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Arek'Jaalan

Author
Niko medes
Freeman Technologies
#1 - 2012-08-08 03:06:46 UTC
It's been on my mind for the past several weeks. Such a grand effort that has basically gone stagnant as the months have progressed. With the understanding that the developer who made Arek'Jaalan possible, resigned from CCP during this project's baby steps, where can we go from where we stand now?

Is it in the hands of the players now? If so, how can we actively and efficiently make Arek'Jaalan something worth working on again? Any ideas?


If it is not in the hands of the players (I do believe I heard some new devs are catching up on content), what can we expect and when can we expect involvement in this project?

In my brief time in the Arek'Jaalan channel, speaking with community members, having grand talks about theories, ect ect. I have come to realize that though we are all waiting for something or someone.. We are all extremely interested and committed to this project, some much more so than others due to long periods of involvement. It's a grand community with grand potential, it just needs some direction.. hence why the questions.


Look forward to hearing from players, Arek'Jaalan members, and/or devs alike.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-08-08 06:25:13 UTC
What kind of research there could be, if you can't even make a wrench out of tritanium?

Well, closer to the topic. IMHO if you would like to revive the Arek'Jaalan, you need to make some sort of opposition, like Ishukone subsidiaries, or maybe defenders of Sleepers, CONCORD, etc. Just whatever that have different point of view than Arek'Jaalan, so both sides will scream that their opponents are evil and must be destroyed. When you succeed in gathering a team 'to gank dat freighter', there will be much more interest to both sides of conflict from both players and devs.

Hidden suggesion to devs: make wrench BPO.
Oops, not hidden anymore. P

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Anslo
Scope Works
#3 - 2012-08-08 14:08:20 UTC
imo it will stay stagnant because CCP isn't driving the story. No matter what people do, there is zero guarantee that a months worth of work and RP will become cannon and drive the story. We can explore and experiment all we want, but unless a GM for the event happens to be looking and throws us a bone in the form of a message or screenshot or something, it's dead in the water. I've talked to others and many feel it's stagnant for this very reason; no mods or CCP people, no reason to continue, as nothing big will happen. It just feels pointless.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Tykari
The Observatory
#4 - 2012-08-08 14:37:55 UTC
Doing research is difficult. We don't have any tools to do research really. We can make theories and guesses on the Sleepers, Talocan, Rogue Drones etc. using some of the limited info available in he game but that is it really. We can't simply compare two components and see if they are similar. We can't determine the age of artifacts and confirm how old it is. We can't board the Sleeper Enclaves and investigate was is inside.

We, the players, are making this stuff up as we go along and as we see it fit in with what we know and learn in the game. Some of it ends up completely off the mark, some of it is damn close to what CCP was thinking. We only know if we're right because of outside sources, like books or chronicles etc. There is nothing happening in game that tells us "Ha! We were right!" or "Damn! We were so wrong about this."

With all the tidbits out there many figured the Sleepers and/or Talocan were part of the Jove or related to them. Templar One confirmed that the Sleepers are essentially a faction of Jove that broke of their main empire. The Talocan are still a mystery in terms of where they fit in. Separate dead civilisation or not?

The Talocan race was rumoured to be masters of spatial manipulation. Most people, when reading that, were thinking of them capable of folding space, creating wormholes building theories around that. Some looking at the static gates as wormhole generators or something. The Inferno chronicle tells us they not only could they do it, they even were able to use that folded space to make advanced computing systems and who knows what else.

The finding of Yan Jung era engine components in w-space and finding a match with archived pieces from archaeological digs...

In some of these cases I can't help but wonder why not use AJ and the players to get this knowledge out there. I know it's easier to put it in a chronicle and have everyone read it but AJ is indeed useless if we're going to get spoon fed all the info anyway. In fact why bother letting major stuff happen in live events? Just write it into a chron say it happened and be done with it.


As for driving conflict. The Empires and major corporations are doing covert research on all things w-space, in some cases profiting from it quite well. AJ is a public forum that gives out information freely. If AJ brings out new revelations that level the playing field again nobody can gain an advantage. Some factions would want to prevent that, while others migth want to ensure that nobody can gain a clear advantage.

The Sleepers aren't dead or gone. They are alive. We are killing them. If AJ found out and told everyone, who would want to save them/protect them? Who wouldn't care and continue to profit? What if the Sleepers retaliate? AJ might serve as a line of defense having researched them and finding weaknesses, methods of communicating to explain things. Diplomatic overtures with a new Empire that again, some would support, others might sabotage.

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Anslo
Scope Works
#5 - 2012-08-08 14:47:28 UTC
Tykari wrote:

The Sleepers aren't dead or gone. They are alive. We are killing them. If AJ found out and told everyone, who would want to save them/protect them? Who wouldn't care and continue to profit? What if the Sleepers retaliate? AJ might serve as a line of defense having researched them and finding weaknesses, methods of communicating to explain things. Diplomatic overtures with a new Empire that again, some would support, others might sabotage.


