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CCP you lost allready much of faith and trust in you
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Andre Jean Sarpantis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-08-06 21:10:15 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
OP :: do you have the before and after numbers? I'm on SiSi now and seems like my Mack yesterday had 10K more EHP, but I did not write it down as I thought yesterday's tankage was the final rev.

Real numbers please ? (If you have them.)

If what you say is true, then I wasted my money, because I bought 3 Macks expecting to get the tank that was on SiSi yesterday... Stupid me for not waiting until the changes made it onto TQ ... or for trusting CCP I suppose.



I didn't wrote them down myselfs too, but yes, Mackinaw got another nerf with todays patch.

Sincerly

Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nephew from the Serpentis founder )
Lexmana
#22 - 2012-08-06 21:10:22 UTC
Worst troll ever. Miners will have the option to go for battleship EHP. But knowing your kind very few will probably take that option Most will still go for the Hulk, mine AFK and whine on the forums. You're better at whining than mining imo.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2012-08-06 21:13:43 UTC
Denidil wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
feel free to show the class that killmail of a hulk by a "lolnoobship"


as much as he is going over the top.. he does have a point. CCP promised to make them so they couldn't get ganked by a dessy or two.. and the first set of changes did that. then they nerfed the tanks back down into shite.

except for skiff/proc


Working as intended. Want the best tank? get a skiff.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-08-06 21:19:07 UTC
This is what the 3de thats try to QQ about this... Please stop the spamming......
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-08-06 21:24:53 UTC
sucks that ccp is protecting the d-bags who prefer zero risk "pvp", like miner ganking, just because they cried harder.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-08-06 21:27:03 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
sucks that ccp decided not to protect the d-bags who prefer zero risk "gameplay", like mining, just because they cried.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-08-06 21:29:47 UTC
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:
So as like the title says, alot of Faith and trust allredy got lost for you CCP, by the miners big time.

CCP devs brougth up promises there wont no longer be a possibility a Miningship could get blown up by sneezing bywanderers, brougth the first changes to test out on Sisi and the Big Waaahh waaahhh Whining started coming from Gankers they couldn't longer gank a Mining ship with a LOLnoobship worth 2 - 3 Millions, and they needed to adapt and bring up more firepower and so on and fort.....

So what did you do CCP, again you listened to the most vocal loudest screaming whinning folks especially the biggest whiner Herr Wilkus and his friends and nerfed down more and more the changes to a level as they are now.

ANd there we are......the changes you promised where come, and after todays finalized patch on Sisi, the Changes ( Defensibility wise ) are drained down the Watercloset and on a level the changes are not longer changes in Favor for the allready hardly hitted Miners its technically a nerf.

I'm applauding to you CCP slapping again the weakest rigth in their faces and let the easy ganking continue.

Allready some friends of mine which are Miners told me they are in verge after this change comes up they're going to unsub, so CCP expect another huge loss about Subscriptions incoming.

Sincerly

Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nephew from the Serpentis founder )

maybe this is why he is mad? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13659859

The LULZ Boat.
Lexmana
#28 - 2012-08-06 21:32:01 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
sucks that ccp is protecting the d-bags who prefer zero risk "pvp", like miner ganking, just because they cried harder.

No one cries harder than a miner. Like you. It is the truth.
Andre Jean Sarpantis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-08-06 21:37:13 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
sucks that ccp decided not to protect the d-bags who prefer zero risk "gameplay", like mining, just because they cried.


Well Richard, to let me make it clear, the Miner Asked since years and days for a overhaul from the Mining barges which was allready overdue to the plain fact, Other ships ( Combat ships especially Destroyers ) got rebalanced allready in a way so they are more effective also weapons as well, but Mining ships and other industrials are stagnant since years.

So CCP brougth finally the changes, but after the big Whinning occoured on the Forums by the Gankers they quickly turned around and mostly weakened their first changes to the current level as i allready said, a level which is regarding to Hulk and Mack just laughable and more a nerf then a buff.

