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UPdatedCcpLookPLS Why does FW reward those who lose or flee from fights in Plexes? Faction Warfare
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Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#1 - 2012-08-07 16:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Book
The winner of the plex has to run down the normal time plus the time the loser of the plex gained on it. This seems to promote less fights than more to me. I would like to at least see the winner of the plex take over the timer, whatever that maybe to capture or secure it.

Please look at ways to make faction warfare actual warfare than just farmville. This change would actually make people consider defending the plex instead of just leaving it. Reward the person who fights not the person who loses or flees.

We all know the current plex system has many flaws. Do not get me wrong. It is a lot better than what we had before.

These posts are all about brain storming sometimes and to that end I believe Super Chair has a better idea than mine.

Super Chair wrote:
The only changes plexing needs are :

1) If timer is untouched for a period of time, it will eventually reset to a "neutral" state. This is so that farmers, who just warp out and move onto another system to farm are not rewarded because since they ran away they have to start over.

2) Kill all npcs as a prerequisite to capture offensive plexers (INB4 whiners saying "OMG DONT FORCE PVE ON US BY FORCING US TO KILL NPCS!", tough sh*t, the real pvpers looking for fights kill them so NPCs don't interfere with the fight. The fact is you want to farm, not fight because you'd be killing npcs if you were in a plex looking for fights).
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#2 - 2012-08-07 17:07:02 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:


The winner of the plex has to run down the normal time plus the time the loser of the plex gained on it. This seems to promote less fights than more to me. I would like to at least see the winner of the plex take over the timer, whatever that maybe to capture or secure it.

Please look at ways to make faction warfare actual warfare than just farmville. This change would actually make people consider defending the plex instead of just leaving it. Reward the person who fights not the person who loses or flees.

We all know the current plex system has many flaws. Do not get me wrong. It is a lot better than what we had before.

But that would be dumb.
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#3 - 2012-08-07 17:50:15 UTC
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Shepard Book wrote:


The winner of the plex has to run down the normal time plus the time the loser of the plex gained on it. This seems to promote less fights than more to me. I would like to at least see the winner of the plex take over the timer, whatever that maybe to capture or secure it.

Please look at ways to make faction warfare actual warfare than just farmville. This change would actually make people consider defending the plex instead of just leaving it. Reward the person who fights not the person who loses or flees.

We all know the current plex system has many flaws. Do not get me wrong. It is a lot better than what we had before.

But that would be dumb.



Nice sarcasm P Too many ways to farm FW and not enough features helping to make fights IMO.
David Campbell
Primas Custos
#4 - 2012-08-07 18:18:10 UTC
I can see a lot of defensive plexing alts farming timers in their own space without being shot at by npc or militiamen and once they are pretty much done, the enemy main character comes in and cash-in on the LP.

Nice farming system you got there...
Ctzn Snips
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-08-07 19:48:41 UTC
It's a balance. Whoever gets into the plex first has the obvious advantage, whether it's friendly or enemy territory. The system controllers have the added advantage of having ships in system, or nearby to counter what the enemy has.

Vlillirier was a perfect example the past week of how the system was designed to work in my opinion. It was absolute warfare. Gallente were trying to hold it and Caldari trying very hard to take it. We knew the reset timers of the plexes, so we'd prepare accordingly with close range armor ships of the proper size for the plex, and jump into it right when it popped. Squids would show up with the right size ships, or maybe they'd be in the right ships for the next plex to open to jump into it before we had an opportunity to counter. Either way if they got in first with their sniper ships and sat on the button, we didn't stand a chance. If we got in first with our armor brawlers and sat on the warp-in, they'd get destroyed.

If you don't want to defend your plex, don't defend it. Have fun moving your stuff out of the system when it's vulnerable.
Ctzn Snips
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-08-07 19:50:00 UTC
David Campbell wrote:
I can see a lot of defensive plexing alts farming timers in their own space without being shot at by npc or militiamen and once they are pretty much done, the enemy main character comes in and cash-in on the LP.

