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My take on the "This game is going carebear, I'm quitting!" attitude as of late.
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Herr Hammer Draken
#21 - 2012-08-07 07:13:51 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:

3) Hunters go where the prey are. Hence, the high sec ganking. It's not that pirates LIKE this mode of play. Most don't. But it's the only way for them to access targets.

4) The idea that the situation is the way that it is due to 'over fishing' of targets by pirates: not the case. It's CCP's fault for incorrectly designing the risk/reward system. Players understand the system, and they exploit the rules to their most efficient result. If it were more efficient to be in lowsec, including taking into account the risk of death, they would do it. But CCP has deemed this issue unimportant and has since ignored it.

So, TL,DR: why do we have the situation as it is today? It's CCP's fault for not designing the game correctly.


This is a problem because null has targets as well. But the pirates are not willing to go to null just like the carebears are not willing to go to low.

I see the pot calling the kettle black. So yes the pirates exploit the rules to their favor as well. By attacking in high sec instead of null. They are afraid of targets that can shoot back.

If most pirates do not like this mode of play then go into null and have your fun.
Oh wait that is not fun is it. It is only fun to shoot at targets that do not shoot back.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-08-07 07:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Lilianna Star wrote:
...


This was a surprisingly constructive post. Essentially you're saying that solo and small gang opportunities are few and people suicide gank and camp as consolation.
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#23 - 2012-08-07 07:16:31 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

This is a problem because null has targets as well. But the pirates are not willing to go to null just like the carebears are not willing to go to low.

I see the pot calling the kettle black. So yes the pirates exploit the rules to their favor as well. By attacking in high sec instead of null. They are afraid of targets that can shoot back.

If most pirates do not like this mode of play then go into null and have your fun.
Oh wait that is not fun is it. It is only fun to shoot at targets that do not shoot back.


Or maybe those who do live in nullsec are almost as overbearingly powerful as CONCORD except they don't wait for you to shoot first.

I never said this was a simple problem to fix.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#24 - 2012-08-07 07:20:19 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:

3) Hunters go where the prey are. Hence, the high sec ganking. It's not that pirates LIKE this mode of play. Most don't. But it's the only way for them to access targets.

4) The idea that the situation is the way that it is due to 'over fishing' of targets by pirates: not the case. It's CCP's fault for incorrectly designing the risk/reward system. Players understand the system, and they exploit the rules to their most efficient result. If it were more efficient to be in lowsec, including taking into account the risk of death, they would do it. But CCP has deemed this issue unimportant and has since ignored it.

So, TL,DR: why do we have the situation as it is today? It's CCP's fault for not designing the game correctly.


This is a problem because null has targets as well. But the pirates are not willing to go to null just like the carebears are not willing to go to low.

I see the pot calling the kettle black. So yes the pirates exploit the rules to their favor as well. By attacking in high sec instead of null. They are afraid of targets that can shoot back.

If most pirates do not like this mode of play then go into null and have your fun.
Oh wait that is not fun is it. It is only fun to shoot at targets that do not shoot back.



As a pirate, I live exclusively off of what I kill. As such, I try and maximize my profits while minimizing my losses. I'm not at war. I don't take territory for the sake of owning it. I don't fight for the sake of the fight. I fight just enough to do the job. No more, no less. Ammo is expensive.

So: null has a lousy selection of 'targets'. I can't make money off of killing a fleet of 0.0 blobbers. And I can't make money killing Jump Freighters (because they jump out, duh). And transports etc. are virtually non existent in null. If Jump Freighters didn't exist, there would be more opportunity to attack supply lines and such. But of course, CCP screwed that up. Hence, we're back to suicide ganking in high sec.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Cadfael Maelgwyn
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-08-07 07:22:35 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
So: null has a lousy selection of 'targets'. I can't make money off of killing a fleet of 0.0 blobbers. And I can't make money killing Jump Freighters (because they jump out, duh). And transports etc. are virtually non existent in null. If Jump Freighters didn't exist, there would be more opportunity to attack supply lines and such. But of course, CCP screwed that up. Hence, we're back to suicide ganking in high sec.

Agreed, if there was no way to have expensive cargo skip over hostile space like JFs can, piracy, mirroring real-world swashbuckling piracy, would be much more viable.

Bring back convoys!
Herr Hammer Draken
#26 - 2012-08-07 07:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:

3) Hunters go where the prey are. Hence, the high sec ganking. It's not that pirates LIKE this mode of play. Most don't. But it's the only way for them to access targets.