Anyways, i'm outta here and let you brickheads continue your flaming.

Sincerly

Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nephew from the Serpentis founder )
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#30 - 2012-08-06 21:39:44 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
OP :: do you have the before and after numbers? I'm on SiSi now and seems like my Mack yesterday had 10K more EHP


it did.. my 2xInvul + Basic EM Ward + DC II fit dropped 13k EHP.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-08-06 21:40:09 UTC
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
OP :: do you have the before and after numbers? I'm on SiSi now and seems like my Mack yesterday had 10K more EHP, but I did not write it down as I thought yesterday's tankage was the final rev.

Real numbers please ? (If you have them.)

If what you say is true, then I wasted my money, because I bought 3 Macks expecting to get the tank that was on SiSi yesterday... Stupid me for not waiting until the changes made it onto TQ ... or for trusting CCP I suppose.



I didn't wrote them down myselfs too, but yes, Mackinaw got another nerf with todays patch.

Sincerly

Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nephew from the Serpentis founder )

I found where I posted the original SiSi Mack #'s I got : here. The CPU/cap are unchanged so I can't easily build a better tank. The base stats are nerfed.

Basically, when I first tested, the EHP was 48K to 53K depending on toon/skills (fleeted without Orca).

Right now n SiSi, the same fleet gets 32K - 33K with same toons/loadouts, no Orca buffs. And only 30K if not fleeted. So much for "solo" mining. 30K EHP is relatively cheap to gank, although maybe not a single destroyer.

Sheetyeah - major nerf for miners ... before it ever made it to TQ. We all expected the Hulk to continue to be a paper tank, but they said that. For the Mack the key word was "solo". Well, not really with only a 29K-30K tank.

I guess it's disappointing because if this were really "balancing", they'd let us test things out for a while on TQ. If it was found to be truly unbalanced on TQ, THEN make the adjustments. And CCP even said : suicide ganking was never intended to be a profitable mini profession, which was one of the major reasons for the balancing changes.

Let's wait and see how well the new Mack holds up on TQ. My corp's mining fleet will be available right after the patch on Wednesday if any gankers want to take a shot at us. I'll post any results. I think it's gonna be Macks 4TW.

As for the hulk, I don't think I'll ever fly one again, even in a fleet. They are still wildly under-tanked and now, very inconvenient to use. Hulks :: 4TL.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-08-06 21:46:53 UTC
Sorry for posting back2back.

There is another issue with Macks. The rigs are a big part of the tank. So if you mine Ice, you replace a tank rig with an Ice rig. So mining ice in the current revision of the Mack is a dangerous buisiness. Ice Macks are not for the solo miner as the new ship role is supposed to be. Only way I can see to make survivable solo, is to fleet them up... Yah, incompatible with defined role...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2012-08-06 21:47:50 UTC
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
sucks that ccp decided not to protect the d-bags who prefer zero risk "gameplay", like mining, just because they cried.


Well Richard, to let me make it clear, the Miner Asked since years and days for a overhaul from the Mining barges which was allready overdue to the plain fact, Other ships ( Combat ships especially Destroyers ) got rebalanced allready in a way so they are more effective also weapons as well, but Mining ships and other industrials are stagnant since years.

So CCP brougth finally the changes, but after the big Whinning occoured on the Forums by the Gankers they quickly turned around and mostly weakened their first changes to the current level as i allready said, a level which is regarding to Hulk and Mack just laughable and more a nerf then a buff.

Anyways, i'm outta here and let you brickheads continue your flaming.

Sincerly

Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nephew from the Serpentis founder )


Use the skiff? Thats whats its built for.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#34 - 2012-08-06 21:49:23 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
The rigs are a big part of the tank. So if you mine Ice, you replace a tank rig with an Ice rig.

Ooooohhhhhhhh.

I see the problem here. You should have the tank added as a buff, right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2012-08-06 21:50:07 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
OP :: do you have the before and after numbers? I'm on SiSi now and seems like my Mack yesterday had 10K more EHP, but I did not write it down as I thought yesterday's tankage was the final rev.