Nice farming system you got there...



So your saying that a militia pilot runs a minor plex for 9 minutes, then brings in the opponent militia alt and runs it for 19 minutes to cap it...

Working as intended.
Generals4
#7 - 2012-08-07 19:51:46 UTC
David Campbell wrote:
I can see a lot of defensive plexing alts farming timers in their own space without being shot at by npc or militiamen and once they are pretty much done, the enemy main character comes in and cash-in on the LP.

Nice farming system you got there...


Please explain how that works. I want all the details and tell me when you realized this made no sense.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
David Campbell
Primas Custos
#8 - 2012-08-07 19:58:18 UTC
I was referring to what would happen if the OP's system were to ever see the light of day. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Generals4
#9 - 2012-08-07 20:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Generals4
David Campbell wrote:
I was referring to what would happen if the OP's system were to ever see the light of day. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.


Ow my apologies than. I didn't see the "i can see..." as a hypothetical, i thought it was just a statement. But Yeah the OP's idea is broken.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#10 - 2012-08-07 20:07:07 UTC
how to fix plexing:
- remove LP payout for plexing in vulnerable systems
- timers should reset (slowly) if you leave the flag
- remove defensive plexing; systems recover automatically if there is no push to take them (balancing would take some time)
- -> defensive plexing is now reduced to pvp, kill people or make sure they don't plex

this will reduce farming, encourage pvp and make things more dynamic -> more fun

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Rigel Vex
Hull Warning
#11 - 2012-08-07 21:11:23 UTC
Plexing is fine. Get over it. It's a massive improvement. PVP has never been higher!Twisted
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#12 - 2012-08-07 21:33:07 UTC
Bienator II wrote:

- remove defensive plexing; systems recover automatically if there is no push to take them (balancing would take some time)

What kind of time period would be reasonable for a system to recover, though?
Someone could run a single plex once every 4 hours (or whatever time period is 'reasonable') in Okkamon and since there's "active plexing" taking place as defined by the time period and no defensive plexing available, you could flip an enemy's home system over an extended period of time and there would be nothing they could do about it.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#13 - 2012-08-07 21:34:28 UTC
Rigel Vex wrote:
Plexing is fine. Get over it. It's a massive improvement. PVP has never been higher!Twisted

plexing was fun the first few weeks after the patch where everyone used pvp ships for it. Now it has been reduced to farming with non combat pve ships.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#14 - 2012-08-07 21:41:25 UTC
Shadow Adanza wrote:
Bienator II wrote:

- remove defensive plexing; systems recover automatically if there is no push to take them (balancing would take some time)

What kind of time period would be reasonable for a system to recover, though?
Someone could run a single plex once every 4 hours (or whatever time period is 'reasonable') in Okkamon and since there's "active plexing" taking place as defined by the time period and no defensive plexing available, you could flip an enemy's home system over an extended period of time and there would be nothing they could do about it.


right its certainly hard to balance. However you can clearly see that currently systems slowly 'creap' into vulunerable since nobody wants to waste the time to decontest them. It woks well if you have a few systems to protect but does not scale. CCP could still allow defensive plexing addionally to a slow automatic recovery. This automatic recovery should be slow enough to not influence dedicated ops like "lets take this system this week".

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Dan Carter Murray
#15 - 2012-08-07 21:44:00 UTC
if you want to pvp, go fight on someone's front porch.

this last weekend a metric sh*t ton of pvp occurred in vlillirier while pushing to take the system.

oh and imagine that...they defensive plexed to get it back down because THEY DIDN'T WANT TO LOSE THE SYSTEM.

here are 2 pictures from "Welcome to Faction Warfare"

defensive plexing:
http://imgur.com/a/oUUXy#28

offensive plexing:
http://imgur.com/a/oUUXy#61

and no, systems should not recover automatically. if you don't want to lose the system, then defensive plex or fight tooth and nail for every plex in your home system when the time comes.

