Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I've been playing this game on and off since 2006/07. I love it to death, no matter how hard I try to quit, I always come back. I have to admit lately though, it's been getting easier for me to get frustrated with this game, as one of the most entertaining forms of PVP is constantly getting nerfed, small gang PVP.

Small gangs are what people enjoy. Not many people actually enjoy large fleet battles, why? Well that's because the person doing all the thinking in the large fleet is the FC, everyone else is a mindless drone following align points/targets/etc. Small gang PVP bonds pilots together, helps make new friends, challenges each individual pilot, and is a true test of a pilots skill as an individual. True small gang PVP doesn't even require an FC, but rather just a target caller, while everyone else maintains their own ranges, speeds, damage, etc.

Now, over the course of time, CCP has introduced little and big changes to the game that have in my honest opinion nerfed small gang PVP. I will list a few of them, and explain why.

1) Jump Bridges
First I will say that I can respect the logistics that goes into setting up these networks, defending them, and keeping them running. I also respect the fact that holding space should mean something, and making life easier for those living in it, should be one of them. However, jump bridges have made life so easy for the home owners, that for small gangs trying to disrupt their space becomes a boring challenge here is why.

Example (this happens very often): Go roaming with a 5 or less man gang into a Sov holders space. Run around systems to cover as many as possible in as short amount of time. The longer we spend in their space, the more likely the enemy will form up a counter gang (that's fine). Now that gang is chasing us, and I manage to out maneuver them, and lose that enemy gang. Victory am I right? No. With the combination of intel reporting my gangs every movement, and Jump Bridges, that enemy gang will simply jump in front of us where ever we go. What option does that leave my gang? Log Off.

This is not how this game should be played. You can tell me I am doing it wrong, but I'll just tell you I am not. Every developed area of space has a well built JB network, meaning that I can either only spend very small amounts of time in the enemies space. Go at an off time when only a few enemies are online, preventing a blob, or simply ignore sov space altogether limiting my 0.0 roaming to only a few systems (not fun).

Back in the day, pipes would be infested with small gangs, creating fun and interesting PVP for the bigger alliances to do, and giving small gang PVPers like myself content, and an actual fighting chance. Choke point systems that are barren now, back in the day actually meant something, and were fun to camp. Freighters actually had to be escorted through space, giving another source of content for both parties.

People complain space seems small, and that you can travel from region to region too quickly. Revert back to the old days where Jump Bridges didn't exist, and space will actually seem vast again, take it from someone who doesn't ever get to use Jump Bridges.

2) Scanner Delay

I know that CCP stated that spamming the scanner button created a lot of lag on the server (or something of those means) and so that delay was created to reduce the load on the server. I don't know what the current state of the servers stress is at, but this was a unintentional nerf to small gang PVP.

For someone who hunts ratters/anom runners/etc, those few seconds that I have to wait for my scanner to recalibrate on my spaceship that travels 13.5AU/s (that's quite fast and amazing, but my scanner isn't up speed technology wise I guess) are very important. Which leads me to my next point.

3) Local

This intel tool is completely overpowered. I've read one suggestion that I think would be fair and balanced, that being delay the persons presence in local until the ship has decloaked. Now onto how this is overpowered, and recently nerfed small gangs even more with this most recent patch (Inferno 1.2).

For one, people ratting or gate camping see me in local usually before I even load my own local. They are already warping out if they are paying attention, before I can even think about finding them. Now perhaps the person is slow, and doesn't notice me yet in the system of 50 people. Well their intel channels for one will start blinking reporting my presence and they will notice. Or maybe they wake up and see me in local about 10 seconds after I jump in. It takes me (and I am pretty damn fast with the d-scanner) about 30 seconds give or take to locate someone in a site. I may get lucky and find them sooner, or I may have some bad luck and it can take up 60 seconds. Now, not only did I have to wait for my anomaly scanner to load, I have to wait for my ship to warp, land, lock, and point the enemy.

The most recent change to local makes it even worse. If local wasn't bad enough (everyone who is smart keeps this window separate and open at all times, especially in 0.0/lowsec. It now blinks when someone enters. Come on CCP, I know you are trying to be user friendly, but are you catering to all the SOV holding alliances or what?

