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DEV RESPONCE REQUESTED: Amarr Rookie ships and cynos

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Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#61 - 2012-08-10 14:41:52 UTC
Amarr ships need a "slave hold" like the mining barges "ore hold"


NOT ENOUGH SPACE, TOO MANY MINMATARRRRRRRRR

who cares about cynos, i just want to fly around and make my slaves sea-sick
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#62 - 2012-08-10 15:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Mag's wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
The issue is one of balance.......
...snip...
But my IQ can't take taking down at your level anymore.
It is one of balance and cyno usage is not part of that equation. I know with that high IQ of yours, you may have issues understanding this. But the ship was, is and never will be, balanced around cyno usage.

Thank you for showing us your massive intellect and excellent use of English. It's been a pleasure for all. Now go buy yourself a cargo expander and shhhh, there's a good lad.



No ship is balanced around cynoing. The only ship that tries is recons and they are possibly the worst ship to use as a cyno. This also wouldn't be a problem if it was a ship that was a choice made by the player. The reason that ships have these things called slots is so that they can be configured in what ever way the player wants.

You are the only one arguing about the ship mechanics and ship balance. Considering how many strawmen you are putting up, one has to wonder if you are considering planting corn in that bullshit as well. The issue isn't with ship balance. Once again you have made up an argument which I never made and then gleefully sperged against it. Your ability for make believe is astonishing!

The balance issue is due to the way these ships are acquired. They are not built and bought, they are generated as a result of the racial choice made by the player when they started the game. They have no way to change it other than to bio-mass the character and the design is supposed to be that there is no difference or detriment to choosing one race over the other. This change means that no longer holds true.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#63 - 2012-08-10 15:33:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Ayeipsia
I cry shenanigans on your assertion. The rookie ships have always been unbalanced. The gallante ship has a 10m drone bay and bandwidth. This gives the gallante a severe advantage in combat, especially if you can field t2 drones. Given that thus has always been the case, your assertion of the ships being equal is invalid.

Additionally, these ships can now be bought, which contradicts a premise of your argument.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#64 - 2012-08-10 15:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
I cry shenanigans on your assertion. The rookie ships have always been unbalanced. The gallante ship has a 10m drone bay and bandwidth. This gives the gallante a severe advantage in combat, especially if you can field t2 drones. Given that thus has always been the case, your assertion of the ships being equal is invalid.


I am not arguing about ship balance. You can continue talking about ship balance if you want, but just because it has "balance" in the title doesn't mean it has anything at all to do with what I am talking about.

If they were JUST bought I would agree with you. The problem is that they are created automatically and can't be changed. If they were just purchased, there wouldn't be an issue because then the player could choose any Rookie ship they wanted based on what they needed it for. Rookie ships are created based on a racial choice that is made before the player even enters the game world and the only way to change it is to bio-mass the character.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#65 - 2012-08-10 16:12:55 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
words.

Welp. Those that will use rookie ships as a cyno would be using a secondary charactor. A new players main pilot would be the one flying the cap. If the least effort rookie ship was wanted, they would have played long enough to know what they want.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#66 - 2012-08-10 16:14:17 UTC
But your point is the recent change created a disparity between ships. My point is that this disparity has always existed, therefore your argument crying for the removal of this disparity is invalid. There never was a point when all rookie ships were equal, players always had to be concerned, and nothing has changed with the recent patch. In other words, you ate trying to make an argument that has no need for existing.
Ghost Frog
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-08-10 16:29:43 UTC
Quote:
Ghost Frog wrote:ps3ud0nym wrote:
garbled warbling

cynos take almost exactly 5 days to train.


You need Cyno IV to fit the correct amount of fuel to use a Rookie ship, with the exception of the Impairor. With the Impairor you will need cyno V, which is quite a bit longer than 5 days. That or bring cargo expanders. The headaches and extra logistics can be avoided by simply rolling another race and training the Amarr ship skills.

You can even still buy the Impairor off the market if you really want to fly it.

