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Skill Unlocks: Dumbing Down EVE For a New Golden Age?

First post
Author
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#41 - 2012-08-04 03:25:50 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
I don't get why people object to these kinds of changes. It doesn't dumb the game down a single bit unless you think that EVEMon is a crutch.

because new is bad.

Should have to hardcore check all accounts every 24 hours or write down when the next skill finishes training Shocked

Nah.


oh gawd i remember before the queue.. .. training first levels of low rank skills really blew loads.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#42 - 2012-08-04 03:45:34 UTC
Jax Bederen wrote:
This is getting far to easy, having all the information in game would kill Eve no doubt. I propose that the in game language is changed to Latin to maintain the games exclusivity.

The item names were already slightly de-lore-ized, should we reverse some of them?

I mean we did drop Trauma for Scourge...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#43 - 2012-08-04 04:34:21 UTC
I fail to see how this actually dumbs down the game. It doesn't change actual gameplay, all it does is show the possibilities what you can do, more of a guide to show what you can do. Its up to the players to determine their skillpath.
Rakael Kateloda
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-08-04 07:23:44 UTC
There is always invariably someone criticizing new features or anything new brought to the game, no matter what that is. Nothing new here, move along now, just another old disgruntled vet crying over progress.
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-08-04 07:27:38 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Natasha Mendel wrote:
Quote:
Ethnic Relations skill changed into Diplomatic Relations and theold effect is replaced by a new one that decreases cost to hire allies in war.


This is a good thing. I've never understood why corp CEOs are inherently racist.



Read the old lore and chronicles from the beginning of EVE. Empires don't exactly trust each other.


A capsuleer is not an empire. No Chribba, not even you.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!

Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#46 - 2012-08-04 08:53:22 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
The first thing people generally tell new players is to get evemon, eft, or similar 3rd party programs because the ingame stuff is so bad. It's pretty obvious from the csm minutes that CCP is trying to integrate a lot of those features in game.


This is precisely what I've been doing as EVEmon allows you to see what skills unlock at particular levels. This is a positive move on CCP's part to help players make better decisions about their skill training and thus use their time more effectively.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#47 - 2012-08-04 09:02:30 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Denidil wrote:
Yes, because putting essential information about the game into the in game UI is dumbing down eve. just like when they started having 0.0 show truesec.


Give me all your stuff OP.


I've played since 2007.

That info is not essential.



Good thing then this feature isnt aimed at you, its aimed at people who are just starting out and dont know what modules they can use when they train certain skills. Its simple, makes important information more accesible and helps out those players that need it the most.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-08-04 09:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Tippia wrote:
Roll
Unless the OP has never used EFT or EVEMon, and has never read any kind of EVE resource on the web, he should pipe down about people not being able to do research.

using these OOG resources is a hurdle many players fail to take and playing entirely without them makes EVE a very unpleasant affair.

Of course CCP does not want to lose these customers and will try to keep them around, holding their hand whenever necessary - but I am not so sure if I as a player don't prefer them quitting before I ever have to deal with them in game.

If they are too lazy or ignorant to discover & use the most essential OOG resources that are linked in basically every newbie guide then will they read their alliance forums?, will they sign up for jabber/irc?, will they use decent fittings?

isn't getting rid off these players before they can cause headaches for the rest of us a service to the eve community?


edit: even WoW has this metagame hurdle that weeds out many of the more terrible players (not terrible in terms of raw skill or intelligence but terrible in the regard that they are extremely lazy) - nothing in game tells you which addons to use, how to spend your talent points, what stat priority you should follow when selecting/reforging gear, what spell rotation/priority system to use, ....
Those players who do not pass that hurdle (open web-browser and search for answers/tools that give you answers) will have a very frustrating gaming experience (both due to the self-imposed difficulties and due to feedback from other players) and quit the game sooner rather than later.

.

Hammer Borne
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-08-06 17:23:43 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Hammer Borne wrote:
How could anyone be against more information in the interface related to skills and other non-combat intel? What the heck is wrong with you, OP?


If you look at the OP's posting history you'll see that its just a gimmick character used for writing cliche shitposts.


Ahh, well that explains it. I fell right into that trap.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#50 - 2012-08-06 17:28:29 UTC
Fun troll :)

Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
I don't see this as being new player friendly, I see it as treating new players like morons who can't do any research. Was showing info on a module you wanted to use to see what skills you needed too complicated?


Heaven forbid people be able to make informed decisions without having to reverse engineer the whole game.

