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Anti-Cloaky Sonar POS Module

Author
Blaspheme Quarantine
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-08-06 02:18:49 UTC
Yep, it's another thread about AFK cloakers. Just to cover the basics real quick - The "AFK cloakers cant do **** to you, they can't even actively report intel on you," "Wait, what's the problem? How much damage can an AFK cloaked ship cause? As far as I know they can't use modules so WTF," "I was blown up by an AFK cloaker yesterday. I'm sure the bastard was AFK the WHOLE DAMN TIME HE WAS SHOOTING ME!!!!!!11" comments are either obvioustroll or incredibly naive, everyone knows that the threat doesn't typically come from the AFK cloaker himself but the cyno/backup he brings.

Personally, I find it a bit irritating that you can "own" space that becomes - for all intense and purposes - locked down by one or two guys sitting around cloaked. AFK? Probably. Something you want to bet your mining/pve/whatever ship on? Probably not. I heard rumors of CCP suggesting a sonar-type triangulating module to hunt down cloakies; why not introduce this as a POS module?

By introducing such a POS module, you're not directly nerfing cloak ships by requiring capacitor use or other such nonsense, and you're not allowing just any old Joe Shmoe to throw a module on his ship and hunt down the elusive AFK Cloaker. Rather, you're allowing those who have enough authority over a system to construct POSes the freedom to force hostile cloakie pilots to simply keep an eye on their D-scan and move around if they wish to remain in hostile space, same as any other hostile pilots would have to do.
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#2 - 2012-08-06 02:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
no.

For the record, an afk cloaker can't drop a cyno either... A. because you can't drop a cyno while cloaked.. and B. you can't do anything while AFK.

First let me just say.. Sonar? really?.. if you are serious about "sonar" the range would have to be super short. Sonar would not detect anything long range but large planetary bodies. and second, a POS module with range enough to matter would also kill the game by allowing mischieve/exploitation at gate camps.. as many are pretty close to planets and their moons.

This is definitely not needed especially for something as silly as being scared of an absentee player.
Remove local and be done with the problem.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-08-06 03:38:34 UTC
I know that the uncertainty of knowing someone hostile is in system is bad. But I don't think that it should be quite as crippling as some folks are making it out to be.

A cloaky ship can bring a cyno. A cloaky ship can use said cyno. A cloaky ship can also pack some pretty significant weapontry. But, that threat has always struck me as rather low. Even when I was in it. Quite frankly, I forgot all about them after a couple of hours. I also never had the misfortune of losing a ship to one. I was too busy losing my ship to other silly shenanigans.

It strikes me as more of a threat managment issue than anything else. People need to establish a way to cope within their own corps. After all, calling upon CCP to fix every piece of mind issue distracts from important balance and delays new content in favor of something that is comparitively minor.
Ned Black
Driders
#4 - 2012-08-06 06:11:35 UTC
Blaspheme Quarantine wrote:
By introducing such a POS module, you're not directly nerfing cloak ships by requiring capacitor use or other such nonsense, and you're not allowing just any old Joe Shmoe to throw a module on his ship and hunt down the elusive AFK Cloaker. Rather, you're allowing those who have enough authority over a system to construct POSes the freedom to force hostile cloakie pilots to simply keep an eye on their D-scan and move around if they wish to remain in hostile space, same as any other hostile pilots would have to do.


Yea, because there is not like a gazillion POSes in every system right? So nobody would even dream of just adding that modul to an already existing POS... noooo...

And there surely isnt any little issue that you KNOW without a shadow of a doubt the second a cloaker enters your system, no matter if it enters through a gate, a cyno, a wormhole or is simply logging on... so much for covert

The only time anti-cloaking measures can be start making sense is the day that you can enter the system in a cov ops cloak and you will have no idea about it unless you have a scout sitting there watching the cloaker enter the system or if you get a lucky directional hit.

This and any other kind of "anti-cloaking" people I have seen seem to want to be able to kill the cloakers in their... yet they seem to fight kicking and screaming to keep local as it is so that they can instantly tell if someone is around... now why is that? Could it be because you use local to be perfectly safe and this anti cloak thing, no matter which flavour you put it in, would simply make you even safer? Nullsec is way to safe doing PvE in as it is...
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#5 - 2012-08-06 07:06:09 UTC
Groan.

No.

