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a real gallente boost!
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Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#21 - 2012-08-11 21:29:24 UTC
Does anybody feel that the amarr and the gallente got their scripts backwards? Lemme illustrate what I mean.

An amarr and gallente ship are going to go into battle against each other. Both are using short range guns. The amarr will be able to start shooting their guns effectivly long before the gallente can, just by using standard ammo. Then, by the time the gallente ship gets close enough to use their blasters effectively, they're half dead.
Attica
Indigo Corp
#22 - 2012-08-11 21:34:16 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
This is actually a reasonable idea TBH.
Make the gallente rep bonus apply to RR (maybe with half effect?) and it would go a long way to making them useful in fleets.

Hell, would love to have a reason to actually use my astarte...

PS: under no circumstances should this ever apply to shield boost bonused ships.



This.



this this

Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish.
Commander Spurty
#23 - 2012-08-11 22:10:30 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Does anybody feel that the amarr and the gallente got their scripts backwards? Lemme illustrate what I mean.

An amarr and gallente ship are going to go into battle against each other. Both are using short range guns. The amarr will be able to start shooting their guns effectivly long before the gallente can, just by using standard ammo. Then, by the time the gallente ship gets close enough to use their blasters effectively, they're half dead.



Gallente get remote sensor damp bonus

You obviously have no idea why

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#24 - 2012-08-11 22:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Red Teufel
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Does anybody feel that the amarr and the gallente got their scripts backwards? Lemme illustrate what I mean.

An amarr and gallente ship are going to go into battle against each other. Both are using short range guns. The amarr will be able to start shooting their guns effectivly long before the gallente can, just by using standard ammo. Then, by the time the gallente ship gets close enough to use their blasters effectively, they're half dead.


change base locking range of drones on gall ships to 75km...gallente fixed.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#25 - 2012-08-12 16:02:37 UTC
by changing locking range and stuff like that you affect all ships in game... what we are doing here is looking for a bonus just to gal ships... and making the Armour repair bonus work for incoming remote reps would do it nicely!

example one large amour rep II does 384 ever 4.5 seconds. which means 85.33 dps tank per rep.

now if you include a 25% to that 384 you end up with 480 every 4.5 seconds which means 106.66 dps tank...

so on a standard tanked brutix:

for every remote large armour rep II you are looking at 302 dps tank per rep.... but if you include my suggestion you are now looking at 378 dps tank per rep.

[Brutix, Brutix fit]

Armor Explosive Hardener II
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II
Heavy Ion Blaster II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5



IMO because armour tanking your ship makes it slow you cant really speed tank it unless you shield tank it... So having the increased rep amount makes sence and should bring it inline with its other racial comparions being ammar calari and minnie... with ammar and caldari being good due to 25% to base resists and minnie being good due to speed tanks...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kylthana
Firestar Armory
#26 - 2012-08-12 18:37:28 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
indeed... this was alluded to in the csm notes its only logical that after the ship balance if these ships do maintain a repair bonus that it would be upped to the new 10% standard...


Maybe you shouldn't infer that things in the CSM notes are going to happen.

CCP Greyscale wrote:
The CSM minutes are *NOT* a devblog, please don't treat them as such


Quote taken from this thread Sentry Tower change discussions
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2012-08-12 18:43:43 UTC
The problem with armour blaster boats is speed. While the current fast sheild ships dominate doctrins the close range armour boats will struggle.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#28 - 2012-08-12 20:21:26 UTC
Kylthana wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
indeed... this was alluded to in the csm notes its only logical that after the ship balance if these ships do maintain a repair bonus that it would be upped to the new 10% standard...


Maybe you shouldn't infer that things in the CSM notes are going to happen.

CCP Greyscale wrote:
The CSM minutes are *NOT* a devblog, please don't treat them as such


Quote taken from this thread Sentry Tower change discussions



no what ccp is saying is they like to get ideas out to the community early so we can discuss them and then they can measure them for merit...

which is why i started this thread as there are portions of the game i would like to see improved and hopefully we can generate some good ideas and have them implemented...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#29 - 2012-08-12 20:23:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The problem with armour blaster boats is speed. While the current fast sheild ships dominate doctrins the close range armour boats will struggle.


indeed but remember there is also the other half of HYBRID weapons and thats railguns... to fix them i would increase max targeting range to 350 km and fix on grid probing... as for mediums they need a slight boost...


