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Bug with the Retriever's Ore Hold

First post
Author
Pipa Porto
#41 - 2012-08-10 07:07:15 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Rats wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
No decent software company relies on unpaid, likely unqualified third party testers as their Q&A process. I suggest you do some more research into software development processes before making nonsensical claims about "the glory of the motherland"



Umm Microsoft,



I said decent software company (and your example is nonsequitur anyway).

Look, if you're going to reply, make it a good one. Don't waste my time or the time of others here.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft

Highlights:
Revenue.............US$ 73.72 billion (2012)
Net income........US$ 16.97 billion (2012)
Total assets.......US$ 121.2 billion (2012)

"As of 2012, Microsoft is market dominant in both the PC operating system and office suite markets (the latter with Microsoft Office)."


What's your Definition of "Decent?"

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-08-10 08:01:20 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Look guys, you can't expect CCP to launch a patch that works properly. That's a totally unreasonable expectation.


Have you been on SISI testing and filing bug reports?



right.

because ccp never ignores player feedback on issues prior to releasing patches.........

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-08-10 08:12:01 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
3) And yeah, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain about who's in office.

Sure you do.

Pipa Porto wrote:
If you don't hunt bugs, you don't get to complain that you find the bugs after they get to TQ.

Sure I get to complain. Keep watching my posts.

Pipa Porto wrote:
Decisions are made by those who show up.

Yeah, those people on Sisi who are ignored report after report sure get to make decisions...

Pipa Porto wrote:
If you show up and are ignored, then feel free to complain.

How about, I pay to play, and I will complain whenever I want.

Kudos to those people who engage in the futility of testing on Sisi. It's less harmful than voting.



Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-08-10 08:12:32 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
What's your Definition of "Decent?"

Not Windows ME or Vista.

You're going on ignore.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Pipa Porto
#45 - 2012-08-10 08:14:36 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
What's your Definition of "Decent?"

Not Windows ME or Vista.

You're going on ignore.


So you're saying that the largest software company in the world is not a "Decent" Software company? Ok.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-08-10 08:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
Frying Doom wrote:
Oh and if you Don't Vote, You are in fact voting for your Candidate Silence.. If you can not be bothered voting why the hell should you have a say in the process? You chose to opt out of it!

If you can't vote for any candidate, including none of the above, then you're options to vote are incredibly limited.

You may like participating in a dog and pony show with contestants you have no control over, who have no accountability to you, and who you cannot select.

I see it for the farce it is. And I love to criticize people who believe they are participating in some noble civil process.

You're making the same childish error Ruby is making. You're confusing being asked your opinion with actually having an impact.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Dave Stark
#47 - 2012-08-10 08:17:00 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
3) And yeah, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain about who's in office.

Sure you do.


no, you ******* do not.

nothing irks me more than people who complain about the government just to reply with "i didn't" when you ask who they voted for.
your voice on matters of importance is your ability to vote, not how loud you can whine about it months later.
Pipa Porto
#48 - 2012-08-10 08:19:28 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Oh and if you Don't Vote, You are in fact voting for your Candidate Silence.. If you can not be bothered voting why the hell should you have a say in the process? You chose to opt out of it!

If you can't vote for any candidate, including none of the above, then you're options to vote are incredibly limited.

You may like participating in a dog and pony show with contestants you have no control over, who have no accountability to you, and who you cannot select.

I see it for the farce it is. And I love to criticize people who believe they are participating in some noble civil process.

You're making the same childish error Ruby is making. You're confusing being asked your opinion with actually having an impact.


So instead of taking a constructive part of the process, you chose to sit on the sidelines and whine that you're not being represented by people you chose not to take part in selecting.

By the way, if you're unhappy with the candidates, run for office.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-08-10 08:59:23 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Rats wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
No decent software company relies on unpaid, likely unqualified third party testers as their Q&A process. I suggest you do some more research into software development processes before making nonsensical claims about "the glory of the motherland"



Umm Microsoft,



I said decent software company (and your example is nonsequitur anyway).

Look, if you're going to reply, make it a good one. Don't waste my time or the time of others here.



Your having a laugh aren't you ? and why did you remove the "every Games publisher for the last 10 years" from your quoted reply.

If your going to argue a point don't come in with an argument you cant back up and can be ripped to shreds by anyone that feels like it.

Tal


I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-08-10 09:02:53 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:


3) And yeah, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain about who's in office. If you don't hunt bugs, you don't get to complain that you find the bugs after they get to TQ. Decisions are made by those who show up. If you show up and are ignored, then feel free to complain.


Sorry, I can't agree with this one. You're saying that my money alone isn't enough to complain about the game's bugs. It is, and when it stops being enough I'll send it elsewhere.

