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Two more accounts unsubbed.

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Lexmana
#441 - 2012-08-08 14:47:42 UTC
Rented wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Rented wrote:

Reading sentences comprised of words to extract the ideas and expressions contained within appears beyond you. I'd recommend you forget everything I've said, except you apparently already have.

You essentially claimed that resources are unlimited in EVE and that resource and market PvP is meaningless. Well, that pretty much disqualifies the majority of what EVE has to offer. That is why I asked why you play EVE. Maybe you don't know?


A proper response usually comes afterwards, but I suppose if it's provided in advance that's okay too.

I see you're just trolling. Or maybe you don't have a clue. I can't tell. Anyway. Good luck with your game or your trolling.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#442 - 2012-08-08 14:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Tippia wrote:
Link?


CBA to dig GD just for a question, I'll just consider it as a default reply.


Tippia wrote:

The funny thing is, my theory of what happened is fully in line with yours, but for some reason, you absolutely must believe that I'm only blaming Incarna, or that I'm only blaming PvE, when I said something quite different from the very start. This is why I'm calling you prejudiced: because you get so angry over what you think I'm saying that you fail to notice that we're largely in agreement.


It's because of how you present it. Let's make a simple example:

Tippia wrote:

Weell… it's not really my fault if I have to ask repeatedly for people to produce facts to prop up their fantasies, and if they continuously fail to do so. Blink



Tippia wrote:
Biomass MeNOW wrote:
Those games have zero industry, zero manufacturing, no grinding PvE content to buy the next gee-gaw. They're about PvP, solely and nothing else.

Eve is about every thing else, and PvP.
…except that the “everything else” is also PvP in EVE, and that all of it is rather dependent on combat to have any meaning or purpose. Eve is about PvP through and through, and offers it in a huge variety of forms to appeal to almost any kind of mindset (except the “leave me alone and let me grind” one).



Your texts transpire non veiled superiority attitude, like you have to graciously concede your wisdom on the lessers.
The guy you quoted is not an idiot he KNOWS that everything in EvE is PvP but (once again, another past thread you did not really reply but with an elusive answer) like everybody else.
Yet he also knows that by this meter, every MMO is PvP in those aspects, since in every MMO you directly compete for mineral spawns, best NPCs spawns, at selling on their markets against others and so on.
You also clumped his reply in "you confuse that with PvE" while he listed zero industry, zero manufacturing (detached from saying it's PvE) and THEN "no grinding PvE content".


This kind of nitpicking and going beyond what the other guy says is your specialty.

I wanted to give you a taste about your own approach you use on the other posters. You clearly don't like it, so please stop doing the same with the others who don't even have your rethorical tools nor whole evenings to argue and counter-argue on conjunctions and similia.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#443 - 2012-08-08 15:31:30 UTC
I'll try and break it down for you.

Lexmana wrote:

You essentially claimed that resources are unlimited in EVE and that resource and market PvP is meaningless. Well, that pretty much disqualifies the majority of what EVE has to offer. That is why I asked why you play EVE. Maybe you don't know?


This is a closed question, there is no response because its pretenses have already determined the answer (which is immediately proven false). Not to mention none of them are actually based on anything I've previously stated.

Assumption: Rented believes resource and market PVP is meaningless.
Assumption: The majority of EVE is resource and market PVP.
Therefore: Rented believes EVE is meaningless.
Assumption: If you believe something is meaningless, you wouldn't play it.
Therefore: Rented wouldn't play EVE.


But indeed I am playing EVE, which would lead you to perhaps realize the method by which you've drawn your conclusion (which is proven to be false) is fundamentally wrong.

And yes, when you start spouting [sarcasm]sherlock-quality[/sarcasm] gems like this I absolutely start trolling (especially when you provide the proper answer of 'yeah, that dun make sense bro', in advance, for my convenience, without realizing it).
It did however, provide me with the mild thrill of being able to respond somewhat recursively though.
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#444 - 2012-08-08 15:34:10 UTC
I think its fair to say that anyone who enters low sec and beyond 'wants' to fight.

They may not want to fight in that ship at that time... but generally speaking, people know that low-sec and beyond is for pvp.

So technically, 'non-consentual' pvp doesnt really exist, its just a perception.
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#445 - 2012-08-08 15:48:18 UTC
I agree. He makes valid points. Sucks to see someone who likes PvP going. You do not have to look any further than the current faction warfare farming system to see many of his points Sad Remove local.
Ezra Tair
Doomheim
#446 - 2012-08-08 15:53:11 UTC
It is likely no one will read this but:

You qualify your post with how long you have had accounts subbed to this game, and post on a two year old character.

Your upset that there is not non-consensual PvP 99% of the time. But poses, local, cloaks, ect have been in game for some time. All of which do not advocate non-consensual PvP, yet now is the time you complain about it.

I don't think you care as much about PvP as the ability to take advantage of others lack of knowledge about the game as well as maintaining immersion breaking inconsistencies in game play.

No you can't profitably gank ships in hi-sec as often. Yes you can still gank ships in hi sec.