Work as a corp to deal with your problems. Either go back to high sec if you can't hack it or persuade your corp to fulfil their function of defending their space. Bait traps whilst ratting. If they don't bite, they're AFK and you've ratted. If they bite you spring the trap and get a kill.

If your corp can't do this they don't deserve their space and that "AFK" cloaker has fulfilled their purpose splendidly, highlighting this fact.

There is no AFK cloaker issue. There is an issue with corps being incompetent and players refusing to adapt.

You know, nullsec carebears are seeming way more whiney and pathetic than high sec carebears these days. I think it's funny.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#6 - 2012-08-06 07:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jint Hikaru
So you want to click a button in your POS, and receive information on every cloaked ship in the system.

Great job, you have achived two things....

1. Shown an amazing ability to post the same poorly thought out idea that many people have posted before.

2. Completely broken Wormholes.



Please try and put some thought into your unoriginal ideas next time, and try to see how they would affect the whole game rather than, "Derp I want rid of cloakers in my system"

Oh, and as a 2month old newb corp'er, you have not got the experience to be suggesting changes that affect the game as a whole. Please play Eve for a while before posting in this part of the forum.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-08-06 07:21:12 UTC
Blaspheme Quarantine wrote:
Personally, I find it a bit irritating that you can "own" space that becomes - for all intense and purposes - locked down by one or two guys sitting around cloaked. AFK? Probably. Something you want to bet your mining/pve/whatever ship on? Probably not. I heard rumors of CCP suggesting a sonar-type triangulating module to hunt down cloakies; why not introduce this as a POS module?


First, Sonar+Space=NOTHING!!!

Now that that's out of the way lets move on to your reasoning behind this little idea of yours.

I find it funny how a ship that for all intents and purposes is built specifically to infiltrate and survive deep behind enemy lines to be given away as quickly and easily as a glance towards local. Covert Operations doesn't exhist in Eve because local chat intel is in place. Reducing the value of that intel (this is achieved by parking yourself in a system for a few days) is the only way to gain accurate information or viable targets.

I understand that 'your' space is being threatened, and you've worked hard to retain that space (or not). Why devalue the application of our only way to conduct covert operations with the tools that we are given to the point that it would kill all forms of black ops warfare in general.

Just sit and think about it for a moment, as an AFK Cloaker I'm just trying to fight you the way that I want to fight you. That is through fear and intimidation, local chat allows me to do this without effort. Without local chat intel I would have to actively engage one of your ships (that I would have to hunt down) and risk losing my own extremely fragile ship in the process; and on top of that I would have to maintain a certain rate of attacks to continue to intimidate you, not to mention if you should move I'd have to hunt you down all over again.

So with that in mind I wouldn't mind a slow (30-60 seconds), short range (on grid only), cloak finder. Removing local would actually help you!

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-06 09:47:58 UTC
Yawn

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#9 - 2012-08-06 11:02:20 UTC
Lets just sort this out right here, right now: AFK cloakers are not a god damn issue. Period. They are, by definition, incapable of doing anything to anyone. If you have such a battered, frail psyche that you cower in fear because there's an extra name in local (gasp! Another person in a MMO! I'm scared! Hold me!) well... thats your problem. It's not a problem with the mechanics of the game. HTFU
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#10 - 2012-08-06 11:04:01 UTC
The best part is when carebears cry about afk cloaking when you're in their system in a interceptor in a safe burning at 4km/s for the last 2 days without them doing anything.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-06 11:13:00 UTC
-Remove local

-Give destroyers a sonar module for finding cloakies

Everybody happy! Big smile
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#12 - 2012-08-06 13:18:03 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
The best part is when carebears cry about afk cloaking when you're in their system in a interceptor in a safe burning at 4km/s for the last 2 days without them doing anything.

THIS

I find it amazing that so many seem to believe that this tactic is limited to being used by cloaked ships.

This is psyche warfare, your weapons are not needed on your ship so long as they are in your target's mind. They will then also supply you with enough ammo and supporting forces to overwhelm any strategy they can imagine. At this point, they have already lost and are hiding from you.

If cloaking is the only tactic you can imagine that would keep someone from finding you, you have given everyone you cannot find a cloak. You have also given a cloak to everyone you assume you cannot find despite not trying.

You should ask yourself, how did they manage to put themselves into your thoughts?
What told you they were there to be feared?
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#13 - 2012-08-06 13:47:16 UTC
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:
-Remove local

-Give destroyers a sonar module for finding cloakies

Everybody happy! Big smile


No.

