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Make players pay for CONCORD/crimewatch protection

Author
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#1 - 2012-08-08 08:54:50 UTC
There's too many advantages and not enough disadvantages with generating wealth in Highsec. If player want the protection afforded by Local Navy and CONCORD there should be a heavy price for that.

CONCORD/Crimewatch becomes a voluntary sign on, the cost of which is a daily tax on the value of ALL assets held by that character in Highsec. Also any items traded or bought by the character from a non CONCORD payee/opt-out is taxed (to avoid workarounds using alt mules). Think of them as property and sales taxes to pay for CONCORD's operations.

Corporation hangers in Highsec can either offer access to CONCORD payees/Opt-Ins or by Opt-out(those that lack protection and taxes) but never both.

Assets held in Lowsec, Nullsec, and WH space is unaffected.

Overview would display those that have CONCORD/crimewatch protection and those that don't. Character standings would be displayed again so that Faction Navy protection can be ascertained as well.

The tax rate at a minimum would be around 20% of their assets over a month period, but dived and taxed daily at downtime. Alternatively it could be made "progressive" and offer 0% tax for those with little wealth/assets (newbies for instance) but tax the mega wealthy much higher than 20% at the high levels of asset value.

Faction Navy should cease responses on any Crimewatch covered action where the "victim" has negative standings with the associated Faction.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#2 - 2012-08-08 09:12:04 UTC
I dunno, it would be easier to change when concord would show up, like when a ship was actually destroyed, simply attacking a ship would only occur a fine. This would promote high sec piracy while still providing some protection.
Another thought is to make a new FW style play that let's players become crime watch personnel in the respect that they can attack and pod any yellow that is in high sec without concord intervention, on the flip side though any yellow could attack and pod any member of the crime watch players with out any concord intervention

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#3 - 2012-08-08 09:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Griffin Omanid
You already make more profit in low and no sec. So when there is a tax for concord then there also must be some Officer-Rats, high value ores and other nice 0.0 stuff in the High sec.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#4 - 2012-08-08 10:10:48 UTC
There´s a reason why its called high-sec.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2012-08-08 13:16:10 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I dunno, it would be easier to change when concord would show up, like when a ship was actually destroyed, simply attacking a ship would only occur a fine.



Actually, this is probably one of the best "nerf CONCORD" ideas I've ever seen on the forums...

To take it a little farther :

1. you shoot someone... you get unauthorised aggression fine
2. Navy shows up (using current CONCORD spawn mechanics), and scrams you
3a. You die (guy successfully defended himself) ... your punishment has been meted out
3b. You kill the target ... CONCORD shows up to take care of you.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#6 - 2012-08-08 13:40:56 UTC
Look, I hate to poke holes in anyone's ideas, especially since I happen to think this one is decent.

Forget right or wrong. Forget about whether people would enjoy it if they gave it a chance.

If people perceive that high sec is going to cost them ISK to keep the protections they had for free, they will be unhappy.
Unhappy leads to all kinds of BS arguments based on poor research and false facts, and ultimately too many would unsub over it.
The irony, which we would observe after the fact, is that many who did leave would not if they had the facts right, but when has that stopped anyone?

The only change I would specify, is that taxed assets and wealth must be progressive, and only recognize assets in high sec itself.
I would state some might want a way to localize their ISK outside of high sec, so it would not be included in the figure. To them I say this, go buy plex and store em in low or null sec. Convert enough ISK into PLEX, and it won't hit you.
Now, you get the risk of having this in low or null, but we like risk.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#7 - 2012-08-08 14:39:04 UTC
Concord protection fees based on my owned assets? That just means that my main never owns more than the ship he's flying, and the rest is held by an alt that never undocks. When it comes time to pay the Concord "tax", I transfer all my assets between characters so that I pay a tax on a rookie ship, and then get everything back where I want it.

This is one of those ideas that sounds good until people like me get hold of it. It's not a mechanic that is fair to single-character players who have managed to acquire a lot of assets.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-08-08 14:41:38 UTC
Xorv wrote:
There's too many advantages and not enough disadvantages with generating wealth in Highsec. If player want the protection afforded by Local Navy and CONCORD there should be a heavy price for that.



You start playing EvE with what? 5,000 ISK?

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.

Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#9 - 2012-08-08 16:45:27 UTC
1) Not fair to new or broke players.
2) Not fair to a player who has played for a long time, owns a lot of stuff, but doesn't make much or play often.
3) Highsec incursions have been over nerfed to the point of CCP Soundwave tears:

CSM Minutes (pg87) wrote:
Soundwave sheepishly mentioned CCP broke incursions and showed the CSM a graph depicting the drop off in incursions activity. There were many "Ohhh snaps" around the table. Ripard Teg's analysis of incursion activity pre/post patch was mentioned by the CSM. The massive drop off of Vanguard sites was praised since they were relatively risk-free ISK.
...
Soundwave pointed out that people do die in incursions at rates higher than some other kinds of PvE content. He felt the main driver of incursions was social in nature, and the group PvE that the incursion sites provided was a good thing. The loss of it made him "a little bit sad" so fixes to denerf incursions would come out in June.
Anomalies are now the top ISK faucets.


Mission and drone loot has been nerfed causing a huge rise in mineral (everything?) prices. The price estimator also accidentally nerfed missions IMHO, crashing the value of meta 4 items.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#10 - 2012-08-08 17:12:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Concord protection fees based on my owned assets? That just means that my main never owns more than the ship he's flying, and the rest is held by an alt that never undocks. When it comes time to pay the Concord "tax", I transfer all my assets between characters so that I pay a tax on a rookie ship, and then get everything back where I want it.

