These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

PI: highsec vs nullsec vs lowsec

Author
Jacob Heart
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-08-10 21:20:46 UTC
My first foray into PI began about a week ago. Rather enjoy it, but my big plan came to a grinding halt as my t2 production item cost a LOT more to ship from the planet to the customs office than i was able to sell it for. Obviously Synthetic Synapses weren't a solid choice and I began more research.

The big question I have is....what impact does the security have on PI? In my reading I have found a lot of hints and suggestion, but no solid information. Can anyone break it down for me?

Thank you!
Jacob
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#2 - 2012-08-10 21:32:45 UTC
Generally speaking, planets are going to provide more P0 raw materials the lower the security level gets. Naturally, retreiving your stuff can be a little more challenging than it is in Hi-Sec.

Additionally, Null and (I'm pretty sure) Low Sec planets can have their Customs Offices blown up and replaced by Player Owned Customs Offices (POCOs). The corp that owns the POCO can set their own tax rate, which can be lower than the 10% rate that is charged in Hi-Sec but which can be astronomically higher, particularly if the Corp owning the POCO is using the planet for producing fuel blocks. With that said, some POCOs are setup strictly for profit and can offer reasonable rates if the corp owning the POCO wants tennants and the planet is well stocked.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."

Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-10 22:31:16 UTC
Jacob Heart wrote:
My first foray into PI began about a week ago. Rather enjoy it, but my big plan came to a grinding halt as my t2 production item cost a LOT more to ship from the planet to the customs office than i was able to sell it for. Obviously Synthetic Synapses weren't a solid choice and I began more research.

The big question I have is....what impact does the security have on PI? In my reading I have found a lot of hints and suggestion, but no solid information. Can anyone break it down for me?

Thank you!
Jacob


Low / null / wh planets generally have higher yields of materials while at the same time have the obvious issues of security and transport. You will also need to look at for what the tax rates are set by the corp/alliance who own the poco's. Some will be set to 100%, or higher than 10% which is really the only reason to do non-high sec PI. Most likely you'll still be paying 10% tax, maybe 5% if you're lucky, so moving wont really help when it comes to taxes.

Instead you should focus on less importing and exporting to planets to increase your profits. Generally if you are in highsec you are better off making P1 materials on your planets, exporting and importing to a factory planet to make P3 and P4. You will make more isk selling P2 then P3 if you are doing the 3 exports 2 imports. But if you do P1 and import to make p3 (skipping the P2 steps) P3 materials will make about 10% - 20% more (with robotics its 10,000isk more).
Shou Kaukonen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-08-10 23:11:24 UTC
another important thing to be aware of is that, while high vs low vs null does have an effect on how much a planet can give you, the specific sec status seems to as well. From personal experience, it breaks down thus: you may not be able to tell the difference between a .4 and a .3, but you will absolutely be able to tell the difference between a .4 and a .1. High sec worlds typically don't offer enough resources to keep even 1 advanced processor producing p2 24 hrs a day without a truly incredible degree of micromanaging, and most won't be able to cut it no matter how much you fiddle with extractors, which sharply limits your potential profit.

I'm sure I'm not the first to tell you this, but you should think about high-sec production using pure factory worlds (no resource extraction). It's easier to deal with than the shenanigans you'll endure trying to get in and out of hostile space with valuable cargo, and trying to find worlds that are a) the type(s) you need, b) not taxed into oblivion by their POCO, and c) not lousy with pirates at all hours of the day and night.

Customs fees bit me in the ass when I was learning PI, too. For reference, the following link will help you figure out in advance what your fees are going to add up to:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_interaction

the 'taxes' section includes the base prices that are used to calculate the actual amount of tax for each tier of PI good, so the % tax for a p4 will be the % of 1,350,000, for example. Keep in mind, CONCORD-owned high-sec offices only have a 10% tax rate that never changes, so that can be a good baseline to use to figure out if a PI venture will be profitable or not. Just for the love of all things holy, run all your numbers before you commit to a PI rebuild. I once ate a loss of about 70,000,000 because I didn't do all my homework before setting up a PI network.

To finish answering your original question, reports vary a bit, but I mostly hear that w-space has even better PI yields than null, though not by a huge margin - either will be better than low, and drastically better than high. Logistics becomes a very serious problem, however. Without a wormhole POS, w-space PI is almost certainly beyond your reach for now (indeed, the only reason most people bother with w-space PI is to feed starbases). Null is doable, but getting your goods to a place where they will actually sell will be a big hassle. There are player-owned hauling corps who offer jump-freighter services for getting your goods to market (I used Black Frog when I was in low-sec, but I think the cheapest atm is PUSH industries - in any case, both are reliable and professional), but the cheapest I'm aware of this service running is 45,000,000 a trip right now, so be prepared to get VERY good at running gate camps, over and over and over again...or to write off the cost of jump-freighter hauling as a business expense.
Jacob Heart
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-08-11 01:03:47 UTC
Thank you guys for all the information! I find myself truly fascinated with PI and intend to continue delving into it even though profit compared to my mining seems very minor. I think the Eve community is the best I have every run into.

-Jacob
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#6 - 2012-08-12 13:23:23 UTC
Shou Kaukonen wrote:
High sec worlds typically don't offer enough resources to keep even 1 advanced processor producing p2 24 hrs a day without a truly incredible degree of micromanaging, and most won't be able to cut it no matter how much you fiddle with extractors, which sharply limits your potential profit.


That is highly incorrect information. If you set up the PI in a .5 system then most profitable planets will be able to set up a single p2 factory with ease, as long as you have cc upgrades 3. Some times even only need to log in once every 2-3 days to restart the extractors.
Jacob Heart
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-08-13 12:52:36 UTC
Denal Umbra wrote:
Shou Kaukonen wrote:
High sec worlds typically don't offer enough resources to keep even 1 advanced processor producing p2 24 hrs a day without a truly incredible degree of micromanaging, and most won't be able to cut it no matter how much you fiddle with extractors, which sharply limits your potential profit.


That is highly incorrect information. If you set up the PI in a .5 system then most profitable planets will be able to set up a single p2 factory with ease, as long as you have cc upgrades 3. Some times even only need to log in once every 2-3 days to restart the extractors.


Thanks for the update Denal. I am finding that I can run one as you say. Later this week or early next I will have my ducks in a row to attempt setting up a home in a -.1. *fingers crossed*
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#8 - 2012-08-13 13:10:22 UTC
The lower the security, the more resources, generally speaking. There are variations and you could certainly encounter resource-rich high sec planets and resource-poor lowsec planets.

Low/Null/WH planets have the added benefit of POCOs. This leads to the potential to low/no tax PI if you belong to or are friendly with a corp that owns the POCO. High sec PI is locked in at 10% tax.

The other downside to high sec PI is that the planets are open to everyone, meaning that you'll frequently have competition for resource hot spots, especially in heavily populated systems.

Granted, Low/null/WH PI does have an element of danger, but I feel it is worth the risk.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Jacob Heart
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-08-13 13:14:39 UTC
LOL....I just saw your signature and it is so perfect for me. I named my low sec running bestower "Mouse". Just waiting for cloak IV before we head out.