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Hulk nerf
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Caruleum Ursa
Orion Ore International
#21 - 2012-08-08 14:58:15 UTC
OK, so now I get it, but I still don't like it.
I was really pissed off because I couldn't undock (due to being overloaded 2-3x of cargo capacity just because of my standard assortment of MINING CRYSTALS).

Now I see that ALL these ships now have GREATLY REDUCED CARGO HOLDs, so you can't undock with a standard set of MINING CRYSTALS. This "upgrade" forces you to explore first, find your spot, and then go back to load one or two sets of mining crystals (rather than your full kit bag of mining crystals).

Instead of a decent cargo hold space for the mining crystals AND ore, you an "itty bitty" cargo hold and some larger "ore holds" for ore only.
The new cargo hold won't even hold a full six pack of beer. Forget about taking any smokes or exotic dancers out there!

In other words, null sec miners will be wasting a LOT of time docking and undocking to change their mining laser crystals.
This still sounds like a NERF to me.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#22 - 2012-08-08 14:59:23 UTC
Toroup wrote:
Bad Axe wrote:
Toroup wrote:
Wow, ok. So if you want the marginally better yield of the Hulk then jetcan it and have a hauler. If you want to solo mine then use the Mack. No reason to be so over dramatic about it. Hulks have better yield but you have to haul to make it work. It's a change, you adapt.

For me personally, I have always jetcanned so it really doesn't matter.



Really?Ugh


Um yeah, what did you do - cram in cargo expander rigs which then lowered your EHP all in the fear of getting flipped? So you can either lose a can of ore valued at 5-6M or you can make your 270M ship weaker and increase the chances of it getting spaced.



Or... 2 cargo expanded rigs, 1 t2 cargo expander mod, 1 dc2 and a little tank in the mid. 13.5 cargo bay and enough tank to survuve the casual ganker. Doc or warp to pos when full. Sure it wasn't the most optimal isk per hour, but i could mine semi afk.
Bad Axe
Innovative Dynamics
#23 - 2012-08-08 15:02:11 UTC
Xearal wrote:
You obviously did not read/check what the new setup is for mining barges and exhumers.

Profurer/Skiff is now the king of tanky mining.

Retriever/Mack is now the king of cargo hold / afk mining.

Covetor/Hulk is (still) the king of Yield. It's meant to be used in large groups with an orca to provide caro space. and/or haulers to move the ore.

You want cargo hold, go for a mack, you want yield, go for a hulk, it has more yield than anything, and now also for ice mining and mercoxit mining. You just have to have a hauler to move your piles of ore.

not a nerf, definitely a boost, as they all also got increased ehp. Just learn how to use the new setups.. and if you're mining in 3 mining ships, you might want to consider using an orca and 2 hulks then, or 3 macks if you really want the cargo space.


May be u right! Now i have to buy another 3 or 5 useless ships.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#24 - 2012-08-08 15:06:23 UTC
People please. It is simple.

Hulk/Covetor = Fleet mining (With Orca support to scoop ore and hold extra mining crystals if needed)
Mack/Retriever = Solo jet can mining without the risk of needing a jet can.


The smaller cargo hold on the Hulk/Covetor is there specifically because they aren't designed to hold the ore they mine. They are supposed to be used in situations where someone else is doing the hauling. Orcas have bays to refit your ships so you can use them to swap/replace mining crystals right there on the belt without needing to warp or lose much mining time at all.

The Mack/Retriever's jet can sized ore bays are designed for solo mining. They are intended to carry their own crystals and haul their own ore. In exchange for the ability to solo, the raw extraction rate is a bit lower.

This makes the choice of solo mining vs fleet mining a viable one. Each has their own advantages and drawbacks and each has a ship now that can fill the role.

Now, look at the prices of macks. Skyrocketing huh? 3 guesses as to what style of mining most players choose.

