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hulk ccp
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Pipa Porto
#101 - 2012-09-04 07:38:19 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
holy crap, they did change it to 5%! That's messed up! As if hulks weren't squishy already!

People used to destroy hulks with 10m isk catalysts. They really need a EHP buff!


They also gave the Hulk a raw HP buff. The result is that the Hulk tanks more now than it did before, by about 3k EHP.

This is a conceptual failure since the goal of the rebalance was to make the answer to: "what should I use to be able to tank suicide ganks;" "use a Skiff." Right now, that's most certainly not the answer.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-09-04 08:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
They also gave the Hulk a raw HP buff. The result is that the Hulk tanks more now than it did before, by about 3k EHP.

This is a conceptual failure since the goal of the rebalance was to make the answer to: "what should I use to be able to tank suicide ganks;" "use a Skiff." Right now, that's most certainly not the answer.


Are you sure it's EHP buff? Passive recharge is locked to 5 now for all mining barges and exhumers, no matter how much you have shield HP.

I would like to see that 20k+ EHP dual MLU fit for Hulk!

Edit: Closest I can get with my bad Pyfa skills is 18,4k and that's against RF EMP.
Pipa Porto
#103 - 2012-09-04 10:28:39 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
They also gave the Hulk a raw HP buff. The result is that the Hulk tanks more now than it did before, by about 3k EHP.

This is a conceptual failure since the goal of the rebalance was to make the answer to: "what should I use to be able to tank suicide ganks;" "use a Skiff." Right now, that's most certainly not the answer.


Are you sure it's EHP buff? Passive recharge is locked to 5 now for all mining barges and exhumers, no matter how much you have shield HP.

I would like to see that 20k+ EHP dual MLU fit for Hulk!

Edit: Closest I can get with my bad Pyfa skills is 18,4k and that's against RF EMP.


I was talking about the tanked Hulk which now sports a stiff ~40k EHP tank.

But, since you asked,

22.7k vs Omni. 23k vs Void. 20.9k vs EMP. 27.8k vs Quake. 21.8k vs PP.

No Implants.

[Hulk, Hisec Mininh]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-09-04 13:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
22.7k vs Omni. 23k vs Void. 20.9k vs EMP. 27.8k vs Quake. 21.8k vs PP.

No Implants.

[Hulk, Hisec Mininh]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I


With 6% shield capacity implant, it's still missing ~2k EHP from those numbers.

Only way to get close to those numbers is actually to use different rigs and implants:

[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Zainou 'Gypsy' Electronics EE-605
Zainou 'Gnome' Shield Management SM-705

Ok, since you claimed it can tank 40k against Void like the old Hulk...
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#105 - 2012-09-04 14:41:41 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Not only that but to get the old Cargo Hulks big capacity you lose the MLU's. The Mackinaw can fit up to 3 giving it about the same yield as the Hulk with more capacity then it could ever fit.


with 2 MLU II and T2 crystals in a hulk with perfect skills and no booster, it mines 1,547 m^3 per strip miner for a total of 4,641 m^3 per cycle

3 MLU II and T2 crystals in a mackinaw with perfect skills and no booster, makes it mine 2,008 m^3 per strip miner for a total of 4,016 m^3 per cycle

TL;DR
the hulk is still 15% better than the mack in yield even with the third MLU II


True, but the point many many miners are missing, your self included it seems, is that many miners, like the OP it seems, did not fit their hulks for max yield. They fit for max cargo. no MLU's, they used cargo expander II's.

The new mack with 3 MLU II's out mines the old max cargo HULK. And has significantly more room for ORE than the old max cargo HULK had.

Personally I still use HULK's as I run 3 with ORCA support, But for Solo miners who used to fit their HULKS for max cargo, the new Mack is much better.

In fact without a second account for hauling the HULK sucks bad. Even with the second account you are better off running two Macks. two macks gives you way more yield than a single hulk with a mining alt, even after factoring in time to run to station to dump ORE.
Pipa Porto
#106 - 2012-09-04 23:18:46 UTC
I'm not responsible for your issues with EFT.

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Ok, since you claimed it can tank 40k against Void like the old Hulk...


42.8k Void

Now, are you going to go ahead and follow through with proving the many, many claims you have left unsupported in various threads?

[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Internal Force Field Array I

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Engineering EG-605

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-09-21 12:28:15 UTC
How about a bonus for a the Hulk and Covetor for the one thing mining ships need in a fleet op with Orca support now - increased range for the rock scanner ;)
Solo miners don't need it (especially if the off-site boost gets removed), but for those >25km range stripminers, it's damn annoying to have a scanner range of just 22,5km.
Pipa Porto
#108 - 2012-09-21 18:24:53 UTC
Sati Kerensky wrote:
How about a bonus for a the Hulk and Covetor for the one thing mining ships need in a fleet op with Orca support now - increased range for the rock scanner ;)
Solo miners don't need it (especially if the off-site boost gets removed), but for those >25km range stripminers, it's damn annoying to have a scanner range of just 22,5km.


Orca:
500% bonus to Survey Scanner range

FC's options with the fleet interface:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Fleet_options#Broadcast_system


Or just move in closer, and stop whining about getting your ships buffed.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-09-21 18:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
No response from OP.

I'm calling troll on this thread.