"but i don't want to do things that are important, but don't reward me"
slash me slaps the sh*t out of you

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#16 - 2012-08-08 00:01:32 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
if you want to pvp, go fight on someone's front porch.

this last weekend a metric sh*t ton of pvp occurred in vlillirier while pushing to take the system.

oh and imagine that...they defensive plexed to get it back down because THEY DIDN'T WANT TO LOSE THE SYSTEM.

here are 2 pictures from "Welcome to Faction Warfare"

defensive plexing:
http://imgur.com/a/oUUXy#28

offensive plexing:
http://imgur.com/a/oUUXy#61

and no, systems should not recover automatically. if you don't want to lose the system, then defensive plex or fight tooth and nail for every plex in your home system when the time comes.

"but i don't want to do things that are important, but don't reward me"
slash me slaps the sh*t out of you


works great for home systems but it does not scale. The amarr vs minmatar situation clearly shows that the system is broken. (also.. the defender has statistically a greater time effort as the offender btw)

amarr have like 4 systems which can be easily defended.. and around 50 systems which are vulnerable and ready to flip.

why? because this forces minies into the most boring game mechanic eve has to offer: defensive plexing. And guess what.. they are not doing it, thats why all those vulnerable systems will stick there forever till they are flipped.

defending home systems is fun, but i was not talking about home systems. (you will have to defend home systems even if there would be automatic recovery in place)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Dan Carter Murray
#17 - 2012-08-08 01:08:54 UTC
Bienator II wrote:


amarr have like 4 systems which can be easily defended.. and around 50 systems which are vulnerable and ready to flip.

why? because this forces minies into the most boring game mechanic eve has to offer: defensive plexing. And guess what.. they are not doing it, thats why all those vulnerable systems will stick there forever till they are flipped.

defending home systems is fun, but i was not talking about home systems. (you will have to defend home systems even if there would be automatic recovery in place)


So it seems like the whole war zone exchanging hands is working perfectly. Keep in mind Minmatar has had the ability to LP to t5 from day 1.

Now people are unhappy that it's not going to stay like that forever?

Caldari militia dumped to T5 and T4 very recently (T4 recently for "whothef*ckunderstandsthatlogic" reasoning).

Gallente militia dumped to T4 as well (maybe T5 I don't know for sure).

If the systems are vulnerable, so be it.

In fact, f*ck it. I like the fact that a system can go into infinite vulnerability because let the militias decide when they want to swap control.

If you don't like the big red bar on your screen then defensive plex.

Also regarding "the most boring game mechanic eve has to offer": WHY THE F*CK DIDN'T PEOPLE GO FIGHT THE WTs CONTESTING THE SYSTEMS THEN?

Answer: "OH WE THOUGHT SASAWONG WAS GOING TO DEFEND EVERY PLEX...I MEAN I SAW IT IN A PICTURE SOMEWHERE http://i.imgur.com/qShFU.png

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#18 - 2012-08-08 03:55:09 UTC
[quote=David Campbell]I can see a lot of defensive plexing alts farming timers in their own space without being shot at by npc or militiamen and once they are pretty much done, the enemy main character comes in and cash-in on the LP.

Nice farming system you got there...[/q] Last I checked faction warfare was supposed to be about PvP not Pve.
David Campbell
Primas Custos
#19 - 2012-08-08 05:49:10 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:
David Campbell wrote:
I can see a lot of defensive plexing alts farming timers in their own space without being shot at by npc or militiamen and once they are pretty much done, the enemy main character comes in and cash-in on the LP.

Nice farming system you got there...
Last I checked faction warfare was supposed to be about PvP not Pve.


If your system were to be implemented, that is what I see happening. Easier LP farming by 1 day old alts that don't even need to train a single skill. Please, enlighten me, how is this PvP ?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-08-08 06:05:58 UTC
Because plexes are for fights, not for ninjas/farmers.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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