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Cloak's and afk cloakers
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Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#181 - 2012-08-22 17:35:42 UTC
But how do you prove they are afk in a way that would not disturb the guy sitting cloaly, watching the screen, patiently waiting?

For example, I know an active customs office. I am cloaked just off it so my bomb will toast any industrial who stops to pick up supplies.

One Saturday, I play for 8 hours, watching... not touching keyboard, just watching for one of you to show up. How would my input to eve be any different than someone who walked away from the pc? How do you determine I am there and not afk?

The problem is, any fuel, cap charge usage, movement requirement, or trick would hamper my ability to stalk you, yet I am there playing. You may think i am afk. That is what I want, but I am not.

So what solution proves I am present?
ShiftyMcFly's Second Cousin
Doomheim
#182 - 2012-08-22 17:36:23 UTC
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
OK, clearly some people are really dumb and need this explained cause they cant figure it out.



That's the point. You can't tell, and shouldn't be able to. It's called a known unknown. It's part of the risk. It's part of the game; and always should be.

There are ways to work around it through MMO gameplay; working with others. It's not hard to figure out.

Also, it's a valid implemtation of PsyOps. Kind of like a sniper in IRL combat situations. You know he "could" be out there looking for you. You just don't know if he currently is.

Get the point,... yet?
Josef Djugashvilis
#183 - 2012-08-22 17:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


You claim "no risk for reward" for the AFK cloaker, but that is not true. He is AFK. He cannot kill you. There is no reward. There is no activity, no gain, no loss, no anything for the AFK cloaker. If he hotdrops you then he clearly wasn't AFK, and its a case of "working as intended" and HTFU

If you choose not to rat while he's in system, that's your fault.
If you refuse to move a single system over, where he's not present, that is again your fault.
You chose to live in nullsec, where getting shot or hotdropped is a possibility. If you can't handle that possibility then take your unnecessarily overpriced carebear ships back to hisec. Nullsec is not your own personal little safe playground. Get that through your damn skulls.

Summary: Terrible nullbears are terrible.


There is a clear reward for an AFK cloaker, he interrupts his enemies isk making activities. Thats a MAYOR gain, and he is doing that AFK.

If someone should be able to cause such an impact on his enemy, he at least should be there playing to do it.

Moving a system over?? are you dumb? cant cope with math?? check how many low and nullsec systems are in eve, check how many active accounts have ANY major alliance. Quite easily every single low/nullsec system in eve can have its own wing of AFK cloakers going for 23/7.

You talk so much about wormhole space, well, go there and shut the **** up. low and nullsec do not generate the same income as WH space, hence the risk is different.

TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Nullsec is not your own personal little safe playground


Let me help you out moron, keyword there. PLAY. its not AFKground, its PLAYground. See the difference?


How do you determine if a player is cloaked and afk, or cloaked and very much at the keyboard and just waiting to pounce on you?

This is not a signature.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#184 - 2012-08-22 18:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
None of this changes the fact there are ways to deal with any cloaker in your system.

Even the simple step of having all of your ratters (and other personel) in the target system and surrounding systems be in the same gang goes a looong way towards making a swift and decisive retaliation possible against any attack from the cloaker or a covert hot drop group. In fact, in this case the more people you have in system actively ratting (or whatever) the better.

An alternative (or additional for that matter) tactic is to simply move most of your people out of system when you suspect he is active, bubble the other side of all exits, and wait for him to leave with decloaking teams ready. If he actually is active, he won't stay by himself in there long as a general rule. Lets face it, despite what if's and protestations otherwise, you will rarely have more than one or two of your key systems tied up in this manner. If you do your decloaking teams and perimeter defenses have been very, very sloppy.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#185 - 2012-08-22 18:39:58 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:

and your an idiot.

When you look up cruel irony in the online dictionary, it has a link to this post.

Mr Epeen Cool
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2012-08-22 18:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Apo Lyptica wrote:
I think we pretty much agree that afk cloakers are a problem. So how about this-

Compounding capacitor use per cycle.

Example- 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450 cap use

Now you ask what about ships who are supposed to use cloaks? Add in a bonus, either flat or per t2 skill. But at the same time, balance it out so a ship that is SUPPOSED to cloak can do so for about an 1.5 hours with out specialized fitting.

Sound good?