TLDR:
1) JB's still seem overpowered, they need to be reworked further and/or removed *gasp*
2) Scanner Delay: Is this still necessary?
3) Local: Please start getting feedback from players on ways to change this, and please remove that annoying blinking flash that is both not needed and irritating (imagine 1,000 people jumping in a system).

CCP, I love your game, but please show us small gang 0.0 PVPers some love too.
Thanks,
Bizmarhk

Speaking as a CFC pilot who has been on many small-gang roams through the territory of alliances with bridges, all you really need is knowledge of where those bridges are, which can be obtained via your d-scanner. If you know what systems the bridges are in, you can extrapolate the connections, and you can actually lead them on a wild goose-chase through their own network, burning them through quite a bit of liquid ozone in the process as a bonus. Just make yourself a Note with JB locations and reference it against the starmap before you roll out.

Maybe... but in that case I would say its the hard core that remains and the dead weight that leaves. Nullsec is supposed to be a dangerous place... yet the way things are right now, and mostly because of local, its the safest place to do PvE in eve. Hell I was living in hostile space ratting to my hearts content and people there could do buggerall about it. As the OP say you see your enemy in local BEFORE their grid even loads so they have just about zero chance of catching you as long as you pay attention.

If you remove local you will be very much more dependent on scouts, vigilance and first and foremost teamwork to stay reasonably safe... and no, not even that will keep you 100% safe at all times... only from my own experience of nullsecI can say that teamwork not the strong point of nullsec life, at least not outside the blob. Most nullbears will tell you to sodd off and leave "their" system, because you steal their rats. I dont know how many times I have gotten that when I entered a system where someone "friendly" were ratting. So instead of working together the people of nullsec want to do stuff on their own... and removing local would essentially make that a lot harder to do. One thing that would have to change with the removal of local however is cyno mechanics. They would be crazy OP in their current form if local was removed.

Compare that to deep end wormholes where you either work as a team or not at all. People living there keep a constant eye out for trouble, and work to enforce their own safety. It does not always work, but that only makes it more fun. Its a game of cat and mouse in there... and you never know when it starts if you are the cat or the mouse... the roles can change real fast. I have been in fights where you chortled with glee about killing someone, and then 10 seconds later you have your overview filled to the rafters with people you had no idea was there in the first place.

So the bottom line is that I agree with the OP. Local has to go. But if that goes the jump bridges and all that can remain for what I care. If you dont have local then the intel channels will stay dark as long as you dont have any scouts there to see you, so they cant jump ahead anyway.

In general intel is way to easy to get, no matter if it is about towers going up or towers being attacked or local... CCP hands you info on a silver plate... info that you really should have to work hard to obtain... but lets face it... people may SAY they want hard... but when hard comes and bites them in their collective arses they dont appreciate it as much... in fact most people are really risk adverse no matter where you live.

You dont need to drop probes to make a quick scan of a system, depending on the size of the system scanning for possible targets is quite fast and no probes is needed for the initial scan... but I guess that is a skill nullsecers never really use since local will tell you all you need to know at a glance... on the flipside local also alerts anyone in that system to your presence so they can get away before you can do anything.

Personally I think removing local would initially feel really horrible to anyone living in null...it is a major change after all... but after a fairly short amount of time I think you would adapt and even start to like it. The first times I ventured into WH space I was scared... I mean REALLY scared. Now I dont even think about it. Thats just the way it is. On the other hand I get annoyed every time I go out into nullsec and see my ugly face in local the second I get there. Not because of my face, but because everyone and their dog know I am there before my own grid even loads.

I dont think I have heard of a single guy that lives or have been living in WH space that wants local to stay... but perhaps you need to actually live without local to apreciate it. To me local removes something from the game, makes it less than it could and should be...

It is true that local channel is an abheration.
But we all need to have a way to detect ennemies. I think that the local chan should be remove but with modification on the directional scan.
The directional scan should be configurable to automacly scan every 10 to 30 secondes.
It should be able to make the difference between allies and hostiles.
It should have a different max range with a frigate (15AU), a cruiser (20AU), a battleship (30AU) an industrial ship (20AU), or Barge (25AU).
It should be able to detect Cloaked ship.

