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CSM Minutes: Offgrid boosting.
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Rita May
State War Academy
Caldari State
#181 - 2012-08-25 17:41:47 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online."


IMHO this sums it up nicely.

cu
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#182 - 2012-08-25 18:35:43 UTC
hows about when the links are activated sig radious goes up a lot. so makes scanning down so much easyer. would allow for booster baiting.

Ie coming in for a fight with a known booster engageing him while having a corpie to scan down and popping hi while the guy is fighting a bait ship lolz could be funz...
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#183 - 2012-08-26 00:01:44 UTC
so FCing in a command ship will be cool now \o/
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#184 - 2012-08-27 10:21:44 UTC
David Devant wrote:
@ Pax Thar: There's nothing unfair about rolling a boosted ship against multiple targets. Check Garmon's vids and say it's unfair. Even against a single target, you die, you whine, and then you get on with it.

@LCO: The falcon nerf was in no way comparable to removing off grid boosting and you know it. 0/10. Deuce.

I wouldn't object so much to making boosting occur on grid only if it wasn't for the fact that command ships are so ******* boring to fly. If you're kiting in a claymore you've got no ability to project damage and if you're brawling in a damnation you've got no damage at all.


Tell me you use your booster the way you said you do with a straight face.

Of the million times I engaged your boosted already two or three to one odds fleets tell me again you use it to give you a leg up in your one v ones.

Say it with a straight face. Roll

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Arsedestroyer
Doomheim
#185 - 2012-08-28 23:28:43 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:


Tell me you use your booster the way you said you do with a straight face.

Of the million times I engaged your boosted already two or three to one odds fleets tell me again you use it to give you a leg up in your one v ones.

Say it with a straight face. Roll



It's quite the same for most of the OGB defenders - either they POS boost in Lowsec to gank solo frigs in their thrashers or never leave highsec like Diesel47.
Esk Esme
Simply Pleasure inc
#186 - 2012-08-29 10:09:10 UTC
Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread

to lazy to scan?
No skillz at scaning?
To much effort?
Omg i got tckled at 38k
theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war

Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it and just cry for nurf bat instead of learning game

also yes eve is alts online working as intended more acounts = more cash for ccp why milk cow once when can milk ten times might as well get used to alts online if not you know were unsub botton is
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#187 - 2012-08-29 11:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
Esk Esme wrote:
Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread
to lazy to scan?
No skillz at scaning?
To much effort?
Omg i got tckled at 38k
theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war


You should consider playing this game and not only smash talk. Scanning is not the problem, the problem for low-sec faction warefare players with boosting alts is that these alts are not in the enemy faction. So even if they just sit at the gate (which they often do) you don't want to kill them because you a) don't want to go pirate, b) are flying small stuff which quickly gets popped by gate guns. I think a boosting ship should be handled like a remote repper. If he is repping or boosting my valid enemy then I am allowed to kill it without any penalty.
Nicaragua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2012-08-29 11:14:14 UTC
Esk Esme wrote:
Posting in another lets dumb down eve thread

to lazy to scan?
No skillz at scaning?
To much effort?
Omg i got tckled at 38k
theyer gang haz boosts y dont we coz we nubs i know lets cry till ccp nuf yay nub wins the cry war

Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it and just cry for nurf bat instead of learning game

also yes eve is alts online working as intended more acounts = more cash for ccp why milk cow once when can milk ten times might as well get used to alts online if not you know were unsub botton is


Thats nice dear, now run along and try not to say anything else stupid.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#189 - 2012-08-29 23:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Esk Esme wrote:

Simple really eve is so dumbed now the nubs dont know how good they got it



Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields and getting a 6-link booster for virtually no proper skilling actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.

It's all a matter of perspective...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2012-08-30 14:06:16 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:

Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields and getting a 6-link booster for virtually no proper skilling actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.

Lets see...how quickly can one train up a 6 link booster alt...

Leadership 5 - 256K SP
Warfare link specialist 5 - 1,536K SP
Skirmish Warfare 5 - 512K SP
Skirmish Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP
Siege Warfare 5 - 512K SP
Siege Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP
Cybernetics 5 - 768K SP
Racial Cruiser 5 - 1,280K SP
Navigation 5, Gunnery/Missiles 5, Electronics 5, Shields 5, Engineering 5 - 1,280K SP
Defensive Subsystem 5 - 256K SP

With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.

How many months of play time is that on a new character with 1 spare remap? Even with +5 implants?
Nicaragua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2012-08-30 14:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicaragua
Whar Target wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:

Yes - another reason why OGB should be removed. Quickly training up a tankless T3 OGB and parking it off-grid or in POS shields and getting a 6-link booster for virtually no proper skilling actually is too nub friendly even for my taste.

Lets see...how quickly can one train up a 6 link booster alt...

Leadership 5 - 256K SP
Warfare link specialist 5 - 1,536K SP
Skirmish Warfare 5 - 512K SP
Skirmish Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP
Siege Warfare 5 - 512K SP
Siege Warfare Specialist 5 - 1,280K SP
Cybernetics 5 - 768K SP
Racial Cruiser 5 - 1,280K SP
Navigation 5, Gunnery/Missiles 5, Electronics 5, Shields 5, Engineering 5 - 1,280K SP
Defensive Subsystem 5 - 256K SP

With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.

How many months of play time is that on a new character with 1 spare remap? Even with +5 implants?