Point taken. Use some other race to create super cheap cynos. While you're at it, don't use Minnie or CAldari, cause their carriers aren't as good. Don't use Amarr cause their noob cynos suck and their ships are slow. Don't use Caldari cause missiles suck. don't use Gallente cause, well, they're french or something. In other words, ships differ by race. What's your issue again?

btw if you're training a noob ship cyno to Cyno V you're a frigging moron. a noob ship cyno should always have less than 900k sp.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#68 - 2012-08-10 16:30:22 UTC
TIL Tribal band fly noobships.

on a sidenote WTS Amarr noobships complete with cargo expanders.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-08-10 16:30:50 UTC
Wait so in response to what you said in the other thread - you think people don't light cynos in force recons? I'm sorry if I'm not so risk averse as to only light cynos in the cheapest possible ships, but yes, people use force recons for cynos. People use far more expensive ships than force recons to light cynos.

Now, literally the only disadvantage you'd have on an Amarr character is having to move a T1 cargo expander. That's hardly a burden.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#70 - 2012-08-10 16:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Andski wrote:
Wait so in response to what you said in the other thread - you think people don't light cynos in force recons? I'm sorry if I'm not so risk averse as to only light cynos in the cheapest possible ships, but yes, people use force recons for cynos. People use far more expensive ships than force recons to light cynos.

Now, literally the only disadvantage you'd have on an Amarr character is having to move a T1 cargo expander. That's hardly a burden.



Only idiots light cynos in force recons.

It is good that you recognize that it is a disadvantage and it only applies to Amarr! Thank you for validating my entire point. =)

Ghost Frog wrote:
Quote:
Ghost Frog wrote:ps3ud0nym wrote:
garbled warbling

cynos take almost exactly 5 days to train.


You need Cyno IV to fit the correct amount of fuel to use a Rookie ship, with the exception of the Impairor. With the Impairor you will need cyno V, which is quite a bit longer than 5 days. That or bring cargo expanders. The headaches and extra logistics can be avoided by simply rolling another race and training the Amarr ship skills.

You can even still buy the Impairor off the market if you really want to fly it.

Point taken. Use some other race to create super cheap cynos. While you're at it, don't use Minnie or CAldari, cause their carriers aren't as good. Don't use Amarr cause their noob cynos suck and their ships are slow. Don't use Caldari cause missiles suck. don't use Gallente cause, well, they're french or something. In other words, ships differ by race. What's your issue again?

btw if you're training a noob ship cyno to Cyno V you're a frigging moron. a noob ship cyno should always have less than 900k sp.


That is part of the problem as well. In order to do it you would need to get that cyno alt above 900k or have to worry about extra logistics. It is something only Amarr have to worry about and it is based on a decision they had to make before they knew what the long term consequences would be.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-08-10 16:34:29 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Only idiots light cynos in force recons.

It is good that you recognize that it is a disadvantage and it only applies to Amarr! Thank you for validating my entire point. =)


I'm an idiot for lighting a cyno in a ship that can hold enough LO3 for more cyno activations than any other cruiser/frigate and is only tied down for 5 minutes as opposed to 10. Good to know.

And sure it's a "disadvantage" but it's far from a significant one.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
#72 - 2012-08-10 16:35:00 UTC
So you're saying the Impairer is impaired.

How apt.

Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.

Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of [u]Out Of Pod Experience[/u], If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here.
Jim Era
#73 - 2012-08-10 16:36:16 UTC
jesus christ, how the hell is this a disadvantage? they can still cyno on rookie ship, you just need a different module, and its not expensive whatsoever.
what a fail OP. lol

Wat™
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#74 - 2012-08-10 16:36:42 UTC
Andski wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Only idiots light cynos in force recons.

It is good that you recognize that it is a disadvantage and it only applies to Amarr! Thank you for validating my entire point. =)


I'm an idiot for lighting a cyno in a ship that can hold enough LO3 for more cyno activations than any other cruiser/frigate and is only tied down for 5 minutes as opposed to 10. Good to know.

And sure it's a "disadvantage" but it's far from a significant one.


