These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New patch makes courier missions too easy!

Author
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#41 - 2012-08-09 17:09:51 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Quote:
Missing Cargo Warning

You are about to undock without the cargo required for your in-progress courier mission, Incriminating Evidence. Are you sure you want to undock now?


Lol

Training noobs to be forgetful because mummy keeps them organised. How are they going to cope when mummy's not around anymore?


Remembering to load your cargo is technically using your brain... as much as digging a ditch requires you to use your brain. It is a functional step...but it can hardly be called mentally challenging.

Courier missions are already a painful (as in, painfully boring) thing to run. Cutting down on the times you go 5 jumps only to realize you forgot your cargo is just a way to make it less painful.


Now, if you were running a security mission and you got the message: "I see you are about to undock for a mission against the Blood Raiders... but your ammo is geared to dealing Kinetic damage and your tank for resisting explosive. It is recommended you load EM or Thermal weapons and resists when fighting these pirates. With your skills, I'd recommend XYZ ammo and ZYX tanking modules for this mission.

Then yes, that would be dumbing it down.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

theteck
#42 - 2012-08-09 17:16:19 UTC
comon its just a notify for dont forget the courrier mission before go lollll


omg people crying for nothing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- | I'm from Québec and english its my secondary language... | 
Sam Ruger
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-08-10 03:53:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sam Ruger
Shameless Avenger wrote:
People will still click ok and undock without the cargo. Bet on it. Better yet... without accepting the mission.



Have you been stalking my main?

I also have a bad habit of leaving drones all over eve when I warp off. I have been accused of being the a cause of the rogue drone problem.
Chuckles Beeshaw
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-08-10 04:18:25 UTC
Shugga Ditz wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Quote:
Missing Cargo Warning

You are about to undock without the cargo required for your in-progress courier mission, Incriminating Evidence. Are you sure you want to undock now?


Lol

Training noobs to be forgetful because mummy keeps them organised. How are they going to cope when mummy's not around anymore?


How did you find out about this error? No doubt you were extensively testing the system, not just being a noob...

Herr Hammer Draken
#45 - 2012-08-10 04:19:18 UTC
I just hit a new low. Read 3 pages of courier missions as if it mattered. Courier missions. Really a new low. Twisted

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"

Suqq Madiq
#46 - 2012-08-10 05:12:11 UTC
Max G Force wrote:
Just more evidence of dumbing the game down. Still eventually people will not need to use their brain as the game will do most of it for them.


Based off threads like this and, frankly, most of GD, the dumbing down of EVE is necessary to the continued survival of the game.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-08-10 05:17:41 UTC
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
People think before you speak, these changes are making the game simpler not easier, tool tips to show gun range save time, reminding you to bring cargo makes life allot nicer becasue flying back through gates allot sucks balls.


By definition, making something simpler is making it easier.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Josef Djugashvilis
#48 - 2012-08-10 05:27:31 UTC
Max G Force wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Quote:
Missing Cargo Warning

You are about to undock without the cargo required for your in-progress courier mission, Incriminating Evidence. Are you sure you want to undock now?


Lol

Training noobs to be forgetful because mummy keeps them organised. How are they going to cope when mummy's not around anymore?




Just more evidence of dumbing the game down. Still eventually people will not need to use their brain as the game will do most of it for them.


I agree completely with you.

Eve should be so difficult that no more than 50,000 of the world's brightest should be able to understand and play Eve.

Anything else is just pandering to the stupid mass of humanity.

This is not a signature.

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#49 - 2012-08-10 05:54:03 UTC
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:
Seriously, your complaining about the game getting easier yet your spending your time running courier missions, COURIER missions. Becasue flying from one place to the next was really testing your skills in the first place.

People think before you speak, these changes are making the game simpler not easier, tool tips to show gun range save time, reminding you to bring cargo makes life allot nicer becasue flying back through gates allot sucks balls.

When I see a post like this my first reaction is that the poster is a complete ******. However, I usually try to dismiss that initial reaction in favor of what could be more likely reasons, such as furious typing in an attempt to get off a quick troll post, or maybe a less-than-stellar command of the English language, or it could simply be a result of the poster's schooling (United States South, maybe?)

People, think before you post, for the love of all that is holy.

Also, I agree that the pop-up is making EVE easier. I know I've left **** in the station and have had to go back for it on multiple occasions. It's one of the few "dangers" inherent in mission-running.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#50 - 2012-08-10 06:21:55 UTC
For the love of....

Shut the hell up, this is not making the game easier.

The ability for one to complete a courier mission has NOT been changed. Nothing got easier or harder here about the mission or any of the mechanics regarding it. Reminding you about something that you will inevitably discover later is not making the game any easier. It is a convenience feature and doesn't effect the difficulty of the task in any way. All it does is save you the time of making the mistake in the first place.