No, soon you probably won't be able to sit an alt off-grid and boost your 'solo ship' . Yes you can still dual box and 'solo pvp'

No, soon you probably won't be able to sit at a gate with GCC and expect to 'lawlz tank' guns, and catch frigates jumping though from hisec.

Most the things changed were immersion breaking. Because a sandbox without realistic repercussions is immersion breaking.
Cedar Locus
Fleet 2 die
#447 - 2012-08-08 16:13:06 UTC
they make it easier so they think they get more players, instead of fixing their crap game
Dan Carter Murray
#448 - 2012-08-08 16:37:21 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
I read a post earlier about some 3 year player binning his character because he was suicide ganked and then lost his Golem (LOL) to Concord because he "shot a Noctis" (i.e. he was an idiot and made a huge mistake).

I'm an 8 year+ player (I've lost count to be frank) and I've had at least two accounts subbed at a minimum for the entire 8+ years. This month will be the first time in 8 years that I have no characters in training.

Why? CCP has continued and will continue to make Eve less lethal. CCP continually makes Eve a safer place, easier to survive, with fewer opportunities to die horribly as a result of your mistakes. Essentially, they've dumbed down the game, and continue to do so.

When I was a new player, Eve was incredibly lethal. Jump into a .4, get your face blown off. Rinse, repeat. Your life span was usually dictated by how long you could hold your cloak at a gate. This part of the game was what kept me coming back for more. Extreme risk, extreme danger, extreme loss if you make a mistake.

Eve PVP is now garbage. It's not that the balance is that bad, or the mechanics are terrible. That part of the game is just fine. It's the inability to have non-concentual PVP. 99% of the time, if you get a fight it's because either A) the other side wanted to fight, or B) the other side made such a huge mistake that they ignored all signs of danger for 10+ minutes while you 'snuck up on them' in broad daylight, broadcasting your presence in local. Anyway, I digress.

With every change, CCP has removed risk, weighted the balance towards the defender and generally pampered those players who otherwise would have been murdered like sleeping baby seals.

Maybe one day the game will turn the corner and CCP will start making it more lethal again. I seriously doubt it, but it might happen. Until then, it's looking less and less likely that I'll find it worthwhile to log back in. It's sad really. CCP has finally managed to pummel my fanatical enthusiasm for the game into mush. I've been transformed from Eve evangelist to apathetic apologist. And the worst part is, all the other aspects of Eve have never been better: graphics, new ship models, missile trails, interface updates, market improvements, industry, invention, etc. etc. etc.

But that's not what Eve is about. Eve is about PVP. And until CCP fixes that, it's not worth subbing. Such a waste.


***EDIT***

Some addendum:

This post isn't about gate guns, or high sec or low sec or whatever. The players focusing on issues such as these are behaving like a person running at speed and looking straight down at their toes. The focus should be at the horizon, not at the base of your feet. Think bigger. Think more fundamentally about how the game is constructed and how it's (so poorly) organized for PVP and how fundamental changes in gameplay can radically improve the game over the long run. CCP keeps placating you with tiny improvements and distracting you with changes designed to generate controversy and discord.

So no, this isn't a "Goons ruined Eve" thread. It's not a whine thread. I'm just voting with my wallet. The only thing CCP understands.


Let me know how MoP is.

Also, join FW if you want pvp.

Contrary to popular belief, most FW pvp occurs in plexes.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#449 - 2012-08-09 01:10:20 UTC
The Snowman wrote:
I think its fair to say that anyone who enters low sec and beyond 'wants' to fight.

They may not want to fight in that ship at that time... but generally speaking, people know that low-sec and beyond is for pvp.

So technically, 'non-consentual' pvp doesnt really exist, its just a perception.


Wrong. Plenty of people venture into lowsec for trading and other non-shooting reasons.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#450 - 2012-08-09 01:17:13 UTC
Ezra Tair wrote:
It is likely no one will read this but:

You qualify your post with how long you have had accounts subbed to this game, and post on a two year old character.

Your upset that there is not non-consensual PvP 99% of the time. But poses, local, cloaks, ect have been in game for some time. All of which do not advocate non-consensual PvP, yet now is the time you complain about it.

I don't think you care as much about PvP as the ability to take advantage of others lack of knowledge about the game as well as maintaining immersion breaking inconsistencies in game play.

No you can't profitably gank ships in hi-sec as often. Yes you can still gank ships in hi sec.

No, soon you probably won't be able to sit an alt off-grid and boost your 'solo ship' . Yes you can still dual box and 'solo pvp'

No, soon you probably won't be able to sit at a gate with GCC and expect to 'lawlz tank' guns, and catch frigates jumping though from hisec.

Most the things changed were immersion breaking. Because a sandbox without realistic repercussions is immersion breaking.


1) It's the account I have currently. I've had other accounts for longer. I sold them and started from scratch, just for the challenge.

2) I've disliked the fact that PVP has been pushed toward consensual PVP for some time now. The fact that I'm quitting now has no bearing on how long it has been in an unacceptable state.

3) Most PVP in Eve is about having a better understanding of the game than someone else. At this point, you're just trolling.