The hulk has not been nerfed, it just has a new, more defined role. Solo mining in general is getting a massive buff with this update.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Megnamon
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-08-08 15:13:41 UTC
moronv wrote:
Well it looks like my playing days are over, The Hulk has finally been nerfed. Max Ore cargo 8,500 m3 cant expand it any bigger
so when my 3 accounts expire it will be goodbye eve. Well done ccp


So sad to see you go. Can I haz ur stuff?? Big smile
Rengerel en Distel
#26 - 2012-08-08 15:23:02 UTC
You'd think a miner would read any of the other dozens of threads about the changes before they actually took place. Not like any of this is a secret.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-08-08 15:24:32 UTC
Cry more.

Zicon makes popcorn

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
Ghost Frog
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-08-08 15:33:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghost Frog
ITT: people who couldn't be bothered to read several MONTHS worth of posts on the topic

edit: you do realize that you can jettison your ore for immediate pickup, rather than just letting the can sit there, right? You know it's two minutes to jettison another can? You know the mining cycle is longer than that? Are you putting 2+2 together yet?
Teibor
Quay Industries
#29 - 2012-08-08 15:35:25 UTC
Megnamon wrote:
moronv wrote:
Well it looks like my playing days are over, The Hulk has finally been nerfed. Max Ore cargo 8,500 m3 cant expand it any bigger
so when my 3 accounts expire it will be goodbye eve. Well done ccp


So sad to see you go. Can I haz ur stuff?? Big smile


except for the Hulks obviously, let him keep them as a souvenir.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#30 - 2012-08-08 15:39:23 UTC
Caruleum Ursa wrote:
OK, so now I get it, but I still don't like it.
I was really pissed off because I couldn't undock (due to being overloaded 2-3x of cargo capacity just because of my standard assortment of MINING CRYSTALS).

Now I see that ALL these ships now have GREATLY REDUCED CARGO HOLDs, so you can't undock with a standard set of MINING CRYSTALS. This "upgrade" forces you to explore first, find your spot, and then go back to load one or two sets of mining crystals (rather than your full kit bag of mining crystals).

Instead of a decent cargo hold space for the mining crystals AND ore, you an "itty bitty" cargo hold and some larger "ore holds" for ore only.
The new cargo hold won't even hold a full six pack of beer. Forget about taking any smokes or exotic dancers out there!

In other words, null sec miners will be wasting a LOT of time docking and undocking to change their mining laser crystals.
This still sounds like a NERF to me.


Including whats in the strips, a Hulk can hold 4 crystal sets + spares. If you are mining a belt, you already know what to expect in your system. Load in the 4 most likely ore types. If its a grav site, you want to go out and set bookmarks in any case, so take a look to see whats still there, not mined out yet, so you know what crystals to load.

If you are out for so long that the initial 4 sets of crystals are not enough, use whatever hauls in ore to haul out more crystals. If you mine and warp, you can get your own crystals. If a hauler comes out for jet cans, it can drop off crystals on the same trip. A Hulk can hold sufficient crystals to last 2 hours (the lifetime of a jet can). If you use an orca in the belt, have it carry the extras.

I use to keep all my spare crystals in the orca. I did that so I could move ore to the orca by clicking in the hulk hold, hit control-a, drag it all to the orca. If crystals were in the hulk, they would get moved too. Now with crystals separate from the ore I can keep crystals in the hulk. When one pops I can get a new one in much faster, keeping all the strips synchronized. (Keeping strips synchronized helps when you run multiple clients on a laptop. You do not have to keep switching back and forth between clients to catch the miner cycles.)

Short version: For me this is a buff all the way, and crystal management is only a small issue, and for me actually better.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Malsavias Toralen
lolpercorp
#31 - 2012-08-08 15:40:08 UTC
Hey, neat trick, run 2 hulks with a retriever or a Mack, insta mining hauler.
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-08-08 15:48:58 UTC
Caruleum Ursa wrote:
MINERS WERE DECEIVED by promo for the INFERNO RELEASE !

They promoted this new release as an IMPROVEMENT for MINING, but...
CCP SHRUNK THE SIZE OF HULK CARGO HOLDS FROM ~1000+ to ~350k.
HULK PILOTS cannot even keep replacement sets of mining lasers in their Cargo Holds, anymore.

HULK is now essentially WORTHLESS for multi-purpose mining.
There is no reason to train for HULK, anymore, imho.

IMHO, this will be remembered as one of the biggest nerfs in the history of EvE.