This is one of those ideas that sounds good until people like me get hold of it. It's not a mechanic that is fair to single-character players who have managed to acquire a lot of assets.


Floppie you clearly didn't read my whole post, because had you done so you wouldn't be all gung ho about how you found a hole in it that in reality was covered in the OP. Not saying there isn't problems with it, but what you posted isn't one of them.

Xorv wrote:

CONCORD/Crimewatch becomes a voluntary sign on, the cost of which is a daily tax on the value of ALL assets held by that character in Highsec. Also any items traded or bought by the character from a non CONCORD payee/opt-out is taxed (to avoid workarounds using alt mules). Think of them as property and sales taxes to pay for CONCORD's operations.

Corporation hangers in Highsec can either offer access to CONCORD payees/Opt-Ins or by Opt-out(those that lack protection and taxes) but never both.


Other criticisms addressed:

"It isn't fair to new players" - already answered with the possibility of a progressive tax system

"Will make players unhappy" - So? Doesn't matter what CCP does or doesn't do they cannot satisfy the full spectrum of players. Every idea and suggestion in these forums makes some happy and others unhappy.

"It's called Highsec" - Yeah great, and now you pay for that high security.
Astroniomix
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-08-08 17:20:54 UTC
OK, but you have to give highsec 0.0 ore, officer spawns, buff the incurstion payouts to nullsec levels, and move all of my assets into lowsec for me.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#12 - 2012-08-08 17:55:40 UTC
All that means is I got to be creative in how I transfer assets to an alt. Things like abandoning stuff in a jet can at a safe spot.

High secers already pay for their security.

Tax on PI
Sales tax on market transactions (can be zero in a null sec outpost)
Belts limited in ore types
No moon mining
POSes require charters
Missions pay less
Incursuions pay less
Rats are worth less, and no officers
Anomalies are worth less
Cosmic sigs are worth less

So sure, equalize all of that and we'll talk.

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Frozen fanfiction

Dring Dingle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-10-17 16:40:37 UTC
Interesting...

tho instead of an asset based cost.. what a bout a Skill point based tax. high skills = higher tax. It could be leveld as well. pay more = quicker responce time.
The "status" of someones concord protection level would be somthing that could not be veiwed or found out tho. so if you wanted to gank you would still need to take the risk.
Taranius De Consolville
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-10-17 16:41:52 UTC
-1

Another PvP'er trying to rinse more high sec players for ISK making them easy targets

If u want PvP, go to null/low sec and leave well meaning high sec dwellers alone
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#15 - 2012-10-17 17:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Angeal MacNova
Not too bad of an idea except...

Hired protection should be for corps.

High sec npc corps all charge tax (at least I haven't seen any that didn't) and so you could say that they automatically hire Concord. This is good for beginners since you start belonging to an NPC corp.

As for player owned corps. It becomes up to the individual player corp to decide if they wish to buy into the protection. I'd imagine most indy corps would and of course they will recoup this cost by charging more for their products.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
#16 - 2012-10-17 17:42:52 UTC
Taxes in high need to be raised ALOT. I am fine with making hisec very safe for players that want it. But it has to cost a TON for empires and concord (figuratively of course) to pay for that safety...of course they would pass the bill on to the hisec pilots. TAxes for hisec everything should be increased on npc corps especially. Give players more incentives to get out of hisec and into low and nulsec! Or enjoy hisec and the bills that come with it.

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nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-10-18 01:03:46 UTC
oh here we go again more low sec and 0.0 cry babys trying to say "Play our way" sad really.

All you need to learn that its a sand box and if people dont want to play in you end of the box deal with it.

High secer pay alot in tax and some stated allready now do us a huge favor and STFU.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-10-18 01:24:11 UTC
Baroness Vulna wrote:
Taxes in high need to be raised ALOT. I am fine with making hisec very safe for players that want it. But it has to cost a TON for empires and concord (figuratively of course) to pay for that safety...of course they would pass the bill on to the hisec pilots. TAxes for hisec everything should be increased on npc corps especially. Give players more incentives to get out of hisec and into low and nulsec! Or enjoy hisec and the bills that come with it.



And yet another dumb idea of do this to get more people into low sec and 0.0. Has anyone ever thought why alot of people dont go into low sec or 0.0.

I have heard countless time "I went to move to 0.0 and they stole my stuff they said they were going to transport for me with a carrier or jump freighter to there home station and they just told me oh well guess your f'd". Oh and one more point of 0.0 life i have read count less times "you join this 0.0 Allinace you have to be ready at anytime to log in and fight for our sov. we dont care if its 4am and have to get up in 2 hour for the real world if your not your getted kick out and lock out the station."

Its things like that push's people from going into 0.0. Well then there low sec i to travel some time to time i travel into low sec for diffent reasons but i go cloaked why because 80% of the time there a gate camp. Who why would anyone head into low sec with there a good % you jumping into low sec you wont even get off the first gate.

Low sec and 0.0 players like to ***** alot about high sec and why there so many people there well its your fault for makeing some thing most dont want to be apart of or they dont have the time to be apart of.

I have know alot of great people i talk to that live in low and 0.0 fun to talk to but when to comes play style they can be real jerks and thats some reason people hate low sec and 0.0.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#19 - 2012-10-18 04:22:37 UTC
Tax for concord protection in hi-sec is like tax for ganking anywhere else.

Base lining tax on the value of all assets either way will not go down very well.

Imagine a world where players had to pay out the full value of a ganked ship and modules per gank.... and everybody on the killmail had to pay that value.

The rage would be legendary.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-10-18 10:46:49 UTC
Griffin Omanid wrote:
You already make more profit in low and no sec.


You don't, actually.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

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