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The X'th thread about low sec
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-08-12 09:43:56 UTC
ArmyOfMe wrote:
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Interesting. Nerf Null to boost Low without touching High.

Im gonna be honest enough to say that i feel earning isk in this game is to easy in most aspects.
And im not really looking to nerf the income of high sec mission runners, or 0,0 ratters. I quite simply want to remove one income from 0,0 and high sec, and move it to low sec.
The isk income for most players would still be exactly the same as before.


ISK boosts or nerfs will never move people to lowsec. Game mechanics in lowsec are so insanely tilted toward gankers that you'll see people quit before going there in large amounts.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Mag's
Azn Empire
#22 - 2012-08-12 10:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
I know one thing for sure, nerfing the people that live in low is not the answer.
I've always been an advocate, of boosting rather than nerfing. Because when CCP nerfs things, then tend to go overboard and kill instead.

The only thing special about certain low sec areas, are routes of travel. Nerfing that doesn't improve low sec, it simply removes the earning potential, those few low sec areas have.

Adding low sec only minerals may be an answer. But you'll never get the risk averse in, unless it's very high rewards. But if that happens, it'll be very imbalanced and not good for the game. Those risk averse type have high sec and can keep it tbh.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-08-12 10:06:07 UTC
LowSec is about bittervets and tears who don't become delivered huge amounts of helpless carebears from CCP to gank.

There are lots nano gangs just for picking the worst of the worst. In the moment someone is arriving with a proper fleet, most of them are docking up or logging out. Being proud of hanging around gates to highsec I don't wondering that LowSec life is boring. It's about low risk for a green killboard. Even when those LowSec pilots whining about carebearing in empire they have no balls when they have alt chars there to run missions and know nothing about the carebear mechanics in low.

0.0 life is so much better. Alliances fighting about their income, doing what is nescessary to throw the enemy on the ground. There are many field for the pilots to act on: Blob wars, black ops, propaganda, logistics, intelligence. You have to fight or getting cut of from all the fun in 0.0. That's the difference. Low is for fight without any consequences for pilots without balls. You should choose for yourself: Low or 0.0
Syler Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
#24 - 2012-08-12 10:19:05 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
OUTLAW support a lowsec buff that is actually about the people of lowsec, not about trying to make it safer for everyone else.


The idea is similar to one i had awhile ago. Instead of nerfing highsec to get people to live in lowsec, lowsec just needs to be changed all together to make it unique so that people will want to live there.

My idea was to turn lowsec into the ghetto, filled with drugs(boosters) and organized crime. Instead of having empire factions control the space have either pirate factions or drug cartels. Screw having ore in lowsec(could still have grav sites) just boost gas cloud spawn rate or have static gas clouds instead. Also remove GCC, and sec loss after -4.9 in lowsec. Theres more but you get the idea.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2012-08-12 10:19:33 UTC
Nomad I wrote:
..... they have no balls...

.......... for pilots without balls..........
Took some balls, poasting that with an alt. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#26 - 2012-08-12 11:10:05 UTC
Syler Puuntai wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
OUTLAW support a lowsec buff that is actually about the people of lowsec, not about trying to make it safer for everyone else.


The idea is similar to one i had awhile ago. Instead of nerfing highsec to get people to live in lowsec, lowsec just needs to be changed all together to make it unique so that people will want to live there.

My idea was to turn lowsec into the ghetto, filled with drugs(boosters) and organized crime. Instead of having empire factions control the space have either pirate factions or drug cartels. Screw having ore in lowsec(could still have grav sites) just boost gas cloud spawn rate or have static gas clouds instead. Also remove GCC, and sec loss after -4.9 in lowsec. Theres more but you get the idea.
I like most of that, some great ideas. Although there must be a way, for those who wish to go to -10. CCP deem pod kills as the preferred route. But yea, making low sec the organised crime area is a nice idea.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Oki Riverson
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#27 - 2012-08-12 11:10:27 UTC
You know...Low-Sec used to be worse than it is now, once upon a time we had no anomalies, faction warfare or exploration, on top of that we didn't have warp to 0km...It's busier now than it was 6-7 years ago. The gategun changes and some improvements to the rewards in low-sec (ores or whatever less) and it will get there.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#28 - 2012-08-12 11:15:21 UTC
Mag's wrote:

Adding low sec only minerals may be an answer. But you'll never get the risk averse in, unless it's very high rewards. But if that happens, it'll be very imbalanced and not good for the game. Those risk averse type have high sec and can keep it tbh.