4) The idea that the situation is the way that it is due to 'over fishing' of targets by pirates: not the case. It's CCP's fault for incorrectly designing the risk/reward system. Players understand the system, and they exploit the rules to their most efficient result. If it were more efficient to be in lowsec, including taking into account the risk of death, they would do it. But CCP has deemed this issue unimportant and has since ignored it.

So, TL,DR: why do we have the situation as it is today? It's CCP's fault for not designing the game correctly.


This is a problem because null has targets as well. But the pirates are not willing to go to null just like the carebears are not willing to go to low.

I see the pot calling the kettle black. So yes the pirates exploit the rules to their favor as well. By attacking in high sec instead of null. They are afraid of targets that can shoot back.

If most pirates do not like this mode of play then go into null and have your fun.
Oh wait that is not fun is it. It is only fun to shoot at targets that do not shoot back.



As a pirate, I live exclusively off of what I kill. As such, I try and maximize my profits while minimizing my losses. I'm not at war. I don't take territory for the sake of owning it. I don't fight for the sake of the fight. I fight just enough to do the job. No more, no less. Ammo is expensive.

So: null has a lousy selection of 'targets'. I can't make money off of killing a fleet of 0.0 blobbers. And I can't make money killing Jump Freighters (because they jump out, duh). And transports etc. are virtually non existent in null. If Jump Freighters didn't exist, there would be more opportunity to attack supply lines and such. But of course, CCP screwed that up. Hence, we're back to suicide ganking in high sec.


There are miners in null as well.
And you do not lose your ship to concord in null so the whole profit thing works better as well.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#27 - 2012-08-07 07:22:43 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:


As a pirate, I live exclusively off of what I kill. As such, I try and maximize my profits while minimizing my losses. I'm not at war. I don't take territory for the sake of owning it. I don't fight for the sake of the fight. I fight just enough to do the job. No more, no less. Ammo is expensive.

So: null has a lousy selection of 'targets'. I can't make money off of killing a fleet of 0.0 blobbers. And I can't make money killing Jump Freighters (because they jump out, duh). And transports etc. are virtually non existent in null. If Jump Freighters didn't exist, there would be more opportunity to attack supply lines and such. But of course, CCP screwed that up. Hence, we're back to suicide ganking in high sec.


Random question, not a pirate. But does warp scrambling prevent jumping? Straight
Pipa Porto
#28 - 2012-08-07 07:23:24 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
DevBlog wrote:
The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank, or NPCs, by giving a large enough buffer to react to incoming attacks, while paying for that with a lower mining yield.



Ummmm....


Yea, that's what it is NOW, but there was an older statement claiming that the "small" barges where geared towards deep space mining... I'll try to dig it up.


Well, there are the TQ Exhumer descriptions, which all mention their role as Deep Space mining vessels.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#29 - 2012-08-07 07:25:11 UTC
Lilianna Star wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:


As a pirate, I live exclusively off of what I kill. As such, I try and maximize my profits while minimizing my losses. I'm not at war. I don't take territory for the sake of owning it. I don't fight for the sake of the fight. I fight just enough to do the job. No more, no less. Ammo is expensive.

So: null has a lousy selection of 'targets'. I can't make money off of killing a fleet of 0.0 blobbers. And I can't make money killing Jump Freighters (because they jump out, duh). And transports etc. are virtually non existent in null. If Jump Freighters didn't exist, there would be more opportunity to attack supply lines and such. But of course, CCP screwed that up. Hence, we're back to suicide ganking in high sec.


Random question, not a pirate. But does warp scrambling prevent jumping? Straight


Yes it does. But then, no smart JF pilot's ever outside docking range outside of HS unless they're landing on a LS>HS gate. Luckily, there are plenty of stupid JF pilots.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-08-07 07:28:30 UTC
Terrible Damage wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lilianna Star wrote:
At first, this complaint confused me. Why are you trying to make a business out of ganking in high sec? Why do you think this is a good thing? Why do you care if other people are playing differently than you?


My take on the "I got ganked, I'm quitting" attitude.

At first, this complaint confused me. Why are you thinking that you're safe in high sec? Why do you think a safe place in EVE is a good thing? Why do you care if other people are playing differently than you?


Ganking's just a different style of play. No better or worse than mining. Gankers aren't trying to ban mining (or who would they gank?), or make it impossible to profit from, but miners sure are trying to get ganking banned.


oh darkfall, how i long for thee (to be without ****** grind)


they actually reduced the grind by a ridiculous amount due to all the crying from weaklings who wanted to be mr. badass but weren't willing to put forth the effort. I ended up quitting b/c I of all the welfare and stupid changes they did due to the "community" of vocal forum whiners who wanted everyting easier, faster, NOW NOW NOW. instant cast rays was also a really stupid idea too imo, took skill out of the game by having that easy to use, no-flight time instant crap.
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-08-07 07:28:59 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
There are miners in null as well.