Once again: the ability to find or decloak at range completely nerfs every ship that can fit a covert ops cloak. You can't implement something like that without buffing covops, bombers, recons, and T3 covert subs.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#14 - 2012-08-06 13:50:00 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
The best part is when carebears cry about afk cloaking when you're in their system in a interceptor in a safe burning at 4km/s for the last 2 days without them doing anything.

Wow. That would be so stupidly easy to run down if it's truly afk. They should be embarassed.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#15 - 2012-08-06 17:59:36 UTC
HTFU
afk cloaking is fine and required.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-08-06 20:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread Pirate Pete
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:
-Remove local

-Give destroyers a sonar module for finding cloakies

Everybody happy! Big smile


No.

Once again: the ability to find or decloak at range completely nerfs every ship that can fit a covert ops cloak. You can't implement something like that without buffing covops, bombers, recons, and T3 covert subs.


Combat probes ruin safes! Remove combat probes! Bring back unprobable Tengu!

I don't think anybody should be untouchable, very hard to find sure, but not completely and utterly untouchable. Sonar Destroyers and SB's playing submarine style hide and seek would be a great addition to this game. Plus, without local people would have to send people out to scan for hostiles!

EvE should not be a safe place! Carebears can be suicide ganked, POSes can be seiged, stealth ships can haunt nullbear miners, safes can be probed. You and your cloak ship has no right to safety in a universe that is supposed to be a harsh and cold place.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#17 - 2012-08-06 21:12:37 UTC
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:
You and your cloak ship has no right to safety in a universe that is supposed to be a harsh and cold place.

You utterly failed to comprehend my post.

Every ship designed to fit covert cloak is BALANCED for the fact that it can't be probed down. They're designed to move under cloak and gain position on the enemy. Their offensive and defensive capabilities hinge on their ability to attack with surprise. If you remove that element of surprise, you heavily nerf these classes of ship. What you ask for requires a serious rebalancing of at least 16 different ship types.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Josef Djugashvilis
#18 - 2012-08-06 21:42:30 UTC
A lot of folk do not like miners, so they must be AFK

A lot of folk do not like cloaked ships, so they must also be AFK.

The sense of power one gets from sitting in a cloaked ship in enemy space is one of the most enjoyable aspects of Eve.

Of course, one can only have this feeling of power if the enemy allow you to have it.

This is not a signature.

Marcus Ichiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-08-06 21:44:20 UTC
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:
You and your cloak ship has no right to safety in a universe that is supposed to be a harsh and cold place.


Well then in that case remove stations so docking up is impossible.

You and your ratting Tengu has no right to safety in a universe that is supposed to be a harsh and cold place.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#20 - 2012-08-07 06:07:54 UTC
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:

I don't think anybody should be untouchable, very hard to find sure, but not completely and utterly untouchable. Sonar Destroyers and SB's playing submarine style hide and seek would be a great addition to this game. Plus, without local people would have to send people out to scan for hostiles!

EvE should not be a safe place! Carebears can be suicide ganked, POSes can be seiged, stealth ships can haunt nullbear miners, safes can be probed. You and your cloak ship has no right to safety in a universe that is supposed to be a harsh and cold place.


Ok, how many times do people need this explaining: Sonar is sound and requires a medium in which to work. It does NOT work in space. Drop the sonar idea. It's stupid.

Also, as has been explained before in so many of these ludicrous threads: Being cloaked is basically the same as being in a station in as much as you're invulnerable and incapable of causing violance. If you think that being invulnerable whilst cloaked is wrong(tm) then your ship should never be allowed to dock and should just float around in space when you're logged off so people can kill you. Don't be completely obsurd! There is nothing unbalanced about cloaks in the same way there is nothing unbalanced about being docked or logged off.

You say "you and your cloak ship". So you're speaking specifically from your own perspective, ie from the perspective of someone who doesn't use cloaked ships, and claiming that that is enough justification for your opinions. You seem to have no idea about game balance otherwise you'd know that cov ops ships are currently well balanced. All other cloaks are balanced also due to the negative effects of having one fitted and the inability to warp cloaked.

Try thinking about the game from the game's perspective, from a balance perspective rather than from your perspective; the perspective of someone who doesn't use cloaks and gets frustrated because he's too much of a wet carebear to carry on in the face of someone who's AFK.

For crying out loud, grow a pair.
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