Its about 4-5 months which isnt particularly long for this game.
Lili Lu
#192 - 2012-08-30 17:41:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Vytone wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Lev Arturis wrote:
Off-grid boosting needs to go. We didn't need those in all the years before to fight vs. the odds.


Learn to probe.



Yeah, dontcha know you need a probing alt to find the other guys boosting alt in "alts online."




I thought we already agreed it should be "Whine on the forums because you can't cope till ccp change the mechanics for you online."


Carebear tears, best tears!

Actually the whining because you can't cope and hope CCP will change it's plans is coming from your camp. CCP has said for years they wanted to end off-grid boosting. Now that they appear to have found a solution to the coding problem and be getting serious about doing it, all of folks that have come to depend on the Tech III ss-ing booster alt are the ones throwing names around and specious arguments about how others are too "lazy" to create probing alts to try to find boosting alts. And, yes, if the other guy disagrees with my opinion he is ipso facto a crying carebear.

Small gang roaming and small gangs harrassing larger ones happened in eve before the tech III cruisers were in game. And it will continue after the Tech III boosting alts lose their current mode of operation. Continue to moan about the loss of this unintended mechanic, or adjust. I think you will be able to adjust.Blink
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#193 - 2012-08-30 22:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Whar Target wrote:


With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.




Thanks for running the numbers - as Nicaragua said it's 4-5 months, so next to nothing. As I said it's quick and a newb friendly mechanic, especially compared to a proper CS pilot for on-grid purposes.

Hell - even for my throwaway T1 frigate only alt, I trained more in support skills (~12-13m SP) before even remapping to perc/will and going for gunnnery+spaceship command skills.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2012-08-31 12:57:09 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Whar Target wrote:


With my terrible math skills, I calculate 8,960,000 Skill points for a character with "no proper skilling" to sit in a 6-link T3.




Thanks for running the numbers - as Nicaragua said it's 4-5 months, so next to nothing. As I said it's quick and a newb friendly mechanic, especially compared to a proper CS pilot for on-grid purposes.

Hell - even for my throwaway T1 frigate only alt, I trained more in support skills (~12-13m SP) before even remapping to perc/will and going for gunnnery+spaceship command skills.

Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.

It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt.
Nicaragua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2012-08-31 13:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicaragua
Whar Target wrote:

Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.

It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt.


Well thats just a difference of opininion on what makes something noobish. My personal take on it is that some of the people for OGB are arguing as though it is some kind of elite hardcore tactic and the problem is that everyone else just needs to catch up to their awesome skill level.

The fact is that it is none of those things and the samething can be achieved by any new player who has the appropriate knowledge within a short space of time, and due to the ease of ISK making in noob friendly pursuits like Faction Warfare the the entire thing can very easily be financed with plex from a couple of days FW complex grinding. So in that aspect then yeah, its pretty nub friendly.

As for falcon alts then i can live with that because at least the falcon has to be within a reasonable range of the ships it is assisting which leaves it open to interceptors, long range weapons, sensor damps, ECM etc.
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#196 - 2012-08-31 13:51:21 UTC
Pain of OGB defenders is delicious.

/me parking here freight train for tears.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#197 - 2012-08-31 15:25:52 UTC
gang of 5 claymores and 5 vultures anyone?

Whos got dem linkz!?

WHY DUAL X-L ASB! IMPOSSIBRU!

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#198 - 2012-09-01 22:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Whar Target wrote:
Well I tend to disagree that 4-5 months is nothing. To a long-term, established player, sure another account is not THAT big of a deal, but running another account for 4-5 months before it's able to serve its purpose does not in any way seem like a noob friendly endeavor. You ever read new player posts? People can't even convince them to rack up a few million SP's before they want to try undocking a battleship.

It's old-player alt friendly to skill one up, but there's still the lost potential of that account that could be used more effectively as a DPS or E-war alt. How much "risk" is involved in using a falcon alt every time a person engages 1-2 players? Meta gaming is always going to give you some advantage vs the true solo player, nerfing OGB will just mark the return of the infamous falcon alt.



It all depends on the definition of a noob. Real beginners may perceive 4-5 months as a big investment for a game they haven't invested much time in yet and will ultimately be turned off by OGBs since they're not sure if the want to make the investment into an OGB and multiple screens if they don't have that already.

In case they're interested in solo pvp or beginning to do smallscale with a couple of RL friends, they'll end up really annoyed because every single one of the ships they encounter and their dogs have their private OGB alt.

Nonetheless, it's noob friendly for noobs that made the decision to stick around, so mostly the roughly 2 year old noobs and everyone of them feels obliged to get one. Sounds good for CCP, but then again, mandatory OGBs just turn absolutely new subscribers off.

ECM mechanics need to be reworked, but that's another issue.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#199 - 2012-09-03 05:50:30 UTC
Simply reducing boosting range and thus allowing huge blobs to gain/keep massive benefits from one single ship would be plain dumb.

CCP needs to realize that boosting values should depend on squad size - more members should result in lesser benefits. That's the only way of making gang-links actually balanced, offgrid or not.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2012-09-03 10:00:03 UTC
Many times I get the advantages of offgrid boosting myself. Fastest ship, 13Km scrambler, etc. It's very nice. I don't have any alts (for boosting or anything, in fact) but some mates do, and they use them,

However, I wouldn't mind seeing offgrid boosting removed.

Perhaps it would be enough if offgrid boosting T3 was much LESS effective than active boosting from a Command ship being risked in real engagements?

I see that T3 are expensive and wonderful tools, but I'd rather see Command ships being much better at boosting than them, always.