This. But like I said, with no CCP'ers confirming anything or driving anything, why bother? People would just say "prove it," and troll you hard. If we could interact, interface, hell just freaking DOCK with one of the stupid blue chrome oversized pancakes, maybe then. As of now, the story line to me is just boring. Same old wars, same old nut jobs, same old boring humanity. I want to see the sleepers get pissed off and toss one of their Titans over CONCORD space and blow a planet up with a destabalized wormhole or black hole at the planet's core with the only way to stop it being AJ going full force with caps and sub caps blasting the thing back to Kingdom come.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#6 - 2012-08-08 15:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
AJ was founded as a non partisan venture. It is not there to retaliate or engage in military research... It's charter is clear on that..

Actually, the only thing that is clear about what AJ was SUPPOSED to do was to disseminate information collected by the Capsuleer community and spread that information in a free and unbiased fashion to any who found a non-partisan use for said information.

The problem was, the capsuleers involved could never agree on what the information we collected meant. Many times it was the partisan attitudes of those involved who stymied it's efforts..

As you say, "prove it" became the catch phrase. Unfortunately, archeology is not that kind of science.. Such as with many Earth bound efforts, everyone who "knew" is dead and gone, no way to "prove it". Like the societies who died out from using lead eating utensils, they might have died from lead poisoning, but, we really have no way of knowing, as most of the tissue that might hold the proof has been long eaten away by the worms..

Elliciting proof of cultural and religious specifics is even harder.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Tykari
The Observatory
#7 - 2012-08-08 16:31:09 UTC
Roga Dracor wrote:
AJ was founded as a non partisan venture. It is not there to retaliate or engage in military research... It's charter is clear on that..

Actually, the only thing that is clear about what AJ was SUPPOSED to do was to disseminate information collected by the Capsuleer community and spread that information in a free and unbiased fashion to any who found a non-partisan use for said information.

The problem was, the capsuleers involved could never agree on what the information we collected meant. Many times it was the partisan attitudes of those involved who stymied it's efforts..

As you say, "prove it" became the catch phrase. Unfortunately, archeology is not that kind of science.. Such as with many Earth bound efforts, everyone who "knew" is dead and gone, no way to "prove it". Like the societies who died out from using lead eating utensils, they might have died from lead poisoning, but, we really have no way of knowing, as most of the tissue that might hold the proof has been long eaten away by the worms..

Elliciting proof of cultural and religious specifics is even harder.


True it was founded as a neutral non combat entity. Yet we have a security division, meaning we do have means to defend ourselves if there is no other course of action left.

Also from the mission statement:

Quote:
It should be emphasized that Arek’Jaalan does not aim to produce new technologies, and in particular that we take an active stance against any further weaponization of Sleeper or other technologies. We aim for something more benign and progressive.


Taking an active stance to prevent Sleeper tech from being weaponized. Now while that doesn't mention military action it's not ruling it out either. Yes AJ is aiming for some more and something better. But this is EVE, where nobody is a Saint and everyone has to make compromises on their ideals. What if AJ, if need be through covert means, could prevent another entity, be it Amarr, Caldari,... or Serpentis, Guristas,.... from getting their hands on another weapon like the Terran superweapon?

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying AJ should become a military entity or anything. But I don't think one should consider AJ to be just some old professors sitting in labs and archives quietly minding their own business. I like that AJ isn't simply about spreading armageddon throughout the EVE cluster for some goal or another, that doesn't mean that we can't be forced to get our hands dirty once in a while.

If an AJ convoy carrying valuable research material/equipment gets attacked by say, the Sansha or the Angel Cartel, does the rest of AJ just sit by and let it happen? Or do we intervene, and once the battle is over figure out, why that convoy holding those materials was attacked? What did they need, why? How does it fit in with what else we've learned?

In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.

Anslo
Scope Works
#8 - 2012-08-08 17:28:21 UTC
Roga Dracor wrote:
AJ was founded as a non partisan venture.


Yeah, non-partisan lol. With egos like Revan Neferis and others abounding, that was likely to happen. RPers play their characters as super-egotistical. They're "superior." So no big surprise their narcissism got in the way of....anything.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-08-09 19:58:44 UTC
Tykari wrote:
Doing research is difficult. We don't have any tools to do research really. We can make theories and guesses on the Sleepers, Talocan, Rogue Drones etc. using some of the limited info available in he game but that is it really.

Well, this isn't research.
When you do research, you collect facts (that can be collected by independent researchers and will give the same results), you make experiments to find features, then you make hypothesis (your guess) to conform these facts, and then you have to prove it by experiment, that will give fact that either prove or contradict it. To make a science you need scientific methods and approach.
When there is no possibility to make experiment (or gave by other means) fact that will prove or refute your theory or guess, then it isn't science, but philosophy, or alchemy, or metaphysics, or theology, well you got the idea.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.