Yes. You are. Please let me know where you live and I will come and show you why it is a bad idea. I am certainly not opposed to force recon kills! =D

It is still a disadvantage and the change needed to fix it is also far from a significant one. 5.2 m3 of cargo space.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-08-10 16:39:40 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Yes. You are. Please let me know where you live and I will come and show you why it is a bad idea. I am certainly not opposed to force recon kills! =D

It is still a disadvantage and the change needed to fix it is also far from a significant one. 5.2 m3 of cargo space.


Feel free to shoot a blue recon. Given that rookie ships are not intended as cyno ships, you'll never see it "fixed."

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jim Era
#76 - 2012-08-10 16:40:41 UTC
I hope it never gets fixed just to **** OP off.
Aren't real games supposed to be unbalanced, that is the only true balance.

Wat™
Theron Urian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-08-10 16:43:45 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
I would like to have a response to this from a Dev. I want to know if taking away the ablity to use the Impairor as a cyno ship while leaving the other race's rookie ships able to do so was intentional. If so, is CCP going to give those effected by this change (who might have capitals trapped because they can't cyno to their alts any more) the ability to change their base race?


Wah wah wah a bloo bloo bloo. Mommy he has one more piece of candy than I do bloo bloo blooo.

You are such a damn cry baby, so Amarr now need to train 20 minutes and pay a small amount of Isk to fit a cyno on a noob ship.

I would hate to see you when some thing really really unjust goes down.

Summary of thread = Abloo bloo blooooooo cyno ship ablooooo *sniff*

Can we please lock this crap and forum ban the op? The idiot seems intent on re posting this thread till he is banned any ways.
Jim Era
#78 - 2012-08-10 16:46:20 UTC
Theron Urian wrote:
Intelligent stuff



+8

Wat™
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#79 - 2012-08-10 16:47:33 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Denidil wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
I would like to have a response to this from a Dev. I want to know if taking away the ablity to use the Impairor as a cyno ship while leaving the other race's rookie ships able to do so was intentional. If so, is CCP going to give those effected by this change (who might have capitals trapped because they can't cyno to their alts any more) the ability to change their base race?


they're already said FIT A CARGO EXTENDER.



Are you going to fly out to the edge of the map to provide one? If I am not amarr, I don't have to fit anything extra. I can just pod jump to any station I have a cyno and fuel at and jump with no changes necessary.

The cargo expander is not a valid solution in any way at all. If you honestly think it is, then I am pretty sure you have never dealt with nul-sec logistics for an alliance before if you have ever even jumped a capital at all, which I doubt.



I guess you could get the expander from the same place you get the generator and fuel from.

If the other 3 ships had a built in generator so something and the amarr ship was the only one you had to add a mod to, I would see your point.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#80 - 2012-08-10 16:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Andski wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Yes. You are. Please let me know where you live and I will come and show you why it is a bad idea. I am certainly not opposed to force recon kills! =D

It is still a disadvantage and the change needed to fix it is also far from a significant one. 5.2 m3 of cargo space.


Feel free to shoot a blue recon. Given that rookie ships are not intended as cyno ships, you'll never see it "fixed."


Goons historically haven't been blue to 99 (we formed specifically to fight you actually). The current standings are based on convenience and will likely be reviewed once the current conflict is over. We only became blue to you because of Delve. Did you not think there was a reason for that?

No ships are "intended" as cyno ships really. You will notice that there are these things called fitting slots on your ship. They are there so that they can be configured any way you would like depending on the use YOU intend on using it for. That is why it is called a sandbox.

Lord Ryan wrote:

I guess you could get the expander from the same place you get the generator and fuel from.

If the other 3 ships had a built in generator so something and the amarr ship was the only one you had to add a mod to, I would see your point.


You still haven't addressed that the only race that has to deal with that extra step is Amarr. Which is my entire point, it isn't being inconvenienced. If it were up to me I would take away the ability to fit a cyno on a newbie ship period and make it so that they don't spawn in 0.0 stations or low sec at all. But of course that would affect ALL races equally rather than just a single race while the rest actually receive a buff to the same activity.