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What can we do about Railguns and Beams?
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#41 - 2012-08-06 16:29:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Remove on-grid probing.


That won't have the effect you want. It'd be quite easy to probe just off grid with a covert ops, make a bookmark, get back on grid, and fleet warp to the bookmark. You'd just be shoving combat probing to off-grid alts.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Pilna Vcelka
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-08-06 16:32:48 UTC
Just to make sure its clear - PvP in EVE isnt fought only with large guns (eg. Nagas, Rokhs). Shockingly enough to 0.0 people, a lot of players PvP with medium sized weapons on medium sized ships and on those rails really do suck.

Sidenote: while caldari pilots, for long rage PvP, use missiles and rails with supreme shield tanking, gallente pilots are left with either subpar rails or subpar drones and subpar armor tanking on top of that (unless they decide to go with shield tanking, which is not really what their ships were intended for).

While I often hear about drake / tengu / random_minmatar_ship_really fleets, I rarely hear reports of gallente fleets. Any of the "modern EVE warfare experts" who could explain the balance in that to stupid me ?
snake pies
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#43 - 2012-08-06 16:35:57 UTC
reduce powergrid req
Suqq Madiq
#44 - 2012-08-06 16:37:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Remove on-grid probing.


Great idea.

No wait, it's a terrible idea.

On-grid probing is not a problem.

Stupid people who don't snipe while aligned to something they can warp to or spend a few milliseconds checking D-scan are the problem.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#45 - 2012-08-06 17:32:30 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
If the only strength to Rails is range, the range should be ABSURD.

For instance, Javelin (shortest range ammunition) on naked (no gyros or tracking enhancers) t2 425mm rails should be 90km+.

The strength from rails should be more dps AT RANGE, less alpha than artys. Best way to do that is extend the range of the shortest range ammo. Do that for all size rails (especially medium.... also, less pg need plzthxbai)


Railguns have plenty of range as it is.


I have to agree said Goon here, The issue is not range, it's that Rails just don't have the damage to be all that effective. What the could use is either a firing rate bonus or just more raw damage.


ROF increase with cap decrease would help (keep it balanced). You're right about the range, I guess I was just thinking about t2 ammo. Anyways, maybe rails (except med rails, still would like less pg) are fine. The ammunition is what sucks.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-08-06 17:47:44 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Remove on-grid probing.


That won't have the effect you want. It'd be quite easy to probe just off grid with a covert ops, make a bookmark, get back on grid, and fleet warp to the bookmark. You'd just be shoving combat probing to off-grid alts.


Or just make it a corp bookmark and anyone can use it. That's why I said you'll have issues with this solution - either you'll shove the probing to off-grid or you'll end up with serious issues probing ships in the first place. Needless to say, both are a bad idea unless you're a bear that doesn't want to get probed :p
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#47 - 2012-08-06 18:03:56 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Rails are the weapon by which TEST's conquest of Delve, Querious and Period Basis was wrought, you know.


Bullcrap pure overwhelmong numbers was how Delve, Querious and Period Basis was brought down.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-08-06 18:14:56 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Rails are the weapon by which TEST's conquest of Delve, Querious and Period Basis was wrought, you know.


Bullcrap pure overwhelmong numbers was how Delve, Querious and Period Basis was brought down.

I think weak leadership on SoCo's part had more to do with it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#49 - 2012-08-06 18:17:38 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Remove on-grid probing.


Great idea.

No wait, it's a terrible idea.

On-grid probing is not a problem.

Stupid people who don't snipe while aligned to something they can warp to or spend a few milliseconds checking D-scan are the problem.


Yeah, actually it is.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#50 - 2012-08-06 18:17:57 UTC
Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Rails are the weapon by which TEST's conquest of Delve, Querious and Period Basis was wrought, you know.


Bullcrap pure overwhelmong numbers was how Delve, Querious and Period Basis was brought down.

I think weak leadership on SoCo's part had more to do with it.


Not at all, it was simply that SoCo didn't want to put the Supers on the table because they would be blobbed out by the massive amount of enemy supers.

Now that Test doesn't have half of null sec behind them, they are starting to lose.
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-08-06 18:18:48 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Rails are the weapon by which TEST's conquest of Delve, Querious and Period Basis was wrought, you know.