It's on it's sixth page now, so 7/10.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-09-22 01:24:33 UTC
Just read through all the pages, I'm bumping it to a 9/10.

Well done. Nice execution, subtle without any need for further reinforcement. Pushed the right buttons with the right amount of pressure.
Sati Kerensky
Perkone
Caldari State
#111 - 2012-09-22 03:38:19 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sati Kerensky wrote:
How about a bonus for a the Hulk and Covetor for the one thing mining ships need in a fleet op with Orca support now - increased range for the rock scanner ;)
Solo miners don't need it (especially if the off-site boost gets removed), but for those >25km range stripminers, it's damn annoying to have a scanner range of just 22,5km.


Orca:
500% bonus to Survey Scanner range

FC's options with the fleet interface:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Fleet_options#Broadcast_system


Or just move in closer, and stop whining about getting your ships buffed.

I seriously doubt you've ever mined efficiently since that includes stopping a cycle at the right moment, so you waste at most a few seconds, also usually one ship or even just one stripminer on a single rock. Orca scans and broadcasts are horrible for that.
But nah, again a miner who posts a suggestion for a tiny useful boost, it's not about yield or tank, but let's call it whining anyways Roll
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#112 - 2012-09-22 04:38:08 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Not only that but to get the old Cargo Hulks big capacity you lose the MLU's. The Mackinaw can fit up to 3 giving it about the same yield as the Hulk with more capacity then it could ever fit.


with 2 MLU II and T2 crystals in a hulk with perfect skills and no booster, it mines 1,547 m^3 per strip miner for a total of 4,641 m^3 per cycle

3 MLU II and T2 crystals in a mackinaw with perfect skills and no booster, makes it mine 2,008 m^3 per strip miner for a total of 4,016 m^3 per cycle

TL;DR
the hulk is still 15% better than the mack in yield even with the third MLU II


True, but the point many many miners are missing, your self included it seems, is that many miners, like the OP it seems, did not fit their hulks for max yield. They fit for max cargo. no MLU's, they used cargo expander II's.

The new mack with 3 MLU II's out mines the old max cargo HULK. And has significantly more room for ORE than the old max cargo HULK had.

Personally I still use HULK's as I run 3 with ORCA support, But for Solo miners who used to fit their HULKS for max cargo, the new Mack is much better.

In fact without a second account for hauling the HULK sucks bad. Even with the second account you are better off running two Macks. two macks gives you way more yield than a single hulk with a mining alt, even after factoring in time to run to station to dump ORE.


Did you fail at math or somthing? Max skills a hulk still outmites a mack max skills and max MLU fit. Just jetcan mine, any miner who docks up every hold full of ore is an idiot and obviously doesnt care about making isk. jetcan mine then scoop every 2 hours, have a toon swap from hulk to orca and max it will take is 5-10min. And your back to mining.
Pipa Porto
#113 - 2012-09-22 05:09:15 UTC
Sati Kerensky wrote:
I seriously doubt you've ever mined efficiently since that includes stopping a cycle at the right moment, so you waste at most a few seconds, also usually one ship or even just one stripminer on a single rock. Orca scans and broadcasts are horrible for that.
But nah, again a miner who posts a suggestion for a tiny useful boost, it's not about yield or tank, but let's call it whining anyways Roll


What does your proposal improve? It improves the amount of ore you return to the station from the belt in a given amount of time. You know what we call that? Yield.

Again, you can also move closer. And also again, stop whining about your newly buffed ships.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#114 - 2012-09-22 05:46:21 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sati Kerensky wrote:
I seriously doubt you've ever mined efficiently since that includes stopping a cycle at the right moment, so you waste at most a few seconds, also usually one ship or even just one stripminer on a single rock. Orca scans and broadcasts are horrible for that.
But nah, again a miner who posts a suggestion for a tiny useful boost, it's not about yield or tank, but let's call it whining anyways Roll


What does your proposal improve? It improves the amount of ore you return to the station from the belt in a given amount of time. You know what we call that? Yield.

Again, you can also move closer. And also again, stop whining about your newly buffed ships.


I don't too often agree with Pipa, but quoting this one for truth 100%.

Love the changes to mining barges, I have a different boat for each type of mining im doing now (active in fleet, afk while eating dinner, semi-afk solo while working, etc). Its been pure win.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Matrim Fidard
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2012-09-23 16:42:43 UTC
i just hopped in a barge a few days before the rebalance. so with no real previous experience with them and i love them. i think ccp was successful in the rebalance. its not first second third best, they each have role to play. with a corpmate inhulk me in retriever we mine belts hard with just 2 people. just you, go with retriever. but to me mining drones seem completely useless now with yields so much better on procurer and retriever
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#116 - 2012-09-23 18:52:26 UTC
Matrim Fidard wrote:
i just hopped in a barge a few days before the rebalance. so with no real previous experience with them and i love them. i think ccp was successful in the rebalance. its not first second third best, they each have role to play. with a corpmate inhulk me in retriever we mine belts hard with just 2 people. just you, go with retriever. but to me mining drones seem completely useless now with yields so much better on procurer and retriever



More yield is still more yield. Mining drones will always have a place to the min / maxer. ;)


hmm... although it would be nice if one of the ships gave a drone mining bonus.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly