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Anslo
Scope Works
#241 - 2012-08-07 16:19:52 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Anslo wrote:
More people and news about WoW than EVE isn't there? When it comes down to it, it's all about the bottom line, and PvPers of today are bad for business.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7905924.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/07/arts/07eve.html?pagewanted=all
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8132547.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8545268.stm

feel free to let me know when some raiders in WoW make the news


So to bolster your argument you pull some news articles from 2-5+ years ago? That's....pathetically funny. And where are the masses commenting on these articles? Where was the ROI on these news articles? Hm? Non-existent compared to larger and more successful games.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#242 - 2012-08-07 16:20:44 UTC
i hope CCP listens to you

no, honestly, I do

it'll be fun to watch them go under as they try to hold on to DUST for dear life until another CoD clone is released and everyone moves on and stops buying stuff from the cash shop

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Anslo
Scope Works
#243 - 2012-08-07 16:20:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
Anslo curb stomping whiney derps with logic left and right. +1
Too bad that it's all fallacious and based on pure guesswork.


It's based on observation of the obvious in the gaming/business world. Unless you prove otherwise, you should probably go back to mashing F1 and laughing at the rookie ship on the other end of your weapons.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#244 - 2012-08-07 16:21:25 UTC
Anslo wrote:
So to bolster your argument you pull some news articles from 2-5+ years ago? That's....pathetically funny. And where are the masses commenting on these articles? Where was the ROI on these news articles? Hm? Non-existent compared to larger and more successful games.


yeah feel free to pull up all those articles about how those 5 dudes conquered that raid in WoW

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#245 - 2012-08-07 16:22:49 UTC
Anslo were you one of those people who defended NGE as SOE finally "getting it"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Anslo
Scope Works
#246 - 2012-08-07 16:23:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Richard Desturned wrote:
Denidil wrote:
i'd like to see that be 700k, or 800k or more. that means CCP could hire more staff and speed of iteration would increase. if that means reducing (but not making suiciding) impossible then I'm fine with that. if that means making resource gathering more exciting i'm ok with that (also because that probably means the ships we pew pew with will cost less because new players entering the resource gathering professions).

and if it means making gooniebabies cry.. then i'm DEFINITELY ok with it


because eve would be such a ~great~ game on its own merits

"come play EVE Online, a game with endless undocumented mechanics, boring missions and AWESOME MINING today"


Your business and marketing/PR skills are horrible. The bitter vet in you blinds your logic. Stop posting.

Richard Desturned wrote:
i hope CCP listens to you

no, honestly, I do

it'll be fun to watch them go under as they try to hold on to DUST for dear life until another CoD clone is released and everyone moves on and stops buying stuff from the cash shop


If they catered to the masses and stopped pandering to you *snip* they would probably be a much larger, more thriving, and more profitable company belting out a LOT of content, both PvP and PvE. They wouldn't have needed to fire anyone for the debacle earlier on with spreading to thin between Dust, WoD and letting EVE suffer.

EDIT: Personal attack removed. Please post responsibly - ISD Type40.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Anslo
Scope Works
#247 - 2012-08-07 16:24:51 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Anslo wrote:
So to bolster your argument you pull some news articles from 2-5+ years ago? That's....pathetically funny. And where are the masses commenting on these articles? Where was the ROI on these news articles? Hm? Non-existent compared to larger and more successful games.


yeah feel free to pull up all those articles about how those 5 dudes conquered that raid in WoW


Who cares? People don't play a game to make news. We play it for FUN and not to deal with game trolling neanderthals.

Richard Desturned wrote:
Anslo were you one of those people who defended NGE as SOE finally "getting it"


I don't even know what that's a reference to. I don't follow this game so closely to know every aspect news and nuance. I play for fun, not for life.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#248 - 2012-08-07 16:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Anslo wrote:
It's based on observation of the obvious in the gaming/business world.
…but not on facts, which is pretty strange, since some of the facts are very well known and easy to come by.

The simple fact remains: PvP is what has kept this game alive for a decade; what has kept it in media focus for just as long; what has kept it from stagnating like all those themepark games; what has kept it in one of the top spots for pay-for western MMO populations.

Your falsified numbers and unfounded assumptions don't change any of that.

By the way, if you had observed the gaming world, you would know of this old lesson: you cannot change your replace your customer base and expect to live. Suggesting that they should is pretty bad advice.

Quote:
If they catered to the masses
…they would not have survived past, oh, 2005 or so.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#249 - 2012-08-07 16:26:26 UTC
can we give the "WoW vs EvE" **** a break? they're two entirely different games top to bottom, are not comparable. EvE will never have 12 million subscribers (nor does WoW anymore :P) nor should it.

But complaining that changes make (or people want) EvE more like WoW (or "hello kitty online") are ********, just as are complaints that someones 8bn isk shiny (loot pinata :P) raven navy issue got suicided.

Were the miners pretty whiny about hulkageddon: absolutely... but they were also right, which is why I argued on their side when it came to the EHP increase on ships. they were too ******* easy to suicide - it shouldn't be profitable to suicide based on just the manufacturing value of the ship. That clearly goes against the intended design of allowing suiciding.

However at the same time the gankbears (yes.. you're little better than carebears. seriously shoot something that shoots back) are little better - claiming that they made it impossible (false) to suicide them. nope it just takes 3 or 4 tornadoes to suicide a DCII+2x invul mackinaw. three catalysts should still be able to take out a 2xMLU hulk in .5

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Hammer Borne
Doomheim
#250 - 2012-08-07 16:27:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
It's based on observation of the obvious in the gaming/business world.
…but not on facts, which is pretty strange, since some of the facts are very well known and easy to come by.

The simple fact remains: PvP is what has kept this game alive for a decade; what has kept it in media focus for just as long; what has kept it from stagnating like all those themepark games; what has kept it in one of the top spots for pay-for western MMO populations.

Your falsified numbers and unfounded assumptions don't change any of that.


His points about the crap community are, however, crystal clear. I happen to agree with all of them. Bad communities ruin games and this one has reached an all time low.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#251 - 2012-08-07 16:27:58 UTC
CCP just need to remove gate guns from All gates EXCEPT the ones that border on high-sec.

Once you are in low-sec there is plenty of other restrictions to keep things in check.

I don't have a problem with gate guns being nasty on the border gate, after that welcome to low-sec.


EVERYBODY KNOWS
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#252 - 2012-08-07 16:28:03 UTC
Denidil wrote:
seriously shoot something that shoots back


done

next?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#253 - 2012-08-07 16:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hammer Borne wrote:
His points about the crap community are, however, crystal clear. I happen to agree with all of them. Bad communities ruin games and this one has reached an all time low.
Good thing, then, that EVE has won multiple “best community” awards. Blink

But you're right. It has taken a bit of a downturn with all these “waah, I should be safe in highsec” whines that have popped up recently. Makes you wonder what failed themepark game all those lost souls are pouring in from. Since there are so many of them, it's kind of hard to tell these days.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#254 - 2012-08-07 16:31:48 UTC
Anslo wrote:
...



Richard and Tippia do have a point that this IS primarily a PvP game.. hell i don't pvp in any other MMO but I play eve to PVP. all my PvE activities are just for the purpose of funding my PvP.

anyway.. as i was saying - they have a point in that this is a PvP game. it will always be PvP centric. I'm for making the PvE more entertaining/harder/more cooperative to bring in players in - the "farms and fields" design initiatives. I supported the EHP buffing of the barges because of the cost vs reward ratio on suiciding barges was entirely out of whack.

However i think blaming PvPers in general for problems with the game is just wrong - as it is a pvp game. Gankbears are a problem, not all PvPers are gankbears.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Lexmana
#255 - 2012-08-07 16:32:18 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Wrong. If this game catered to the masses, it would last long. WoW lasted long. Guild Wars lasts long.

Can you give an estimate of how many games that catered to the masses that didn't last long or are you just picking the top .1% of all games to prove your thesis while ignoring the other 99.9%?

The fact is: EVE is one of the most successful MMOs ever because it is a niche game with a loyal fanbase.
Anslo
Scope Works
#256 - 2012-08-07 16:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Tippia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
It's based on observation of the obvious in the gaming/business world.
…but not on facts, which is pretty strange, since some of the facts are very well known and easy to come by.