To counter the Jump Bridges, A new module fittable on commandships should be created to give the possibilty to a fleet commander to make its fleet bridge at short range (about 3 to 5 systems)


I hope these ideas could help.

THIS

Put local on delayed mode for those who actually want to chat.

Learn to hunt with D-Scan, and probes for the rare targets who are off the beaten path.

Local isn't keeping the game alive, any more than training wheels are a needed part of bicycles.
It is holding the game back in much the same way, by dumbing down intel to a common level, and rewarding mediocrity.

Is that what that blinking is.... holy **** that's annoying. Been trying to figure it out all freaking day.

It only seems to happen for me when I am hovering over the local member list. So I think it's bugged up for me.

But ya, that's really ******* annoying.

And it flashes 3 times for each person. Like, even if they want to keep it, ONE flash is enough.

Thanks for all the replies guys. To the fella who told me try Worm Holes, I would love to but I run a corporation and we recently talked over this subject. We collectively agreed that a WH in the capacity that we'd want to do it in would do more harm to our corporate activity than it would bolster it. Thanks for the suggestion though.

To the UK guy, we've looked into FW but I read that shooting people in opposing milita corps will nuke my standings towards the milita they are in? Not 100% if that's true, but I want to keep my corp members friendly with all factions.

I know that JB's and Local are all sensitive subjects. A good portion of people I assume started playing EVE when they were already in place. But once upon a time they didn't exist, and in my honest opinion EVE was more fun without them than with. Yes I can avoid the network, but it also reduces the amount of traffic, therefore removing content for both the said alliance (defending their spaces safety, and for the small gang roamer). And I know that changing local in some way would be very drastic, but it's long overdue, and the longer CCP waits, the harder it will be for people to adapt. A delayed local that lasts just while the person is cloaked would be perfect. Gate campers would still see the flash, bots/bears wouldn't instantly be able to warp away before I even get a chance to hunt, and big fleets still would be seen, unless they all just jumped in immediately.

Valid point, but CCP need to cater to all likes of players, not just one and right now anti-blob groups are not catered to what-so-ever.



From reading this, I assume you're an alt of some major coalition. That's great, but you know what, as long as games have been around there have been people that enjoy having to actually think for themselves unlike people like you are who mindless zombies mashing the F1 key and broadcasting for reps from 20 Scimitars when you get primaried, and eventually alpha'd because the gangs are so big now days. There are many groups of people who enjoy playing this game in smaller groups, not just 100-500 man blobs.



Your arguments are now becoming redundant, "suck it up." I have sucked it up buddy, ever since Jump Bridges were around, which seems like they've been around since you started playing since you're such a staunch defender of them. There was a time when these things were not around. People actually had to defend their space, and couldn't control multiple regions while living in one main system like they do now.

Have you actually ever roamed around 0.0? Probably not because you're too busy using your lazy jump bridges, and following the orders of your basement dwelling alliance leaders. All that aside, take a look around, you'll notice a MAJORITY of 0.0 systems are empty minus the oddball ratter here or there. And you'll also notice when looking at a Sov map that there are many alliances that own a large amount of space, yet are not using it. Why is this? Because they have jump bridges that allow them to quickly get anywhere they need to defend it.

Back in the day, if you wanted to get your freighter through 0.0, you had to escort it. This created a non-static opportunity for small gangs to PVP with the larger alliances. It created teamwork, strategy, and fun on a small scale level. Before jump bridges, alliances had to actually defend their space from the odd-ball roaming gang by using defensive strategies and knowledge of their own space to keep it clean.

So you know what? Why don't you suck it up, and learn to play the game on hard-mode rather than the easy-mode it has been for years.



This isn't even relevant to the discussion. But to tickle the topic, I would say that CCP needs to make 0.0 more profitable, and give incentives for people to be there. At the same time though, they need to make it harder to operate there if they make it more lucrative.

Local helps small gangs avoid the blob. Its key to small gang pvp.

The problem is your view of small gang pvp does not extend past ganking ratters.