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500m to declare war on Goonswarm? (AKA: why are small corps penalised by the wardec system?)

First post
Author
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-08-06 04:45:08 UTC
The new war dec system sucks bad.

With neutral's and open enrollment for the defender, its a total ******* joke.

I war dec'd a 13 man corp, wound up with over 50 people on my watchlist.
Ashrik Tyr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-08-06 04:46:57 UTC
I haven't talked to our personal CCP liason yet, but if I had to guess then I'd say that CCP gets that the obvious point of empire wardecs against large null groups are for the sole purpose of getting easy ganks on solo people carrying loot into/out of hisec.

So maybe they only want to encourage hisec "wars" that are actually wars instead of things used to pad killstats and get easy loot.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-08-06 05:08:31 UTC
Ashrik Tyr wrote:
I haven't talked to our personal CCP liason yet, but if I had to guess then I'd say that CCP gets that the obvious point of empire wardecs against large null groups are for the sole purpose of getting easy ganks on solo people carrying loot into/out of hisec.

So maybe they only want to encourage hisec "wars" that are actually wars instead of things used to pad killstats and get easy loot.


Your ignorance is absolutely legendary.

What war have you been involved in where shutting down the supply line was not an obvious goal? Lol if you seriously were.

Easy ganks a problem for you? You're in the wrong fuckin corp if they are.

If its easy to take something significant from the biggest alliance in the game the game must be broken huh?

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#44 - 2012-08-06 07:03:31 UTC
Ashrik Tyr wrote:
I haven't talked to our personal CCP liason yet, but if I had to guess then I'd say that CCP gets that the obvious point of empire wardecs against large null groups are for the sole purpose of getting easy ganks on solo people carrying loot into/out of hisec.

So maybe they only want to encourage hisec "wars" that are actually wars instead of things used to pad killstats and get easy loot.


I would think that a "large null group" would be able to protect its people carrying loot into hisec?

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-08-06 10:06:43 UTC
Lady Whipcrack wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:
Want more targets? Pay more...


pay vastly more than the old system? why?

please explain why the change was necessary

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24507212.jpg

i shouldnt need to say anymore

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-08-06 10:19:15 UTC
CCP is a lot like most western governments. They talk a big game about helping the small guy, but do everything to benefit and protect the established big players.

... and don't expect this to change. CCP, or any other game devs, will never be able to withstand the self righteous rage all over the gaming sites from the big organizations if CCP does anything to damage their hold on power.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-08-06 10:23:54 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
I would think that a "large null group" would be able to protect its people carrying loot into hisec?


I would think that you've obviously never been in any corporation with other people in it

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-08-06 10:26:13 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Your ignorance is absolutely legendary.

What war have you been involved in where shutting down the supply line was not an obvious goal? Lol if you seriously were.

Easy ganks a problem for you? You're in the wrong fuckin corp if they are.

If its easy to take something significant from the biggest alliance in the game the game must be broken huh?


"shutting down the supply line" goddamn i love armchair generals in eve

nobody anywhere runs anything of importance from hisec to nullsec with characters in the alliance

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#49 - 2012-08-06 10:51:14 UTC
I never found it very difficult to go to war with big alliances... just join the alliance they are at war with and you can fight them till pigs learn to fly.

On a side note, I generally prefer to antagonize people into war decing me, rather than paying for it. Seems a silly concept to me to pay to be allowed to kill someone.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 

Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-08-06 10:53:49 UTC
you could also ask nicely if they could declare war against you, asking wont hurt right? Idea
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-08-06 11:16:06 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:

Your ignorance is absolutely legendary.

What war have you been involved in where shutting down the supply line was not an obvious goal? Lol if you seriously were.

Easy ganks a problem for you? You're in the wrong fuckin corp if they are.

If its easy to take something significant from the biggest alliance in the game the game must be broken huh?



This must be one of the most hilarious posts Ive read in a while. I applaud you.

While its true that CCP has created a system where everything favors the large alliance, the wardec costs arent the thing to do something about it. They are completely irrelevant.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-08-06 11:54:05 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
While its true that CCP has created a system where everything favors the large alliance


you mean to say that this "massively multiplayer online game" is inherently inclined to favor larger groups?

you don't say, i will tweet everyone in the gaming media about this with haste

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-08-06 11:58:09 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:
Want more targets? Pay more...


Pretty much this and

Cede Forster wrote:
you could also ask nicely if they could declare war against you, asking wont hurt right? Idea


this (awesome workaround btw!)

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance

Lady Whipcrack
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-08-06 14:26:13 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Lady Whipcrack wrote:
Please tell me how this new wardec system is supposed to be 'better'?

Apart from the obvious minor benefit that war is slightly easier to administer, it seems setup to protect large alliances. Not that alliances even have to be that large before war costs become painful for smaller corporations.

So please explain to me how this is an improvement on the old system. For everyone apart from massive alliances, that is.

In short, it's vastly more expensive to declare war. Why? It's not like 0.0 alliances don't enjoy targets in empire as a break from 0.0 blobbage, so this change seems to benefit no-one (apart from Solar Citizens)



if you can't afford 500m easily, then wardeccing goonswarm would be rather pointless.


I can afford it, it just seems poor value for money compared to the old system.

What I want to know is why this change was necessary, as it seems to benefit no-one. Everyone likes wardecs except large renter alliances like Solar Citizens.
Lady Whipcrack
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-08-06 14:34:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Whipcrack
Vince Arron wrote:


There is this thing called roaming. and gathering Intel of enemy movements. you are not going to take all of goon space with 5 people but you can go in with a scout and 4 assault Frigs and kill ratters. Or you can keep bawling on the forums, whatever.


or maybe I could carry on asking the legitimate question of why the new wardec system seeks to 'protect' large alliances from smaller entities?

the old system wasn't perfect, but it was better than the new one - why was the change necessary and who exactly benefits from it?

I'm sure Goonswarm would be perfectly happy to have lots of crappy small corps wardec them in empire, for some easy lulz away from the blobbage... well, that isn't going to happen with the new wardec system, and I think that's a shame for all concerned

he's a simple suggestion: the cost of wardecs should be based on the size of the corporation/alliance making the declaration, not the alliance you are wardeccing... if you want 8000 people to have a license to gank in empire, pay more for it... surely that makes vastly more sense than the current system and allows cost to scale with affordablity more pragmatically
Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-08-06 16:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarik Olecar
Sarik's Six Simple Steps To Nullsec Tears

1.0 - Create an alt with a humorous name or avatar.

2.0 - Allot sufficient time to allow for training of a Cloaking Device. To maximize your tear collection, consider training for a Covert Operations, ship or possibly even a Tech 3 or Recon cruiser.

3.0 - Research popular alliances with regards to they're rental and ratting policies. Try to find exact systems or constellations where these activity occur, as they are good indicators of the presence of null bears.

4.0 - After fitting your newly acquired stealth and/or stealth-combat ship, begin your journey to systems which your research indicates has the highest probability of "nullbearing". Be warned that many nullsec creatures are territorial, and will not take kindly to your trespassing, so be sure to learn how to avoid traps such as Gate Camps.

5.0 - Once you've arrived at your destination, survey the surrounding area and examine the local wildlife. After you've confirmed that your choice system does in fact contain ample game, locate yourself to a safe-spot or other celestial and activate your Cloaking Device.

6.0 - Frightened by your presence, the null bear will often retreat to its habitat, attempting to wait out your intrusion. This leaves the null bear without any means of ISK generation, and will eventually starve - remaining unable to contribute to his alliance rent. These action will ripple upwards, so be sure as to place your cup so that you can maximize you tear harvesting.

Bonus Step - Some locals may attempt to continue "nullbearing" in-spite of your presence, and may even become complacent to you. This is counterproductive, and without reparation may invalidate your efforts. By having a cloaked Recon or Tech 3 you leave the ability to place small hit-and-run attacks on the unsuspecting. This will not only maintain the null bear's fear of you, but also increase your tear harvest significantly.

Hows my posting? Call 1-800-747-7633 to leave feedback.

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-08-06 16:08:25 UTC
Sarik Olecar wrote:
words


you should tell them the isk/hr in afk cloaking

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-08-06 16:10:47 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Sarik Olecar wrote:
words


you should tell them the isk/hr in afk cloaking


Once they learn the joy of being an ass, Tears/hr is all they'll ever know...

Hows my posting? Call 1-800-747-7633 to leave feedback.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#59 - 2012-08-06 16:13:21 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Sarik Olecar wrote:
words


you should tell them the isk/hr in afk cloaking

Never not isk per hour when afk cloaking.

Or ganking for that matter.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lady Whipcrack
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-08-06 20:48:37 UTC
have ccp actually said why cost is based on the target rather than the corporation/alliance who are declaring war?

I mean, it even makes lol-RP sense: CONCORD licenses are allocated to the party declaring war, therefore it is more expensive for large entities to declare war than smaller ones

it also stops protecting large entities by creating ISK barriers, and promotes wardecs by scaling affordablity in a sensible manner