Conversely having to do a double round trip because of leaving behind an objective does NOT make the task or game any more difficult. It does not take any extra brain power to do that. And simply remembering to do it right the first time is not any significant thing either. The scenario where one forgets their courier cargo does not, in any way, add any "content" to the game or contribute any positive thing to anyone. Removing this from occurring with a simple reminder is not detracting from the game whatsoever.

The Drake is a Lie

Josef Djugashvilis
#51 - 2012-08-10 07:06:17 UTC
If I was paid a nominal amount of isk for every time I flew to a mission site without having first accepted the mission, I could afford not to run missions at all.

Eve needs a pop-up mission reminder for folk like me.

This is not a signature.

Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#52 - 2012-08-10 07:14:55 UTC
Max G Force wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Quote:
Missing Cargo Warning

You are about to undock without the cargo required for your in-progress courier mission, Incriminating Evidence. Are you sure you want to undock now?


Lol

Training noobs to be forgetful because mummy keeps them organised. How are they going to cope when mummy's not around anymore?




Just more evidence of dumbing the game down. Still eventually people will not need to use their brain as the game will do most of it for them.


Does that mean you selling your smart phone? just asking. Lol

Empire, the next new world order.

Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-08-10 07:35:23 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Making information as accessible and easy as possible and reducing the number of clicks to the bare minimum is not dumbing down. It is increasing efficiency. You know, similar things to what say for instance the military spend tons of resources on all the time, all over the world.

Mission reminder that you haven't picked up your cargo is not dumbing down. That is in fact merely a (IMO) bad patchwork for fixing a system that is rather weak to begin with. Cargo could have been added directly to the hold but I doubt that even that would be an optimal solution depending on the situation.

A message that pops up and warns you that a ship has warped on grid whilst you are mining, suggesting that you should perhaps warp off cause there is always a chance that you can be attacked by other players....or even worse, have a toggle feature that does it automatically for you, now THAT is dumbing down the game.

Learn the subtle differences please.



o.k. then let's add these popups too.

"you're about to undock but you have no ammo in your cargo bay"

"you're about to target a ship, but you have no ammo in your guns"

"you're about log off, but you have no skills in training queue"

"you're about to leave your corporation, but your friends will miss you."

"you're about to enter another mining cycle, but you won't have enough room in your cargo bay for the next round of ore"

"you're about to warp but you don't have enough capacitor to reach your destination"

"you're about to undock in a mining barge, but you have no tank fitted"

"you're about to make player to player trade, but the person you're trading with is not in your buddy list"

"you're about to join a corporation, but they have a very high turnover"

"you're about buy a cruiser, and while you have the cruiser skill trained, you're other skills related to this ship suck"

"you're about to sell a ship, but you have no other ships in your hanger bay"

"you're about to lock this hunk of veldspar, but there's a scordite asteroid nearby"

"you're about to lock a ship, but it is out of range of you're weaponry.

"you're about to activate ECM on this ship, but it has multiple ECCM fitted"

"you're about to use fire EM missiles, but your target has a 85% EM resist"

Where does it stop? Why is it necessary?

Is it dumbing down? matter of opinion. My opinion is that it caters to laziness. But it's a slippery slope, because while making tedious things easier to complete sounds like a good idea... different people have different ideas of what tedium is. Every time you remove something that is tedious to 1 person, you remove something that is important to another. Simplilfy to many things, and you actually lose more than you gain.

This one thing in and of itself is not intrinsically bad in and of itself. The direction that it hints of could be.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#54 - 2012-08-10 07:37:33 UTC
Max G Force wrote:
Docter Daniel Jackson wrote:
So if they don't have brains should u not be able to beat them right? I mean your trying to say ur better and smarter then them.



Don't think much of your powers of deduction.


I just hate to see games getting easier, it happened to WoW and now this game seems to be heading down the same path.


Wait, they managed to make WoW easier?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#55 - 2012-08-10 08:52:57 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Wait, they managed to make WoW easier?


Blizzard seemed to think that there were so many people complaining about how long it took to level their dozen alts to start raiding (level requirements, gear checks, etc) that they sped up the levelling process and weakened the “gear checks”. So yes, they made it easier. As a result of being so quick to level, it became boring. Halfway through an old chain of quests that would be challenging for a level 10 character, the character would hit level 15 and the previously challenging fights were against grey mobs: i.e. no challenge at all. So boring in fact that WoW started bleeding subscribers.

In Ultima Online, the developers heard so many cries from PvP-averse players about how hard it was to collect resources without being killed, they added the world of Trammel where world PvP was turned off. The result was rampant inflation and the near death of PvP. The PvE folks didn't mind: they were brainlessly gathering materials without any risk. The industrial folks hated it: no longer was there any feeling of achievment in coming back to town alive with a load of materials. The Ultima Online servers are still running, but for many people the game is dead.

