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Please fix the Rifter model
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Melina Lin
Universal Frog
#21 - 2012-08-08 14:38:30 UTC
The old Rifter model was really badly broken with the new turrets and launcher sockets. There were clipping errors everywhere and not small ones! This was a good change.
TheNotYou
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-08-08 16:27:37 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Because this isn't a fighter jet game. I know my personal preference is to bigger ships and Frigates have always been too small. Fighter jets belong in games like X-Wing.

Gun Sizes should be based on the gun size. Right now those turrets are too small for a cannon that rapidly fires 125-200mm Shells and is way to small for Artillery. What is more Frigates that hold Drones are too small to hold them.

Basing a ship size directly on the sea role isn't something that should happen because Cruisers have 3-4 times the volume of RL Battleships. Doesn't mean they have to be tiny though.


Let's put personal preferences aside. A fast and mobile vessel should look small compared to slower counterparts. Why does it have the size of a destroyer? It shouldn't.
BTW it wasn't tiny before. Search for Rifter scale at Google Images. It was the size of a 747 on a RL comparison.
Alara IonStorm
#23 - 2012-08-08 18:36:58 UTC
TheNotYou wrote:

Let's put personal preferences aside. A fast and mobile vessel should look small compared to slower counterparts. Why does it have the size of a destroyer? It shouldn't.
BTW it wasn't tiny before. Search for Rifter scale at Google Images. It was the size of a 747 on a RL comparison.

It isn't the size of a Destroyer the Rifter model is about half the length a third the volume. It is much, much smaller currently.

Of course I have seen the 747 picture, way too small. I am glad they fixed it, the Merlin and the Bombers.

I can't wait till they update the rest.
TheNotYou
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-08-08 19:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: TheNotYou
Alara IonStorm wrote:

It isn't the size of a Destroyer the Rifter model is about half the length a third the volume. It is much, much smaller currently.

Of course I have seen the 747 picture, way too small. I am glad they fixed it, the Merlin and the Bombers.

I can't wait till they update the rest.


It wasn't a fix, it was a workaround for clipping issues. The clipping is fixed at the cost of an almost 3 times larger than average frigate hull size and tiny guns. Plus the launcher redundancy is still there as it was on the Drake before they remodeled it.
The Bombers also were not "fixed". They redesigned the T1 variants to fit the torpedo launchers. Very good redesigns btw.

I doubt they will triple the size of other frigates. The concept of an interceptor with a control bridge instead of a cockipt is ridiculous imo.
Alara IonStorm
#25 - 2012-08-09 06:01:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
TheNotYou wrote:

It wasn't a fix, it was a workaround for clipping issues. The clipping is fixed at the cost of an almost 3 times larger than average frigate hull size and tiny guns. Plus the launcher redundancy is still there as it was on the Drake before they remodeled it.
The Bombers also were not "fixed". They redesigned the T1 variants to fit the torpedo launchers. Very good redesigns btw.

I doubt they will triple the size of other frigates. The concept of an interceptor with a control bridge instead of a cockipt is ridiculous imo.

All interceptors craft have been up sized as well as the Dram. Executioner has more then doubled in length, Slasher is about 100m now. Merlin is about 100m, Dram is over 100m. Kestrel, Breacher and Purifier are all +100m. Oh, Vigil is big as well as the Griffon.

They haven't done the Incursus or Punisher yet. Most of Gallente and Amarr are still small.

Looks like the Ceptor Size ones are going to around 60-80 and the Combat ones around 90-180. Breacher is huge compared to the Rifter now and my Atron is not far off the Rifter either.

Lotta resizing in this patch.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#26 - 2012-08-09 06:32:43 UTC
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:
Rifter isn't to large, Destroyers are too small.


Thrasher is bigger than most cruisers....


Anyway... Scale of all ships need to be redone all at one, by the same group of people or else it's just going to continue to get worse and worse as we have seen with this most recent patch.


Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-08-09 06:34:05 UTC
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:
Rifter isn't to large, Destroyers are too small.


Coercer is almost the same size as Tengu and Thrasher's actually bigger than all Minmatar cruisers, how's that too small?
TheNotYou
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-08-09 12:03:31 UTC
Seems like CCP decided to give up of a reasonable scale once and for all. A 100m long interceptor? Look at the Slasher design. That means the cockpit has about 10 cubic meters at least. Why such ship would need so much room?
What I admire the most is the fact that if we didn't had a CQ those discrepancies wouldn't be so evident. How can they **** up immersion this way after introducing a feature to improve it?