Real numbers please ? (If you have them.)

If what you say is true, then I wasted my money, because I bought 3 Macks expecting to get the tank that was on SiSi yesterday... Stupid me for not waiting until the changes made it onto TQ ... or for trusting CCP I suppose.



I didn't wrote them down myselfs too, but yes, Mackinaw got another nerf with todays patch.

Sincerly

Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nephew from the Serpentis founder )

I found where I posted the original SiSi Mack #'s I got : here. The CPU/cap are unchanged so I can't easily build a better tank. The base stats are nerfed.

Basically, when I first tested, the EHP was 48K to 53K depending on toon/skills (fleeted without Orca).

Right now n SiSi, the same fleet gets 32K - 33K with same toons/loadouts, no Orca buffs. And only 30K if not fleeted. So much for "solo" mining. 30K EHP is relatively cheap to gank, although maybe not a single destroyer.

Sheetyeah - major nerf for miners ... before it ever made it to TQ. We all expected the Hulk to continue to be a paper tank, but they said that. For the Mack the key word was "solo". Well, not really with only a 29K-30K tank.

I guess it's disappointing because if this were really "balancing", they'd let us test things out for a while on TQ. If it was found to be truly unbalanced on TQ, THEN make the adjustments. And CCP even said : suicide ganking was never intended to be a profitable mini profession, which was one of the major reasons for the balancing changes.

Let's wait and see how well the new Mack holds up on TQ. My corp's mining fleet will be available right after the patch on Wednesday if any gankers want to take a shot at us. I'll post any results. I think it's gonna be Macks 4TW.

As for the hulk, I don't think I'll ever fly one again, even in a fleet. They are still wildly under-tanked and now, very inconvenient to use. Hulks :: 4TL.


FYI, 30k tank = at least 3 t2 tornados, something that never happens.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#36 - 2012-08-06 21:52:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
feel free to show the class that killmail of a hulk by a "lolnoobship"


as much as he is going over the top.. he does have a point. CCP promised to make them so they couldn't get ganked by a dessy or two.. and the first set of changes did that. then they nerfed the tanks back down into shite.

except for skiff/proc


Working as intended. Want the best tank? get a skiff.


Actually not working as intended per the original dev blog which said they were under tanked and that they were going to make it so that it wasn't so easy to suicide them.

still too easy to suicide them.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2012-08-06 21:52:25 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Sorry for posting back2back.

There is another issue with Macks. The rigs are a big part of the tank. So if you mine Ice, you replace a tank rig with an Ice rig. So mining ice in the current revision of the Mack is a dangerous buisiness. Ice Macks are not for the solo miner as the new ship role is supposed to be. Only way I can see to make survivable solo, is to fleet them up... Yah, incompatible with defined role...



How about you dont fit the ice rigs and instead fit tank rigs?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2012-08-06 21:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Denidil wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
feel free to show the class that killmail of a hulk by a "lolnoobship"


as much as he is going over the top.. he does have a point. CCP promised to make them so they couldn't get ganked by a dessy or two.. and the first set of changes did that. then they nerfed the tanks back down into shite.

except for skiff/proc


Working as intended. Want the best tank? get a skiff.


Actually not working as intended per the original dev blog which said they were under tanked and that they were going to make it so that it wasn't so easy to suicide them.

still too easy to suicide them.


If you tank them they arnt easy to gank. Also, the skiff is the tanky one, if they could all tank as well as the skiff then whats the point of the skiff?

CCP have given you loads of options, its all up to you now.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-08-06 21:59:53 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
sucks that ccp decided not to protect the d-bags who prefer zero risk "gameplay", like mining, just because they cried.


no wonder you live on the forums, you must be shunned from any other social activity due to small brain size. Miners take zero risk? really? Lol

so many no life trash tossing their worthless 2 cents in every thread. thanks for making me feel better about my brain, kids.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-08-06 22:01:17 UTC
step 1) read unsub threat
step 2) ignore thread and poster

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