There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-08-12 20:47:21 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The problem with armour blaster boats is speed. While the current fast sheild ships dominate doctrins the close range armour boats will struggle.


indeed but remember there is also the other half of HYBRID weapons and thats railguns... to fix them i would increase max targeting range to 350 km and fix on grid probing... as for mediums they need a slight boost...



I'd say make it 500KM so you can actually have massive fights with so many people there. also, don't bother with the on grid probing, just don't allow on-grid warp of any type.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#31 - 2012-08-12 21:00:00 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The problem with armour blaster boats is speed. While the current fast sheild ships dominate doctrins the close range armour boats will struggle.


indeed but remember there is also the other half of HYBRID weapons and thats railguns... to fix them i would increase max targeting range to 350 km and fix on grid probing... as for mediums they need a slight boost...

There is a "hard limit" on locking range. No matter what modules you use, no ship can target something beyond 249km.

Also... extra range will do diddly squat to help railguns. Especially when things will just warp off after the first volley or two. THAT'S why artillery is currently more popular for sniping.
Granted... you could get dedicated tackle to pin the target down... but realistically, it would be easier, simpler, and less risky to have that tackle also in arty ships and just wipe out the target before he/she even thinks about warping.

Plus, artillery operates best at sub-150km ranges... too short range for probes to give you a decent on-grid warp-in.
Plus ships that are designed to use arty tend to be some of the fastest in the game.

But I digress.

The main flaw with Gallente gunboats is that slapping the shortest ranged weapon system together with a form of tanking that slows a down ships defeats the strengths of both.

How did you Veterans start?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#32 - 2012-08-12 21:37:06 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The problem with armour blaster boats is speed. While the current fast sheild ships dominate doctrins the close range armour boats will struggle.


indeed but remember there is also the other half of HYBRID weapons and thats railguns... to fix them i would increase max targeting range to 350 km and fix on grid probing... as for mediums they need a slight boost...

There is a "hard limit" on locking range. No matter what modules you use, no ship can target something beyond 249km.

Also... extra range will do diddly squat to help railguns. Especially when things will just warp off after the first volley or two. THAT'S why artillery is currently more popular for sniping.
Granted... you could get dedicated tackle to pin the target down... but realistically, it would be easier, simpler, and less risky to have that tackle also in arty ships and just wipe out the target before he/she even thinks about warping.

Plus, artillery operates best at sub-150km ranges... too short range for probes to give you a decent on-grid warp-in.
Plus ships that are designed to use arty tend to be some of the fastest in the game.

But I digress.

The main flaw with Gallente gunboats is that slapping the shortest ranged weapon system together with a form of tanking that slows a down ships defeats the strengths of both.


read again its not max range for rails its max target range from 250 to 350 km... there are setups with rails that can shoot further then they can target due to some lame game mechanic...

also one of the ideas i would like to see for hybrid ammo is for a reason to use non antimater and tech II ammo...

like make uranium have a large alpha boost but slow down the rate of fire... or plutonium getting a rate of fire bonus but looseing out on some tracking...

what this would do is open up how hybrids can be used...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#33 - 2012-08-12 22:49:31 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
by changing locking range and stuff like that you affect all ships in game... what we are doing here is looking for a bonus just to gal ships... and making the Armour repair bonus work for incoming remote reps would do it nicely!


I didn't say across the board just gallente ships only would have an increase in the drone control range. that way gallente would be another fleet comp for large scale gangs.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#34 - 2012-08-18 15:48:07 UTC
bump

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Lili Lu
#35 - 2012-08-18 16:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
It's fine for pve, but 10% active armor boosting does not alleviate the problem of needing multiple lows for reppers and even mids slots for cap boosters with pvp. It does not fix the active armor repping problem.