4) Again with the needless point about suicide ganking. I'm not talking about suicide ganking. You're just creating a straw man argument to dilute the focus. Trolling.

5) See number 4. I actually want on grid command ships. Trolling.

6) Trolling. If you read anything you would see that I don't specifically care about gate gun changes.

7) No, none of the changes fixed any broken immersion for me.

So, in summation: No. You don't understand me, you don't understand this thread, and you're using the opportunity to further your agenda and viewpoints while completely ignoring the real focus of the discussion.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Doc Severide
Doomheim
#451 - 2012-08-09 01:45:58 UTC
8 years and you think this is just a PVP game? Nothing else to do full time like many others who spend their entire time station trading?

Geez, good riddance...
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#452 - 2012-08-09 01:47:59 UTC
Ezra Tair wrote:
It is likely no one will read this but:

You qualify your post with how long you have had accounts subbed to this game, and post on a two year old character.

Your upset that there is not non-consensual PvP 99% of the time. But poses, local, cloaks, ect have been in game for some time. All of which do not advocate non-consensual PvP, yet now is the time you complain about it.

I don't think you care as much about PvP as the ability to take advantage of others lack of knowledge about the game as well as maintaining immersion breaking inconsistencies in game play.

No you can't profitably gank ships in hi-sec as often. Yes you can still gank ships in hi sec.

No, soon you probably won't be able to sit an alt off-grid and boost your 'solo ship' . Yes you can still dual box and 'solo pvp'

No, soon you probably won't be able to sit at a gate with GCC and expect to 'lawlz tank' guns, and catch frigates jumping though from hisec.

Most the things changed were immersion breaking. Because a sandbox without realistic repercussions is immersion breaking.

Right on.

OP is just another whiner who thinks HIS way of playing is the ONLY way of playing...
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#453 - 2012-08-09 01:51:09 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
8 years and you think this is just a PVP game? Nothing else to do full time like many others who spend their entire time station trading?

Geez, good riddance...


Trading is PVP. Just because no one gets shot doesn't make it any less PVP. Geez, you'r obtuse.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#454 - 2012-08-09 01:53:30 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Your texts transpire non veiled superiority attitude, like you have to graciously concede your wisdom on the lessers.

You only think Tippia comes off that way because you are an elitist yourself

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Ohanka
#455 - 2012-08-09 02:11:15 UTC
Goodbye, you won't be missed.

North Korea is Best Korea
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#456 - 2012-08-09 04:10:01 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Your texts transpire non veiled superiority attitude, like you have to graciously concede your wisdom on the lessers.

You only think Tippia comes off that way because you are an elitist yourself


Why I am not: because I am not going to school you about how you are wrong nor to log on alts to add likes to this post nor I will try changing your opinion.

Feel free to think whatever you like!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#457 - 2012-08-09 05:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Why I am not: because I am not going to school you about how you are wrong nor to log on alts to add likes to this post nor I will try changing your opinion.
So you're about as elitist as me, in other words.

Quote:
CBA to dig GD just for a question
Then don't complain about it.

Quote:
The guy you quoted is not an idiot he KNOWS that everything in EvE is PvP but (once again, another past thread you did not really reply but with an elusive answer) like everybody else.
Yet he also knows that by this meter, every MMO is PvP in those aspects, since in every MMO you directly compete for mineral spawns, best NPCs spawns, at selling on their markets against others and so on.
Yeah see, I no longer presume that people will not be idiots about that particular aspect when they say those things because history has shown that soooooo many of them are. I also make sure to note the distinction between EVE and those other games that offer similar competitive elements: in those games, there are also elements (or hell, entire servers) that are not competitive, and which are often the main draw of the game — something that does exist in EVE. If you feel like that makes me a broken record, then that's your headache, but as long as people come along with these nonsensical and uniformed claims, I'm going to set the straight. There is no reason to let them infect more people with their ignorance.

Quote:
I wanted to give you a taste about your own approach you use on the other posters.
Really? Where?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#458 - 2012-08-09 05:55:16 UTC
Rented wrote:
'Competing' for a rock of veldspar is just as meaningfully interactive as .01 isk-ing a market order.
It's still PvP, no matter how much you wish to devalue the interaction.

Quote:
I've got bad news, resources aren't limited.
So, if I completely mine a rock, it is still available for you to mine? I think you might want to log in and test your theory… or hell, I'll just spoil it for you: no, it won't be. If I get something, it is not available to you. You have to go find whatever it is you wanted elsewhere. The resources are limited and while it is currently enough to go around if people just chose to spread out a bit, the simple fact remains that people go out every day and come back empty-handed because others have beaten them to the resources they were after.

Yes, the competition restarts on average every day (depending on the resource), but that doesn't mean it's not a competition. By your logic, the Olympic Games are not competitive — you can always come back in four years, right?
Max G Force
Doomheim
#459 - 2012-08-09 05:58:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It's still PvP, no matter how much you wish to devalue the interaction.




Actually it's the term 'PvP' that's been watered down over the years to the point that the term is fairly meaningless.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#460 - 2012-08-09 06:07:24 UTC
they nerf the tank on thwe hulk... yeah totally less lethal lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.