Just because you don't vote doesn't count you out of the right to express your opinions about the politicians. It's still your country, and they're the ones running it.
Pipa Porto
#51 - 2012-08-10 09:03:57 UTC
Rats wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Rats wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
No decent software company relies on unpaid, likely unqualified third party testers as their Q&A process. I suggest you do some more research into software development processes before making nonsensical claims about "the glory of the motherland"



Umm Microsoft,



I said decent software company (and your example is nonsequitur anyway).

Look, if you're going to reply, make it a good one. Don't waste my time or the time of others here.



Your having a laugh aren't you ? and why did you remove the "every Games publisher for the last 10 years" from your quoted reply.

If your going to argue a point don't come in with an argument you cant back up and can be ripped to shreds by anyone that feels like it.

Tal


Past 10 years? You're being optimistic. Pac-Man has some significant bugs in it. Pong probably has bugs.

Heck, the Cathode Ray Tube Amusement Device of 1947 probably had bugs (possibly literal).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2012-08-10 09:06:12 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Heck, the Cathode Ray Tube Amusement Device of 1947 probably had bugs (possibly literal).
I seem to recall that that's the source of the term… so yes.
Pipa Porto
#53 - 2012-08-10 09:07:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


3) And yeah, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain about who's in office. If you don't hunt bugs, you don't get to complain that you find the bugs after they get to TQ. Decisions are made by those who show up. If you show up and are ignored, then feel free to complain.


Sorry, I can't agree with this one. You're saying that my money alone isn't enough to complain about the game's bugs. It is, and when it stops being enough I'll send it elsewhere.

Just because you don't vote doesn't count you out of the right to express your opinions about the politicians. It's still your country, and they're the ones running it.


It's not enough to complain about the fact that bugs make it into TQ. If they're not fixed in a timely manner, you have every right to complain, and I'll be right there with you. (Bringing them to CCP's attention, is of course, a great idea.)

Not voting means you gave up your right to complain about the politicians who were elected because you chose not to participate in the process that elected them.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-08-10 09:14:29 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


3) And yeah, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain about who's in office. If you don't hunt bugs, you don't get to complain that you find the bugs after they get to TQ. Decisions are made by those who show up. If you show up and are ignored, then feel free to complain.


Sorry, I can't agree with this one. You're saying that my money alone isn't enough to complain about the game's bugs. It is, and when it stops being enough I'll send it elsewhere.

Just because you don't vote doesn't count you out of the right to express your opinions about the politicians. It's still your country, and they're the ones running it.


It's not enough to complain about the fact that bugs make it into TQ. If they're not fixed in a timely manner, you have every right to complain, and I'll be right there with you. (Bringing them to CCP's attention, is of course, a great idea.)

Not voting means you gave up your right to complain about the politicians who were elected because you chose not to participate in the process that elected them.


I think CCP does a good job. You'd never know it from reading the forums.

And if some politician is sending the country to hell in a handbasket, everyone has a right to complain, whether they voted or not. To say otherwise is a way to start to censor the general public.
Pipa Porto
#55 - 2012-08-10 09:33:35 UTC
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
I think CCP does a good job. You'd never know it from reading the forums.

And if some politician is sending the country to hell in a handbasket, everyone has a right to complain, whether they voted or not. To say otherwise is a way to start to censor the general public.



I don't mean that you lose the Right to Speak, just the moral authority that comes from being able to say "I tried to stop this jackass from getting into power," instead of having to say "I didn't vote, so this jackass had an easier time getting into power, but now that he's in power, I'm upset that a process that I was too lazy to participate in elected someone whom I disagree with."

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Stickyhand
Velators at Dawn
#56 - 2012-08-10 10:46:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Stickyhand
Pipa Porto wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
I think CCP does a good job. You'd never know it from reading the forums.

And if some politician is sending the country to hell in a handbasket, everyone has a right to complain, whether they voted or not. To say otherwise is a way to start to censor the general public.



I don't mean that you lose the Right to Speak, just the moral authority that comes from being able to say "I tried to stop this jackass from getting into power," instead of having to say "I didn't vote, so this jackass had an easier time getting into power, but now that he's in power, I'm upset that a process that I was too lazy to participate in elected someone whom I disagree with."


This quote seems rather apt in light of his (sadly) recent demise:

“It makes no difference who you vote for - the two parties are really one party representing four percent of the people”
Gore Vidal

Combined with a previous posters signature:

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec.
CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents.


On the wider point of voting in a representative democracy, remind yourself of ancient greek history. I don't have time to give you a lesson on philosophy or critical thinking but it is widely understood that representative democracy is simply a synonym for elected dictatorship. The illusion of choice. It has little relevance to actual democracy as originally conceived.