Totally disagree with your premise... but this is the kind of dishonest discourse we get from nerfherders whose agenda is not addressing any real problem but instead nerfing a feature they don't want to deal with.

If you are honest about it you will agree that you don't care about the AFK cloaked.. if you are afk you can do nothing; you are no threat .. on the other hand, if you are not afk you might be a threat.

1.5 hours is too short a period for legitamate recon work in WH's or null sec. If you are having to fly your paper thin covert ops 30 jumps into position for recon.. you will have to turn around and leave as soon as you get there or die. I would argue that there is nothing wrong with a cloaker cloaked for many hours writing down names, collecting chat logs, collecting descriptions, names, and location of facilities.

So no.. 100% disagree.. if you want to address the "AFK" remove the cloaked from local and stop worrying about people who aren't there.

P.S. lame statment alert:: " ...balance it out so a ship that is SUPPOSED to cloak can do so for about an 1.5 hours..." What ships are "supposed" to be cloaked?.... Roll

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Victoria Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2012-08-22 18:54:46 UTC
How about this, extend the cloak cycle to something long, say 15-20 min, and disable the autocycle. Allow that next cycle can be reactivated 1-2min before the cycle ends (to be sure you wont decloak accidentally for a sec).

An active player wont have any problem staying cloaked for 23hs that way, as long as he is there reactivating the cloak. But an AFK will lose the cloak in 1 cycle.

Its even good if you need to step away for a few minutes and dont want to log off.

No fuel, no cap, no detecting cloak. It just screws AFK players.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#188 - 2012-08-22 19:03:38 UTC
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
How about this, extend the cloak cycle to something long, say 15-20 min, and disable the autocycle. Allow that next cycle can be reactivated 1-2min before the cycle ends (to be sure you wont decloak accidentally for a sec).

An active player wont have any problem staying cloaked for 23hs that way, as long as he is there reactivating the cloak. But an AFK will lose the cloak in 1 cycle.

Its even good if you need to step away for a few minutes and dont want to log off.

No fuel, no cap, no detecting cloak. It just screws AFK players.


For me, 20 minutes is a bit short. It usually takes me around 30 to take a s**t and wipe my a** so I would extend it a little. Good idea though. + 1
Victoria Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2012-08-22 19:06:30 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:

For me, 20 minutes is a bit short. It usually takes me around 30 to take a s**t and wipe my a** so I would extend it a little. Good idea though. + 1


Based on field test performed recently, you do have a point there. Lets say 1hr just to be sure ... Still fixes the problem.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2012-08-22 19:13:55 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Garreth Vlox wrote:

and your an idiot.

When you look up cruel irony in the online dictionary, it has a link to this post.

Mr Epeen Cool


When you look up irrelevant in the dictionary you will see they didn't even bother with a definition, they just put your picture there.

The LULZ Boat.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#191 - 2012-08-22 19:15:59 UTC
Victoria Dallocort wrote:


It just screws AFK players.


I've looked through the EULA and the TOS and found nothing at all requiring you to be actively logged in at all times. If it's not against the rules, then it's 'working as intended' according to CCP tradition.

You are just being vindictive because they touch you in a bad place.

Mr Epeen Cool
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#192 - 2012-08-22 19:17:55 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


You are just being vindictive because they touch you in a bad place.



They don't even do that. Its just the threat of touching thatsets them off.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#193 - 2012-08-22 19:25:53 UTC
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
Still fixes the problem.
What problem?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Victoria Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2012-08-22 19:35:47 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Victoria Dallocort wrote:


It just screws AFK players.


I've looked through the EULA and the TOS and found nothing at all requiring you to be actively logged in at all times. If it's not against the rules, then it's 'working as intended' according to CCP tradition.

You are just being vindictive because they touch you in a bad place.

Mr Epeen Cool


Never asked to get them banned, hence your mention of EULA and the TOS is irrelevant.

Actually, if they do change it in the way i proposed, you can still AFK cloak, by using a 3rd party software. But then you WOULD be risking getting banned for using a 3rd party app to automate gameplay. And that IS against EULA/TOS.

BTW, read the news, recent action taken against AFK complex farming ... its work as intented, and still action is being taken against it.

AFK = Not playing. CCP should work so that there is no activity that could be done AFK, even cloaking.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2012-08-22 19:41:17 UTC
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Victoria Dallocort wrote:


It just screws AFK players.