Who would ever even want to buy a HULK, anymore?
It doesn't even have HOLD big enough for the MINING CRYSTALS!
Oh, wai... it's ALSO supposed to MINE STUFF? OMG OMG OMG.

But, fear not,... YES, they buffed the smaller versions so you can now go into combat with your SKIFF and MACKINAW.
HA HA HA - I get the joke. But, it's a cruel joke for those who earn isk by mining.

Time to SELL YOUR MINING CHAR!
[Or, I guess you could buy a MACK and improve it with some T/P TECH.]

BAH, HUMBUG!
So much time WASTED in training up for the NOW WORTHLESS HULKS!


WAAAA cant carry 30 crystal's any more meaning you have to plan out what you mine cry some more!!

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
CowNoseTheCat
I Love Kitties
#33 - 2012-08-08 15:49:42 UTC
Much has been said in this thread that I won't repeat, however I would like to chime in and say that this pilot will continue to use her hulk and I don't see my game changing much at all!
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#34 - 2012-08-08 15:53:11 UTC
This has been entertaining. I am out of popcorn.
Ghost Frog
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-08-08 16:08:26 UTC
Malsavias Toralen wrote:
Hey, neat trick, run 2 hulks with a retriever or a Mack, insta mining hauler.

How dare you think for yourself?
Alyssa SaintCroix
Leihkasse Stammheim
#36 - 2012-08-08 16:29:31 UTC
Maybe it's just me but I'm curious where you were looking for Macks at because for the longest time I've only ever seen them at ~200mil/piece.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#37 - 2012-08-08 16:56:41 UTC
Ok, so lets assume the OP has had a nervious breakdown and the Hulk is still a useful ship. Any ideas on re-arranging a fit that boosted max cargo to something else? No need to be tank heavy.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Bommel McMurdoc
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-08-08 17:17:52 UTC
I'm finding it very hard to swallow this ..... rage. especially with the name "moronv."
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-08-08 17:29:38 UTC
Dear CCP,
My cookie cutter broke, i dont know what to do now, i have these choices to make and i am confused, what is this Fleet mining Ops? Please fix my cookie cutter so i dont have to think.
confused lasy miner

Now for the real talk, i love the changes, i dont fit for max yeald, so the 8500m3 ore bay is perfect for 2 full cycles, i even traded my mackinaw for a second hulk, i get a good tank also with the medium overclocking rig, and still have the calabration for the ice mining rig. I am looking forward to more changes, including the idea of removing off grid boostiing

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-08-08 17:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Javajunky
Caruleum Ursa wrote:
MINERS WERE DECEIVED by promo for the INFERNO RELEASE !

They promoted this new release as an IMPROVEMENT for MINING, but...
CCP SHRUNK THE SIZE OF HULK CARGO HOLDS FROM ~1000+ to ~350k.
HULK PILOTS cannot even keep replacement sets of mining lasers in their Cargo Holds, anymore.

HULK is now essentially WORTHLESS for multi-purpose mining.
There is no reason to train for HULK, anymore, imho.

IMHO, this will be remembered as one of the biggest nerfs in the history of EvE.

Who would ever even want to buy a HULK, anymore?
It doesn't even have HOLD big enough for the MINING CRYSTALS!
Oh, wai... it's ALSO supposed to MINE STUFF? OMG OMG OMG.

But, fear not,... YES, they buffed the smaller versions so you can now go into combat with your SKIFF and MACKINAW.
HA HA HA - I get the joke. But, it's a cruel joke for those who earn isk by mining.

Time to SELL YOUR MINING CHAR!
[Or, I guess you could buy a MACK and improve it with some T/P TECH.]

BAH, HUMBUG!
So much time WASTED in training up for the NOW WORTHLESS HULKS!



None of you saw this post where I was raging about this for like a month?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1687869#post1687869

This had nothing to do with people who mine as a profession, we all got the big middle finger from CCP on this you have to realize it. This was purely empire pubbie love pure and simple.

The only people who aren't complaining about this is empire pubbies, because they know its a null sec nerf and it doesn't bother them one bit they only mine empire ores... they have never had to flip a grav site...