One vote is meaningless against a tide of ignorant voters, at best it is a moderating force and you get something mediocre and not particularly fit for purpose. Much like the governments in any country you can name. You'll have a much greater affect motivating others than actually voting yourself (which is almost entirely irrelevant).

Don't buy into the popular media's view (a view which benefits them by engaging you in the process from which they thrive) that participating in the same system within which you have no impact repeatedly gives you some sort of moral authority, it doesn't. It merely reveals you to be insane.
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Stupidity or insanity? You pick.

I hope you come to understand the nature of representitive democracy in the future, fly safe o/
Hemmo Paskiainen
#57 - 2012-08-10 11:36:32 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Look guys, you can't expect CCP to launch a patch that works properly. That's a totally unreasonable expectation.


Have you been on SISI testing and filing bug reports?

How about devs trying atleast once if their changes would work...

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-08-10 12:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rats
Pipa Porto wrote:
Rats wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Rats wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
No decent software company relies on unpaid, likely unqualified third party testers as their Q&A process. I suggest you do some more research into software development processes before making nonsensical claims about "the glory of the motherland"



Umm Microsoft,



I said decent software company (and your example is nonsequitur anyway).

Look, if you're going to reply, make it a good one. Don't waste my time or the time of others here.



Your having a laugh aren't you ? and why did you remove the "every Games publisher for the last 10 years" from your quoted reply.

If your going to argue a point don't come in with an argument you cant back up and can be ripped to shreds by anyone that feels like it.

Tal


Past 10 years? You're being optimistic. Pac-Man has some significant bugs in it. Pong probably has bugs.

Heck, the Cathode Ray Tube Amusement Device of 1947 probably had bugs (possibly literal).



I was being nice P but if you want to go back, try bug fixing this, must have been a ***** Big smile

Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk

Pipa Porto
#59 - 2012-08-10 19:35:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Stickyhand wrote:
This quote seems rather apt in light of his (sadly) recent demise:

“It makes no difference who you vote for - the two parties are really one party representing four percent of the people”
Gore Vidal

Combined with a previous posters signature:

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec.
CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents.


On the wider point of voting in a representative democracy, remind yourself of ancient greek history. I don't have time to give you a lesson on philosophy or critical thinking but it is widely understood that representative democracy is simply a synonym for elected dictatorship. The illusion of choice. It has little relevance to actual democracy as originally conceived.

One vote is meaningless against a tide of ignorant voters, at best it is a moderating force and you get something mediocre and not particularly fit for purpose. Much like the governments in any country you can name. You'll have a much greater affect motivating others than actually voting yourself (which is almost entirely irrelevant).

Don't buy into the popular media's view (a view which benefits them by engaging you in the process from which they thrive) that participating in the same system within which you have no impact repeatedly gives you some sort of moral authority, it doesn't. It merely reveals you to be insane.
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Stupidity or insanity? You pick.

I hope you come to understand the nature of representitive democracy in the future, fly safe o/


If you're unhappy with the way the leadership of the country you choose to live in is selected, there are ~190 other countries to choose from.

Meanwhile, proudly saying "I don't want to participate in improving the government, but I want to whine that I'm unhappy with the results" is ridiculous. If you don't feel that it's worth your time to vote, that's fine. But you're intentionally not participating, you don't get to complain that you're unhappy with the results.

If you're spending the time motivating others to vote, you might as well vote yourself.


Oh, and your EvE Demographics are wrong. That's the number of characters that were in each area during a snapshot. That has very little relation to the number of players.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-08-10 19:57:55 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

If you're unhappy with the way the leadership of the country you choose to live in is selected, there are ~190 other countries to choose from.

Meanwhile, proudly saying "I don't want to participate in improving the government, but I want to whine that I'm unhappy with the results" is ridiculous. If you don't feel that it's worth your time to vote, that's fine. But you're intentionally not participating, you don't get to complain that you're unhappy with the results.

If you're spending the time motivating others to vote, you might as well vote yourself.


Oh, and your EvE Demographics are wrong. That's the number of characters that were in each area during a snapshot. That has very little relation to the number of players.


You are discounting the fact that not choosing one is a choice as well. I participate in the process, I work in the polls half the time. If there is no one that I think comes close to representing me, I won't vote for them. If a ballot issue is about something I don't have a very clear understanding of and I may end up doing more harm than good with my vote, I won't vote on those issues either.

I have decided not to vote in those cases and I damn sure have the right to complain about my government. My tax money alone gives me some sort of say. Don't throw all non-voters into your 'lazy' or 'indifferent' categories.