Who will always run like cockroaches when the lights get turned on if someone comes in local.

See here.
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#32 - 2012-08-07 07:29:17 UTC
Well, to be honest I always thought jump freighters was a hokey idea to add.

But on the other hand, they are in already and removing them where many alliances have built an infrastructure around Jump Freighters could cause a sticky situation.
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#33 - 2012-08-07 07:31:55 UTC
Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
There are miners in null as well.

Who will always run like cockroaches when the lights get turned on if someone comes in local.

See here.

And on the topic of odd design choices, local being a detection mechanic is stupid.

Remove local and replace it with region chat.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#34 - 2012-08-07 07:32:47 UTC
Quittin Eve is hard than you think, I normally end up adding another account to my pool and dream of all the wonderful things I could do with all the characters. Well in the end I switch skills only and read EGD.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Pipa Porto
#35 - 2012-08-07 07:32:48 UTC
Lilianna Star wrote:
Well, to be honest I always thought jump freighters was a hokey idea to add.

But on the other hand, they are in already and removing them where many alliances have built an infrastructure around Jump Freighters could cause a sticky situation.


Nobody enjoys Freighter Convoys. And the big alliance will just have POSes with bridge Titans. No real change in safety, just an increase in capital investment.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#36 - 2012-08-07 07:35:13 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lilianna Star wrote:
Well, to be honest I always thought jump freighters was a hokey idea to add.

But on the other hand, they are in already and removing them where many alliances have built an infrastructure around Jump Freighters could cause a sticky situation.


Nobody enjoys Freighter Convoys. And the big alliance will just have POSes with bridge Titans. No real change in safety, just an increase in capital investment.

Yeah, I thought about that already.
Herr Hammer Draken
#37 - 2012-08-07 07:36:11 UTC
Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
There are miners in null as well.

Who will always run like cockroaches when the lights get turned on if someone comes in local.

See here.



And now you know what will happen if high sec becomes like null like so many people want to happen.
As soon as somebody shows up everybody runs and camps. EVE will become a game of campers.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#38 - 2012-08-07 07:44:51 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lilianna Star wrote:
Well, to be honest I always thought jump freighters was a hokey idea to add.

But on the other hand, they are in already and removing them where many alliances have built an infrastructure around Jump Freighters could cause a sticky situation.


Nobody enjoys Freighter Convoys. And the big alliance will just have POSes with bridge Titans. No real change in safety, just an increase in capital investment.


Sorry to chime in here, but I'm curious: Why would nobody enjoy this?
I find the scenario so interesting. Important cargo to transport, a few, or even dozens, of freighters, escorted by combat ships, scout sent out to adjacent systems. Isn't that a great example of how a group of people with various skillsets can work together?

This is a serious question, since I probably overlook something.
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-08-07 07:46:13 UTC
Serena Serene wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lilianna Star wrote:
Well, to be honest I always thought jump freighters was a hokey idea to add.

But on the other hand, they are in already and removing them where many alliances have built an infrastructure around Jump Freighters could cause a sticky situation.


Nobody enjoys Freighter Convoys. And the big alliance will just have POSes with bridge Titans. No real change in safety, just an increase in capital investment.


Sorry to chime in here, but I'm curious: Why would nobody enjoy this?
I find the scenario so interesting. Important cargo to transport, a few, or even dozens, of freighters, escorted by combat ships, scout sent out to adjacent systems. Isn't that a great example of how a group of people with various skillsets can work together?

This is a serious question, since I probably overlook something.

Well, I enjoyed the one and only freighter convoy I was in.

Then again, I was a week old newb in a Caracal taking my first trip ever into nullsec.

I was thoroughly overexcited about everything.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2012-08-07 07:50:00 UTC
Serena Serene wrote:
Sorry to chime in here, but I'm curious: Why would nobody enjoy this?
I find the scenario so interesting. Important cargo to transport, a few, or even dozens, of freighters, escorted by combat ships, scout sent out to adjacent systems. Isn't that a great example of how a group of people with various skillsets can work together?

This is a serious question, since I probably overlook something.

Well unless you're Major Alliance, Major Alliance will drop titans on you and kaboom everything will blow up.

Which I'm sure Major Alliance's supercap pilots don't mind. Heck you might not even have to have a couple fleets dropped on you if just the supercaps and maybe some T3s will do.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?