Small ships are meant to be small. Interceptors or any other frigate for the matter are related to fighter ships on sci-fi space warfare. And even if they are not meant to relate to fighters, wich I doubt due to that ship class role in the game, no combat ship has a control room that huge for a single person because it increases hull vulnerability. So either the scaling is wrong or design is wrong. Take your pick. Mine is scaling.
Sure, in the end we can always use our imagination and justify it with some futuristic absurd argument that has nothing of scientific about. Let's try not to resort to that.
Richard Crisson
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-08-09 18:49:50 UTC
TheNotYou wrote:
Seems like CCP decided to give up of a reasonable scale once and for all. A 100m long interceptor? Look at the Slasher design. That means the cockpit has about 10 cubic meters at least. Why such ship would need so much room?
What I admire the most is the fact that if we didn't had a CQ those discrepancies wouldn't be so evident. How can they **** up immersion this way after introducing a feature to improve it?

Small ships are meant to be small. Interceptors or any other frigate for the matter are related to fighter ships on sci-fi space warfare. And even if they are not meant to relate to fighters, wich I doubt due to that ship class role in the game, no combat ship has a control room that huge for a single person because it increases hull vulnerability. So either the scaling is wrong or design is wrong. Take your pick. Mine is scaling.
Sure, in the end we can always use our imagination and justify it with some futuristic absurd argument that has nothing of scientific about. Let's try not to resort to that.


This is a little different context, but look at Mass Effect. The Normandy, main ship in that game, is considered a frigate. It has a crew of a few dozen and is quite large compared to the "fighters" of Star Wars fame.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#30 - 2012-08-09 20:03:01 UTC
TheNotYou wrote:
Seems like CCP decided to give up of a reasonable scale once and for all. A 100m long interceptor? Look at the Slasher design. That means the cockpit has about 10 cubic meters at least. Why such ship would need so much room?
What I admire the most is the fact that if we didn't had a CQ those discrepancies wouldn't be so evident. How can they **** up immersion this way after introducing a feature to improve it?

Small ships are meant to be small. Interceptors or any other frigate for the matter are related to fighter ships on sci-fi space warfare. And even if they are not meant to relate to fighters, wich I doubt due to that ship class role in the game, no combat ship has a control room that huge for a single person because it increases hull vulnerability. So either the scaling is wrong or design is wrong. Take your pick. Mine is scaling.
Sure, in the end we can always use our imagination and justify it with some futuristic absurd argument that has nothing of scientific about. Let's try not to resort to that.


Eve does have fighters and fighter bomber size craft.. carriers and supercarriers deply them..
TheNotYou
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-08-09 20:11:44 UTC
I know frigates are big. The previous Rifter was scaled the size of a 747.

Anyway, my thoughts were that pod technology would reduce to one man the EvE frigate crew needs. Seems like though that is not the case and according to evelopedia, frigates have a crew of about 20 members. So, even with everything on its design and role philosophy saying it is just as one, an interceptor can't be treated as a fighter ship.
Everytime I see this tremendously fast and agile, single purpose death vessel on my hangar I must remember there is a tea party going onboard to help my pilot tie his shoes. I guess I must learn how to live with that new concept.
TheNotYou
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-08-09 20:14:58 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:

Eve does have fighters and fighter bomber size craft.. carriers and supercarriers deply them..


Yeah, I realized EvE does not have a ship class similar to a fighter for capsuleers.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-08-09 20:42:00 UTC
Carrier launched fighter is the size of a 1man crew ship .... Frigates are not fighters ... they are not 1man crew vessels.

Look it up , the original graphic design of the frigates is really ****** up with massive cockpits when you scale them to the actual metric size the ship has. When completely forgetting about the metric size, atleast half the frigs look like 1man fighters. Its just bad graphic design dating back to the launch of the game and was never fixed.
TheNotYou
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-08-09 23:24:54 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Carrier launched fighter is the size of a 1man crew ship .... Frigates are not fighters ... they are not 1man crew vessels.

Look it up , the original graphic design of the frigates is really ****** up with massive cockpits when you scale them to the actual metric size the ship has. When completely forgetting about the metric size, atleast half the frigs look like 1man fighters. Its just bad graphic design dating back to the launch of the game and was never fixed.


The funny thing is when I eject my pod from a Slasher it's exactly the same size of that orange cockpit like structure. Now talk about a scale being ****** up.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-08-09 23:33:07 UTC
Astald Ohtar wrote:
EvE players whine about everything Roll


Including whine itself it seems.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
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