Converting the gallente armor bonus to an armor hp bonus something like what the Auguror gets would be better. And adding a buff to "regerative" platings and membranes would help the current relative state of armor tanking as against shield tanking. Then it wouldn't always be fit plates and watch your mobility go into the toilet. Would be super awesome if they would even add a very slow actual regen with those mods such that if you sat ata pos or ss you could actually self repair over an extensive period of time.

As for the rr idea I really feel the only ships that should get a bonus for it are the logistics ships. One ship not doing everything and preserving roles and all that.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#36 - 2012-08-18 16:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Roderick Grey
I'd like to see a railgun damage buff and/or a speed bufff to some/all Gallente hulls, It's frustrating that the only effective weapon system (blasters) has such a small range, and when a vast majority of Gallente ships are armor tanked it really is a poor combination.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-08-18 19:06:55 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
So from the changes in the frigs its logical to presume that we are going to see 10% bonus to internal amour repair amount per lev applied to ships like the brutix and hyperion...


Is that so...


indeed... this was alluded to in the csm notes its only logical that after the ship balance if these ships do maintain a repair bonus that it would be upped to the new 10% standard...

by making this bonus also apply to external incoming remote repair...

this would give gallente a real fleet ship lineup... to which they are severely lacking atm...


The 10% standard per level would still not be enough because armor :drawbacks: and number of mods requirement (gallente specifically) and thus still be better shield fitted than armor fitted unless specific cases and snowflake fits.

As long as you can get a much better mobility/tank with shied 3 rigs +2hardeners+1extender while still fitting 1 DCU there's actually almost no point on fitting armor stuff unless triple plated/trimarked resist bonus hulls, AHAC ins some specific encounters and some solo/very small gang. WH's are another discussion since armor/guns and ships get some effects changed or greatly boosted and thus not an example for balance or discussion.

Your Brutix will still ONLY rep 320Hp+50% with BC 5 (without rigs/boosters/other form of boost), Drake will get a +25%resists witch makes reps efficiency more interesting. Cyclone gets already a nice rep boost that got completely OP with the arrival of ASB's.

So, no. 10% change alone will do nothing much for active armor tanking other then give you the feeling it's slightly better but never the same felling you have when you used Cyclones before the ASB and after the arrival of ASB's.
That trolling mod/skill (RAH) is just totally useless and can barely get better without stepping on energised platings/platings/hardeners.

At this point we're at light years of making active armor tanking interesting, all it has been done is strap some ductape here and there but nothing really viable.

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-08-18 19:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
MeBiatch wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The problem with armour blaster boats is speed. While the current fast sheild ships dominate doctrins the close range armour boats will struggle.


indeed but remember there is also the other half of HYBRID weapons and thats railguns... to fix them i would increase max targeting range to 350 km and fix on grid probing... as for mediums they need a slight boost...




Railgun BC/BS boats (Gallente), are slow'ish at targeting (for ships supposed to use dampers scripted targeting speed it's a joke heh, if you can't target your enemy before he does...), and have a targeting range quite silly.

When it comes to medium rails/blasters it's even worst. Rails have a really lol dps, heavy PG/cap activation requirements, blasters need moar range and tracking (those still miss while in optimal Shocked )

Now, add to the above armor rigs/plates drawbacks lol active tanking and you get something not desirable. Doesn't mean it can't succeed because it does but that's exactly where the problem is.
What's the real Gallente rails and blasters philosophy and what's wrong in actual ships/mods/guns that don't fit in? -my answer is pretty clear: almost everything

If you take away Adestria/Proteus/Serpentis ships(not being exactly Gallente), Gallente has little to nothing interesting in their BC/BS ship line. Well, new T3 BC does fine indeed...shield fitted !

Edit: If and I really mean "IF" Amarr is more about triple plated slowish armor resist bonus hulls and Gallente the faster version relying in high dmg very close range then I have a real problem with Energised platings/resist platings/hardeners effects on Gallente hulls as I have with webs not getting range bonus on hulls using the shortest range weapon system and relying on scrams with... 9Km Op range when it's pretty clear that no one on his right mind will commit his ship unless a good back up.
With higher base resist bonus or bonus effects to those mods and inability to fit plates gallente would win in speed while keeping a decent tank (via higher resist profile) and then probably use lol armor reps...

Even then would be a mess without name.

brb
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