In Star Wars Galaxies, the new owners (Sony Online Entertainment) decided that this player-run economy thing was too complicated. So they introduced the New Player Experience. It was supposed to make the game so much easier and more enjoyable. But it turns out that a great many players who weren't in SOE's ear 24x7 actually enjoyed the player driven economy. I have friends who played SWG and specialised in making high grade health packs which required visiting certain planets during certain seasons (i.e.: there were real world time constraints on resource availability) to get the appropriate parts. That was their game: they took pride in their craft. The NPE destroyed the player driven economy. I'm told the SWG servers were shut down last year, but the game was dead long before that.

It turns out that a lot of people want virtual worlds where virtual success means something. What's the point of parading around Ironforge in your Ultimate Raid Armour of Doom when everyone has Ultimate Raid Armour of Doom? People were so desperate to gain status through equipment that they'd pay other people thousands of dollars to play their accounts through Arena seasons to gain the rewards that are only available to characters high up on the Arena ladders (no, I'm serious, one of my workmates was making $US2000/month playing World of Warcraft).

So on one hand, making things easier removes the challenge of getting things right: and believe me although courier missions are boring, boring, boring, there is still some satisfaction in being able to mentally tick off the checklists for "Flying the correct ship? Check! Cargo in hold? Check! Waypoints set? Check! Undock and activate autopilot! Check check!"

There is no point in PvP at which a player will be prompted to put ammo in their cargo hold (and preferably, ammo suitable to the weapons they're using and targets they're shooting). Some FCs might distribute checklists (everyone bring enough Liquid Oxygen to refuel the jump bridge), but there's always someone who forgets. For some players, the sense of satisfaction from coming home after a long roam where everyone was organised and had the right ship, weapons, ammo and fuel is enough to compensate to some degree for the total lack of goodfites.

Some lessons need to be learned the hard way. While I appreciate the effort the devs have put into the UI, I feel that reminding people to put mission cargo in their hold is counter productive hand-holding. It's teaching people bad habits: yes, pilot, in this cold harsh universe where making mistakes can get you killed, don't worry because Aura has your back. Except when your mistake could actually get you killed.

On the one hand, warning missioners that they're leaving station without the appropriate cargo is useful: courier missions are dull and boring as it is, never mind the frustration of getting to the destination eight jumps away without the cargo. On the other hand, this kind of hand-holding will teach new players bad habits. They will get into PvP and undock with no ammo, because they've come to rely on the warning about undocking without the important stuff.

It might be the case that I am reaching for something to complain about. It might be the case that most people will appreciate the message, then turn it off after a while because it annoys them, and no harm done. It might be the case that I'm arguing an extreme case of “slippery slope”, and that I should just calm down and enjoy the game. But I can't help worrying that there are little changes the devs can make to EVE Online that we won't complain about at first, only to look back in a few years time and realise, "Yeah, the mission cargo warning was where the devs started EVE Online's 'Trammelling' disaster."

My sincere respect goes to the developers involved in this: the warning is a very thoughtful inclusion and I don't mean to diminish the effort you spent on testing and tweaking this feature. I do worry that this feature is indicative of a poor design decision process that might lead to more hand-holding and protecting new players from themselves. That is to say, this simple dialog box is a symptom of a grater malaise (to abuse the cliché, it's “the tip of the iceberg”), of CCP starting to “helicopter parent” the new players. Perhaps CCP believe the intent of the feature is to care for and nurture new players?

The road to Hell, as the saying goes, is paved with good intentions.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#56 - 2012-08-10 08:53:41 UTC
Holy Wall of Text, Batman Shocked

Sorry.
Conrad Lionhart
#57 - 2012-08-10 08:56:21 UTC
I'm pretty sure this warning has been there for years. Why are you mentioning it now?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#58 - 2012-08-10 08:57:39 UTC
Conrad Lionhart wrote:
I'm pretty sure this warning has been there for years. Why are you mentioning it now?


Because I've only seen it since the patch.
Conrad Lionhart
#59 - 2012-08-10 09:15:18 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Conrad Lionhart wrote:
I'm pretty sure this warning has been there for years. Why are you mentioning it now?


Because I've only seen it since the patch.


I guess the irony here is the noobs aren't the only ones who need to use their brain then.
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-08-10 09:25:45 UTC
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:


Seriously, your complaining about the game getting easier yet your spending your time running courier missions, COURIER missions. Becasue flying from one place to the next was really testing your skills in the first place.

People think before you speak, these changes are making the game simpler not easier, tool tips to show gun range save time, reminding you to bring cargo makes life allot nicer becasue flying back through gates allot sucks balls.


The story of oven mitts chess comes to mind.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!