To be honest i never expected the high sec mission runners to come to low sec anyhow, as there will never be a good enough reward for them to come there. I am however hoping that the smaller empire based alliances finally will have a reason to take the plunge into low sec to improve skills, get ready for 0,0 or whatever the heck they want


Nomad I wrote:

0.0 life is so much better. Alliances fighting about their income, doing what is nescessary to throw the enemy on the ground.

And there is the problem, low sec has nothing worth fighting over. Wich is what i want changed.



Nomad I wrote:
Low is for fight without any consequences for pilots without balls. You should choose for yourself: Low or 0.0

And how would you know seeing as your in a noob corp?

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Syler Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
#29 - 2012-08-12 11:21:19 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I like most of that, some great ideas. Although there must be a way, for those who wish to go to -10. CCP deem pod kills as the preferred route. But yea, making low sec the organised crime area is a nice idea.


Getting -10 could be done by committing crimes in high-sec, or pod kills but I feel podding in low-sec shouldn't be discouraged. I wanted to say remove sec loss from low completely but that might be a bit extreme.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#30 - 2012-08-12 11:38:19 UTC
Nomad I wrote:
LowSec is about bittervets and tears who don't become delivered huge amounts of helpless carebears from CCP to gank.


Actually, lowsec is about ****-easy logistics that takes no time and is nearly 100% safe and risk-free in an unstabbed industrial that your main flies because you don't need alts even when faction police attack you in highsec. Lowsec is about complaining when you have to travel more than 3 jumps to get a fight. Lowsec is about logging off in a station. Lowsec is about mistakes costing isk rather than time.

So fights in lowsec have the 'non-consequence' of a lossmail, a lost ship, lost fittings -- but you don't have to run and get new implants, you don't spend the next three hours trying to do what you just failed to do after an investment of three hours. You never spend hours scanning down wormholes so that you can jump into them rather than just fly directly to a trade hub. Actually, unless you are carebearing or running a low-traffic gate camp, lowsec requires no regular scheduled stretches of enjoyment-free activity at all. Can you imagine logging into a game so that you can play for a bit, just long enough to see some explosions? Man, how inconsequential a game that would be. As if the glorious and exciting space Opera that we saw in Delve (zzzzzzz oh **** they undocked directly into 4-1 odds?! Cyno in some dreads! I'm still working on my clever propagand poster in another window to spam local with, I don't want to play EVE yet) is going to boost the real-world economy or cure male congenital hairloss or something.

Nomad I wrote:
0.0 life is so much better. Alliances fighting about their income, doing what is nescessary to throw the enemy on the ground. There are many field for the pilots to act on: Blob wars, black ops, propaganda, logistics, intelligence.


F1. Actually pretty cool. Clever propaganda posters to spam local with. Foreplay for masochists. Lame alt-war that pales before James Bond and real-world reconnaissance/HUMINT/etc. both.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-08-12 11:42:27 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
Lame alt-war that pales before James Bond and real-world reconnaissance/HUMINT/etc. both.


Well mining in EVE is a lame exercise in boredom that pales before real-world mining, isn't it.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-08-12 15:36:48 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
Nomad I wrote:
LowSec is about bittervets and tears who don't become delivered huge amounts of helpless carebears from CCP to gank.


Actually, lowsec is about ****-easy logistics that takes no time and is nearly 100% safe and risk-free in an unstabbed industrial that your main flies because you don't need alts even when faction police attack you in highsec. Lowsec is about complaining when you have to travel more than 3 jumps to get a fight. Lowsec is about logging off in a station. Lowsec is about mistakes costing isk rather than time.

.


And avoiding consequences by buying ISK for ships with plexes until the $ are empty. That's boring. Every amateur is able to live in low. In the worst case he pays $ for his mistakes. When you loose sov in 0.0 you are basically out of the game.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#33 - 2012-08-12 16:21:32 UTC
Nomad I wrote:


And avoiding consequences by buying ISK for ships with plexes until the $ are empty. That's boring. Every amateur is able to live in low. In the worst case he pays $ for his mistakes. When you loose sov in 0.0 you are basically out of the game.