Bullcrap pure overwhelmong numbers was how Delve, Querious and Period Basis was brought down.

I think weak leadership on SoCo's part had more to do with it.


Not at all, it was simply that SoCo didn't want to put the Supers on the table because they would be blobbed out by the massive amount of enemy supers.

Now that Test doesn't have half of null sec behind them, they are starting to lose.

I thought the strategy was to hide in stations?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#52 - 2012-08-06 18:20:03 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Rails are the weapon by which TEST's conquest of Delve, Querious and Period Basis was wrought, you know.

Bullcrap pure overwhelmong numbers was how Delve, Querious and Period Basis was brought down.

I think weak leadership on SoCo's part had more to do with it.

Not at all, it was simply that SoCo didn't want to put the Supers on the table because they would be blobbed out by the massive amount of enemy supers.

Now that Test doesn't have half of null sec behind them, they are starting to lose.

Oh dear, they're starting to lose?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#53 - 2012-08-06 18:31:11 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Rails are the weapon by which TEST's conquest of Delve, Querious and Period Basis was wrought, you know.

Bullcrap pure overwhelmong numbers was how Delve, Querious and Period Basis was brought down.

I think weak leadership on SoCo's part had more to do with it.

Not at all, it was simply that SoCo didn't want to put the Supers on the table because they would be blobbed out by the massive amount of enemy supers.

Now that Test doesn't have half of null sec behind them, they are starting to lose.

Oh dear, they're starting to lose?


I'll take your remark as serious, and leave it at the Border wars are not looking good for Tests future in Querious.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2012-08-06 18:39:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Seishi Maru wrote:
Long range guns are EXTREMELY well balanced! If they were not then Rokhs would not be used so much currently!
…aside from the fact that the one factor that is really meant to differentiate them has largely been rendered irrelevant due to other mechanics (probing). So the “extreme” balance is only on paper and only if you look at the guns on their own without any kind of context.



Learn how to bubble and hold a fleet still with proper tackle ships and you can dictate whatever range you want, probing is useless if you can't warp to what was probed.

The LULZ Boat.
for thelulz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-08-06 18:44:48 UTC  |  Edited by: for thelulz
Let me warp in at 150 / 200 / 250 - this would help massively for rails.

edit - found this from 2006 when the Tier 3's were due out: http://eve-search.com/thread/374148-0

Quote:
Nobody really knows what the tier 3 battleships will be like when they come out, but I can tell you this with certainty: railguns aren't that hot.


Hard to think it's still spot on 6 years later. This game evolves way too slow.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-08-06 18:52:02 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Rails are the weapon by which TEST's conquest of Delve, Querious and Period Basis was wrought, you know.


Bullcrap pure overwhelmong numbers was how Delve, Querious and Period Basis was brought down.


hint: they had the ability to match our numbers with ease

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Josef Djugashvilis
#57 - 2012-08-06 19:02:51 UTC
I have only ever flown Gallente ships.

I have a horrible feeling that when I do train up missiles and lazers, (I am thinking of changing my Domi for the Rattlesnake) I am going to feel that I chose the wrong ship/tanking/armament types long ago.

Oh well.

This is not a signature.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-08-06 19:30:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Extend maximum range. Remove on-grid probing.


i can hit over 550km not max damage with railguns i think its more to pratice with those railguns but agree when some one is good in moving there ships well it can be hard to hit them. But range is fine
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#59 - 2012-08-06 19:37:41 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Rails are the weapon by which TEST's conquest of Delve, Querious and Period Basis was wrought, you know.

Bullcrap pure overwhelmong numbers was how Delve, Querious and Period Basis was brought down.

hint: they had the ability to match our numbers with ease

But they didn't want those regions anyway ^___^

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Forum Alt Shaishi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-08-06 20:07:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
That's not to say that something should not be done about on-grid scanning, but I wouldn't go so far as to outright kill it.
I would. There is no reason to have it and it has completely removed sniping it all its forms, thus wiping out an entire class of ships (and ammo).

Thankfully, they are looking at fixing this problem, so there's hope…


Why not just increase the minimum warp distance from 150 km to 300 or 450km?
That would more or less 'fix' the issue with on grid probing and warping right?
Tho i could be wrong.