I've looked through the EULA and the TOS and found nothing at all requiring you to be actively logged in at all times. If it's not against the rules, then it's 'working as intended' according to CCP tradition.

You are just being vindictive because they touch you in a bad place.

Mr Epeen Cool


Never asked to get them banned, hence your mention of EULA and the TOS is irrelevant.

Actually, if they do change it in the way i proposed, you can still AFK cloak, by using a 3rd party software. But then you WOULD be risking getting banned for using a 3rd party app to automate gameplay. And that IS against EULA/TOS.

BTW, read the news, recent action taken against AFK complex farming ... its work as intented, and still action is being taken against it.

AFK = Not playing. CCP should work so that there is no activity that could be done AFK, even cloaking.


Did the rapier touch you in the bad place? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14229022

The LULZ Boat.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#196 - 2012-08-22 19:44:36 UTC
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Victoria Dallocort wrote:


It just screws AFK players.


I've looked through the EULA and the TOS and found nothing at all requiring you to be actively logged in at all times. If it's not against the rules, then it's 'working as intended' according to CCP tradition.

You are just being vindictive because they touch you in a bad place.

Mr Epeen Cool


Never asked to get them banned, hence your mention of EULA and the TOS is irrelevant.

Actually, if they do change it in the way i proposed, you can still AFK cloak, by using a 3rd party software. But then you WOULD be risking getting banned for using a 3rd party app to automate gameplay. And that IS against EULA/TOS.

BTW, read the news, recent action taken against AFK complex farming ... its work as intented, and still action is being taken against it.

AFK = Not playing. CCP should work so that there is no activity that could be done AFK, even cloaking.

The recent buff to the Mackinaw would seem to indicate that CCP does not completely agree.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#197 - 2012-08-22 19:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:

For me, 20 minutes is a bit short. It usually takes me around 30 to take a s**t and wipe my a** so I would extend it a little. Good idea though. + 1


Based on field test performed recently, you do have a point there. Lets say 1hr just to be sure ... Still fixes the problem.


When it takes you longer to go the the john than it does to have sex it's a sure sign you are over the hill.

I, apparently, am at a perfect age as 5 minutes is sufficient for any or all of the above.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#198 - 2012-08-22 19:48:01 UTC
Victoria Dallocort wrote:

AFK = Not playing. CCP should work so that there is no activity that could be done AFK, even cloaking.


So lets curb it all then. Not just your pet AFKers obsession. Web surfing, yakking on the forums, logged in on a trade alt. going for a dump while gate camping, etc, etc, etc....

If you are logged in while on this forum or watching Netflix while your ore hold fills, you are being bad.

No; CCP will not crack down on this because it opens a huge can of worms. If they required you to do some stupid thing to prove you were at the keyboard or get logged out, you'd see 1/3 of the server population disappear after the first hour of it going live

Just stop being afraid and stop coming up with solutions when there is no problem.

Mr Epeen Cool
Mag's
Azn Empire
#199 - 2012-08-22 19:53:11 UTC
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
BTW, read the news, recent action taken against AFK complex farming ... its work as intented, and still action is being taken against it.

AFK = Not playing. CCP should work so that there is no activity that could be done AFK, even cloaking.
The complex action, was directly due to being able to AFK and gain a substantial financial benefit. So they are not comparable.

As far as AFK activities are concerned, are you asking for the removal of skill training, market trading or manufacturing etc etc?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Victoria Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2012-08-22 19:56:01 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:
Victoria Dallocort wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Victoria Dallocort wrote:


It just screws AFK players.


I've looked through the EULA and the TOS and found nothing at all requiring you to be actively logged in at all times. If it's not against the rules, then it's 'working as intended' according to CCP tradition.

You are just being vindictive because they touch you in a bad place.

Mr Epeen Cool


Never asked to get them banned, hence your mention of EULA and the TOS is irrelevant.

Actually, if they do change it in the way i proposed, you can still AFK cloak, by using a 3rd party software. But then you WOULD be risking getting banned for using a 3rd party app to automate gameplay. And that IS against EULA/TOS.

BTW, read the news, recent action taken against AFK complex farming ... its work as intented, and still action is being taken against it.

AFK = Not playing. CCP should work so that there is no activity that could be done AFK, even cloaking.


Did the rapier touch you in the bad place? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14229022


No, actually someone screwed the standing system and he was blue to me. Ship and implants were replaced within minute, if you really need to know ...