Roll
Right....
Took me like 20 sec to realise your just trolling

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#34 - 2012-08-12 16:25:36 UTC
Nomad I wrote:
When you loose sov in 0.0 you are basically out of the game.
How does one 'loose' sov, exactly?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-08-12 23:24:11 UTC
Highsec is safer due to NPC control.
Nullsec is safer due to player control.
Wormholes are "safer" because of local-chat invisibility and shifting entrances.

Lowsec starts with little safety, and no way to control or increase it. It's faction-enforced risk.

Syler Puuntai wrote:
My idea was to turn lowsec into the ghetto, filled with drugs(boosters) and organized crime. Instead of having empire factions control the space have either pirate factions or drug cartels.

I agree with this. Low is the seedy back-alley of empire space where the cops rarely go.

I'm not as focused on the risk/reward aspect as I am lowsec's "identity." I don't think the game should have a smooth gradient of risk/reward based on area. If it did, low would have all the best stuff, but that's a boring way to solve the problem. Low needs to be its own thing, with its own gameplay styles, just like high/null/wh.

Occasionally plays sober
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-08-12 23:46:12 UTC
Syler Puuntai wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
OUTLAW support a lowsec buff that is actually about the people of lowsec, not about trying to make it safer for everyone else.


The idea is similar to one i had awhile ago. Instead of nerfing highsec to get people to live in lowsec, lowsec just needs to be changed all together to make it unique so that people will want to live there.

My idea was to turn lowsec into the ghetto, filled with drugs(boosters) and organized crime. Instead of having empire factions control the space have either pirate factions or drug cartels. Screw having ore in lowsec(could still have grav sites) just boost gas cloud spawn rate or have static gas clouds instead. Also remove GCC, and sec loss after -4.9 in lowsec. Theres more but you get the idea.


This sounds awesome if done right.

+1

James315 for CSM 8!
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#37 - 2012-09-08 12:59:29 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:
Syler Puuntai wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
OUTLAW support a lowsec buff that is actually about the people of lowsec, not about trying to make it safer for everyone else.


The idea is similar to one i had awhile ago. Instead of nerfing highsec to get people to live in lowsec, lowsec just needs to be changed all together to make it unique so that people will want to live there.

My idea was to turn lowsec into the ghetto, filled with drugs(boosters) and organized crime. Instead of having empire factions control the space have either pirate factions or drug cartels. Screw having ore in lowsec(could still have grav sites) just boost gas cloud spawn rate or have static gas clouds instead. Also remove GCC, and sec loss after -4.9 in lowsec. Theres more but you get the idea.


This sounds awesome if done right.

+1

+2, though id like to add some changes to his idea P

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2012-09-08 13:15:21 UTC
X'th? No, I'm fairly certain that more than nine threads have preceded this one…
Lilianna Star wrote:
I do have to ask: Why is low sec still more dangerous than null?
Because, unlike null, you can't lock it down without incurring massive losses in flexibility and options that void the benefits of doing business there.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-09-08 13:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Cyprus Black wrote:
What does lowsec offer that highsec, nullsec and wormholes do not?
It's also the least safe of all four areas of space.
High risk + Low reward = broken aspect of the game.


High risk? -extreme for people trying to do stuff over there, absolutely not or little for those already living there.

Low reward? -hell no, they already have too much rewards for the content they are able to create since the only thing most are capable of is smartbombing gates and brainlessly shoot everything on grid.
If you want more people doing stuff in low sec it's up to entities living there to make it happen. But those should stop complaining because they're too lazy or unable to create their content.

Stop being lazy, stop being bitter arrogant moaning and whining because CCP doesn't hold your hand. It's up to you to bring people there, learn them to live there, learn them to win isk there and learn them to help you defend those zones you live in.


EDIT: Ho and the SS gain stuff is another little girl thing, if you want no consequences for shooting everything on your grid move to null.
Think about Eve natural selection: adapt or die
If you can't adapt to low sec you don't belong there, if you can't create your content in low sec you don't belong there neither and you're better moving to some other part of the game or another game instead of endlessly put faults in high sec players.

brb
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-09-08 14:31:42 UTC
Again i read about raising income in lowsec/nerfing highsec ...
... and again history repeats itself because that's not gonna help move people into lowsec ...
... just as CCP has shown already over and over again.

*shakeshead*