outside of the pod. A true life worth dying over, but they only have one chance. Yet we butcher them like they are nothing.

If anything EVE Online could show that, as immortals, our "human condition" would be at its epitome. We would be eternal chaos and hell, without any reason aside from our own.
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-08-12 01:50:37 UTC
Niko medes wrote:
Lord Arakkis wrote:
I mean, I know its just a way of explaining away dying in the game, but you gotta think if we ever evolve in real life to be able to do the same, then what would be the point of fighting when your army and its soldiers can just return to the front lines immediately.

All wars would boil down to a battle of attrition. Who runs out of war machines first. And I get what someone has mentioned about the elite few being better than the rest, but that just leaves the situation where someone says "ok, this guy has only been cloned 2 times as opposed to their grunts 20. So lets get our guys who only have been cloned twice to counter.

I think in that age, everyone just gets together and smoke something.



But as you can see from the countless of conflicts in history, we are a race that thrives in war and violence. We can dream of peace, but it's a dream. We attain such peace through conflict and even in peace we still have violence.

I think EVE Online asks some pretty awesome sci-fi questions in that, when we are immortal, will we still fight? will we have peace?

I think that answer is quite obvious, we will still fight over what we think is worth the effort. Even if its just to "kill" the other immortal so we can get a quick rush and/or laugh.

If that isn't enough, IN Eve Online we (capsuleers) are in fact the most vicious and ruthless of humanity. We, the players, answer the question exactly. You know those npc rats we kill in missions, belts, stargates, ect ect? Those ships of various class that we destroy in mass stroves? They are (in fiction) piloted by mortal humans numbered from the tens, to hundreds, to thousands, and even in the millions. If EVE was real life, we would be killing people who have love ones, who have a life outside of the pod. A true life worth dying over, but they only have one chance. Yet we butcher them like they are nothing.

If anything EVE Online could show that, as immortals, our "human condition" would be at its epitome. We would be eternal chaos and hell, without any reason aside from our own.



Yea, but the human condition has nothing to do with the actually point of the discussion. We arent killing family members or fathers or anyone. We are destroying the clones that their conciousness is in. Hypothetically, a father can simply decide to go home the 430th time hes been pod killed.

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#17 - 2012-08-12 01:55:11 UTC
Are you suggesting every war ever fought was done so purely for the purpose of killing enemy soldiers? What?

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#18 - 2012-08-12 01:56:26 UTC
Lord Arakkis wrote:
Yea, but the human condition has nothing to do with the actually point of the discussion. We arent killing family members or fathers or anyone. We are destroying the clones that their conciousness is in. Hypothetically, a father can simply decide to go home the 430th time hes been pod killed.


Hes talking about the NPCs in space which are not capsulars. The process in which one becomes a capsule pilot can be fatal for some. Dust514 is the new form of immortality which does not seem as deadly. Although the original proto tech had the sleepers trace consciousness left inside it.

Clone armies are not practical, even in EvE terms yet. Even the Large capsule ships are still manned with mortals, just fewer than a standard ship.
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-08-12 01:59:17 UTC
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Lord Arakkis wrote:
Yea, but the human condition has nothing to do with the actually point of the discussion. We arent killing family members or fathers or anyone. We are destroying the clones that their conciousness is in. Hypothetically, a father can simply decide to go home the 430th time hes been pod killed.


Hes talking about the NPCs in space which are not capsulars. The process in which one becomes a capsule pilot can be fatal for some. Dust514 is the new form of immortality which does not seem as deadly. Although the original proto tech had the sleepers trace consciousness left inside it.

Clone armies are not practical, even in EvE terms yet. Even the Large capsule ships are still manned with mortals, just fewer than a standard ship.


Oh this is some fiction I didnt know. I assumed that all entities in the EVE verse had access to the same tech

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#20 - 2012-08-12 02:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
Lord Arakkis wrote:
Oh this is some fiction I didnt know. I assumed that all entities in the EVE verse had access to the same tech


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Capsule_and_the_Clone
http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=28-06-10
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