The simple fact remains: PvP is what has kept this game alive for a decade; what has kept it in media focus for just as long; what has kept it from stagnating like all those themepark games; what has kept it in one of the top spots for pay-for western MMO populations.

Your falsified numbers and unfounded assumptions don't change any of that.

By the way, if you had observed the gaming world, you would know of this old lesson: you cannot change your replace your customer base and expect to live. Suggesting that they should is pretty bad advice.


Prove PvP has directly kept this game alive as opposed to altering the focus of the game to cater to masses who play games to relax. Playing a game to relax is fundamentally the purpose of a game, the original intent of its creation. More fun, more people. Simple.

What media coverage? Aside from some old articles, what media coverage? Anything recent outside of a few side bars from magazine's covering gaming expos and a few articles on 10k Hammer? Please...

It already has stagnated. The population has been homogeneous for years and the game in terms of population, angst and trolling simply hasn't changed. The community sucks, and this in turn affects gameplay and keeps new people from wanting to play. Would you just wanna see HTFU all the time when you start playing? No. You'd leave. But we as EVE players would love to see EVE increase grow and thrive.

This game is kept at a "top spot" because there isn't that many, IF any, sci-fi MMO's as robust as it is right now, let alone a lot of Western MMO's period. The game is good, the story is good, the potential is there. But some mechanics and parts of the community are undesirables that should be leashed.

If you want me to start using accurate numbers *snip* I'd be happy to.

Also, when did I say change their customer base? I said tweak some mechanics to attract MORE to the base. You act like PvPers are the only people who pay for this game. They're not.


EDIT: Personal attacks are not warranted nor needed for a good conversation. Please post responsibly in future.


Personal attacks removed - ISD Type40.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#257 - 2012-08-07 16:34:38 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
CCP just need to remove gate guns from All gates EXCEPT the ones that border on high-sec.

Once you are in low-sec there is plenty of other restrictions to keep things in check.

I don't have a problem with gate guns being nasty on the border gate, after that welcome to low-sec.




i always thought gate guns in lowsec were sorta dumb. i suppose it deters instalocking tackle frigates, but there has to be a better way of doing that.


Richard Desturned wrote:
Denidil wrote:
seriously shoot something that shoots back


done

next?


good boy, next you'll be putting your own pants on and you won't be whining!

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Anslo
Scope Works
#258 - 2012-08-07 16:35:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hammer Borne wrote:
His points about the crap community are, however, crystal clear. I happen to agree with all of them. Bad communities ruin games and this one has reached an all time low.
Good thing, then, that EVE has won multiple “best community” awards. Blink

But you're right. It has taken a bit of a downturn with all these “waah, I should be safe in highsec” whines that have popped up recently. Makes you wonder what failed themepark game all those lost souls are pouring in from. Since there are so many of them, it's kind of hard to tell these days.


Best Community back in early 2000. The EVE community is the joke of the gaming world now.

Richard Desturned wrote:
Anslo wrote:
If they catered to the masses and stopped pandering to you asshats they would probably be a much larger, more thriving, and more profitable company belting out a LOT of content, both PvP and PvE. They wouldn't have needed to fire anyone for the debacle earlier on with spreading to thin between Dust, WoD and letting EVE suffer.


Hi us "asshats" had nothing to do with CCP's mistakes in trying to extend their reach


No you just chase away new blood and, in turn, new infusions of money. You are undesirables and should be treated as thus.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Lexmana
#259 - 2012-08-07 16:37:53 UTC
Anslo wrote:
[quote=Tippia]
Prove PvP has directly kept this game alive as opposed to altering the focus of the game to cater to masses who play games to relax. Playing a game to relax is fundamentally the purpose of a game, the original intent of its creation. More fun, more people. Simple.

Don't you think there have been better ways to relax for the last decade than spreadsheets in space? Are you really arguing that EVE players are so inept they couldn't do better if all they wanted to do was relax?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#260 - 2012-08-07 16:38:16 UTC
Anslo wrote:
No you just chase away new blood and, in turn, new infusions of money. You are undesirables and should be treated as thus.


no, not really

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration