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Why is ISBoxer Allowed But Other Macros Banned?

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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-08-05 14:46:47 UTC
Simple question. How come CCP permits some types of botting?
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#2 - 2012-08-05 14:49:46 UTC
ISBoxer isn't botting. That is why.

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Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-08-05 14:49:58 UTC
Like what?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#4 - 2012-08-05 14:53:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
ISboxer isn't a bot, it can be used as the foundation for a bot but in its vanilla form is simply a tool that allows people to run multiple clients.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-08-05 14:56:31 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
ISboxer isn't a bot, it can be used as the foundation for a bot but in it's vanilla form is simply a tool that allows people to run multiple clients.


Which the computer is enabling, not the human.

Humans should have to run each client manually.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#6 - 2012-08-05 14:58:05 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
ISboxer isn't a bot, it can be used as the foundation for a bot but in it's vanilla form is simply a tool that allows people to run multiple clients.


Which the computer is enabling, not the human.

Humans should have to run each client manually.

They are. The GMs have said that mouse broadcasting is not against the rules. So deal with it.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#7 - 2012-08-05 15:01:20 UTC
Botting consists of

A stored set of keystrokes that get sent to the client over minutes or hours of time, or

A program that looks at the screen or other program data and based on that information controls the client

In both cases the user starts it up and can leave, and have the client controlled without the user being there.

ISBoxer does not do any of that. You push a button, commands are sent. A direct response to a user action. Want more to happen? You got to push a button again. ISBoxer does not control the client, it helps you control the client. You are still making the decisions, in real time while sitting at the computer, as to what to actually do.

Although CCP has not made such a rule, many game companies have a "5 second" rule. Whatever happens when you activate something like ISBoxer has to complete in 5 seconds.

The test CCP uses seems to be: When the client gets a command, is that coming from a user sitting at the keyboard making a decision as to what to do?

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Ghazu
#8 - 2012-08-05 15:04:26 UTC
duhhhh does it do stuff while you are afk?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-08-05 15:57:03 UTC
I am REALLY suspicious of all these people who know a lot about ISBoxer ...

j/k. Bots make decisions and control the client from reading the current game info via direct database calls. Macro's are a set of pre-recorded key strokes and mouse clicks and are quite unintelligent (no decision making).

In both cases, the player can be AFK. That is the difference. If you remember Ultima Online, the Devs had a similar attitude as the CCP Devs. If the player is at the keyboard and actively directing the game, it's cool to use "helper macro's". If the player is sending commands once an hour from an iPhone or is passed out drunk while the code plays the game, ain't cool. WoW even has a built in macroing system...

My G15 Keyboard is a good example. It does nothing by itself. But I have prgrammed it up to do things like fire up my tank components (7 keystrokes :: 1 keystroke). Alternatively, my G15 performs some intentioanlly heinous key combos to control drones (allowed by game), so I can reserve the easier hot key combos for manual usage. The material point being that the G15 operates in real time and is triggered by the human. It takes just as long to execute the keystrokes as I would do manually, it just helps to avoid the drudgery.

Should I be banned for macroing if I am at the board actively directing activity? [Now watch me get banned for admitting that I use a G15...]
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#10 - 2012-08-05 16:35:56 UTC
Talking of bots, there was a gay pride parade in my city today.

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Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-08-05 16:48:34 UTC
If you look at Suddenly Forums ForumKings's posting history you'll see that he's nothing but a gimmick account for posting whining shitposts. Stop debating him.

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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#12 - 2012-08-05 17:12:30 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
If you look at Suddenly Forums ForumKings's posting history you'll see that he's nothing but a gimmick account for posting whining shitposts. Stop debating him.


Suddenly Whining ForumWhines?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#13 - 2012-08-05 18:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
I shall leave this here for the op
Last definite Dev response on software like ISBoxer that isn't non commital

GM Lelouch wrote:

Hello there,

To make a long story short, automation of gameplay is not permitted; players must be manually issuing the commands to control their character(s) at all times.

Our stance on programs such as Synergy and hardware/software combination such as the G15 keyboard is that they can be legitimately used as long as gameplay isn't automated. Synergy allows you to move your mouse cursor to multiple different monitors which are hooked up to different computers and we do not have any qualms with players using the program for this purpose. If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. If Synergy is used in conjunction with some other program to automate gameplay, it would not be permitted. G15 "macros" which allow you to group different commands into one keypress are allowed. For example, setting your G1 key to press F1, F2, F3 and so on for you with one key press is allowed (although this specific command is not as useful as it was before now that we have weapon grouping).

An exceedingly complex G15 macro which would effectively automate gameplay, such as mining, without a need for the player to be present at his keyboard would be against the EULA, regardless of whether the player utilizing said macro is sitting at his keyboard at the time!

Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA.

I hope this clears up this matter.

Best regards,
Senior GM Lelouch
EVE Online Customer Support


CCP Sreegs and the security team don't seem to whitelist software anymore because software like ISBoxer and Synergy can be abused, but used as intended they DO NOT automate gameplay.

I should really give up trying to inject logic and facts into threads started by trolls, but I just can't help myself Ugh

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-08-05 18:45:22 UTC
But what if I'm drunk and need the bot as my designated driver? does CCP condone drunk flying? Shocked

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Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-08-05 18:49:39 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Simple question. How come CCP permits some types of botting?


It's not botting you idiot, botting = PC playing the game for you, ISboxer allows you to control multiple accounts with one mouse/keyboard you still have to play you can just control more.

The LULZ Boat.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#16 - 2012-08-05 18:55:29 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Talking of bots, there was a gay pride parade in my city today.

Your toon participated?

On topic: Because it's not botting, it's simplifying your interface.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#17 - 2012-08-06 02:56:19 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
If you look at Suddenly Forums ForumKings's posting history you'll see that he's nothing but a gimmick account for posting whining shitposts. Stop debating him.

Never not debate with gimmick accounts.

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Marcus Caspius
#18 - 2012-08-06 05:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Caspius
You're lack of insight makes you appear out of touch. Let me assist you...

IsBoxer Says,
"ISBoxer does not provide any automation, autofire, botting, hacks or other cheating functionality. Top MMORPG publishers including Blizzard Entertainment, Trion Worlds, Sony Online Entertainment, CCP, Turbine, NCSoft and others all allow multiboxing with ISBoxer."

Attention Remember if they claim something and it is false they open themselves up for legal action.

Furthermore...
Attention Here's a link on their site to an official response by Senior GM Lelouch (scroll to the bottom)

http://isboxer.com/index.php/is-isboxer-allowed

Hope this helps.

Grammatical error and spelling mistakes are included for your entertainment!
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-08-06 05:19:56 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Simple question. How come CCP permits some types of botting?


Its on a case to case basis.

You are not allowed to use ISBoxer or bots.

I am allowed to use both, but i choose to only use ISboxer.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-08-06 06:38:37 UTC
A) What's worse? Some guy botting in the corner that you can blow up at your leisure.
B) The IsBoxer guy with 7 accounts that can attack you at exactly the same time.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
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