All the information is there, how is it dumbing down the game to simply remove the convoluted method and third party applications previously required to access it?

That's like crying about Excel because you used to use paper ledgers.

Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
EDIT: Also we appear to be dumbing down corp management

Ethnic Relations skill changed into Diplomatic Relations and theold effect is replaced by a new one that decreases cost to hire allies in war.


Please. Ethnic relations was one of the most pointless skills in the game. Dumbing down? That's one of the smartest improvements yet to skills.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-08-06 17:29:48 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
'I had to crawl over broken glass and minefields in a blizzard to learn how Eve worked, all new and future players should be similarly punished and discouraged from playing'

OP is dumb. Don't be dumb, OP.



Actually, if that is what he said I would sort of agree with him. Most of EVE's charm is its complexity and its necessity for player deferred gratification. but I find myself thinking that these changes won't really amount to much change.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#52 - 2012-08-06 17:45:37 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp

Quote:

Skill Unlocks
See what modules and ships are unlocked by various skills.


http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63110/1/Skill_unlocks.png

I don't see this as being new player friendly, I see it as treating new players like morons who can't do any research. Was showing info on a module you wanted to use to see what skills you needed too complicated?


Really?

You can't find anything else to complain about - you picked this?

Go back into your room and don't come out until you have a real complaint.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#53 - 2012-08-06 18:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
War Kitten wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63110/1/Skill_unlocks.png

I don't see this as being new player friendly, I see it as treating new players like morons who can't do any research. Was showing info on a module you wanted to use to see what skills you needed too complicated?


Really?

You can't find anything else to complain about - you picked this?

Go back into your room and don't come out until you have a real complaint.

Unless I had thought ahead that I would want T2 rigs (which I never use now) I wouldn't have known to train Jury Rigging IV for them. Or random prereqs for whatever.

The "skill unlocks XXYY" and "skills by attribute" in EVEMon is very handy when working out remap sequences and the like. And the optimize attributes, that goes without saying.


Besides, isn't that guy some gimmick trolling account? I remember someone saying so.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Ghost Frog
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-08-06 18:21:58 UTC
ITT: troll posts something so stupid that even Desturned mocks him.

Dear OP, have you ever used EVEmon or EFT or PYFA or any of the industry/trading tools? Then you're a moron. Cause only weak-minded fools can't do in their head the complete training planning, industrial production chain planning for 200 different items at 3 different tiers, max number of market orders, research slots, and inventory management, plus the math related to all of them, for multiple accounts.

OMG. I just figured out why you're so resistant to change. You CAN do all those things in your head. You're Rain Man. Quick! Wapner's on!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#55 - 2012-08-06 18:24:12 UTC
Ghost Frog wrote:
ITT: troll posts something so stupid that even Desturned mocks him.

Dear OP, have you ever used EVEmon or EFT or PYFA or any of the industry/trading tools? Then you're a moron. Cause only weak-minded fools can't do in their head the complete training planning, industrial production chain planning for 200 different items at 3 different tiers, max number of market orders, research slots, and inventory management, plus the math related to all of them, for multiple accounts.

OMG. I just figured out why you're so resistant to change. You CAN do all those things in your head. You're Rain Man. Quick! Wapner's on!

EFT is great stuff. WFT warriors with their paper DPS tanked tricks using oversized ASBs, that's the life.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-08-06 18:28:36 UTC
Natasha Mendel wrote:
Quote:
Ethnic Relations skill changed into Diplomatic Relations and theold effect is replaced by a new one that decreases cost to hire allies in war.


This is a good thing. I've never understood why corp CEOs are inherently racist.



Me and my kinsmen started the game because we could stomp on space Minmatars... And burn ships in their back yards.

There is nothing wrong about hating the minmatars
Sotah Osodin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-08-07 09:07:05 UTC
Just another thread complaining about UI improvements. Nothing to see here. Move on.
marVLs
#58 - 2012-08-07 10:06:10 UTC
At least, awesome feature Smile
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#59 - 2012-08-07 10:15:06 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
EDIT: Also we appear to be dumbing down corp management


They should add Suduku puzzles on the opening screen of corp management, cant advance to next screen till you solve it.

That will sort out this softies who want GUI's to be easy.
Syphon Lodian
Fabled Enterprises
#60 - 2012-08-07 10:37:13 UTC
I bet OP tests everything on Singularity before he does it on TQ.

I bet one million Interstellar Kredits.

Singularity dumbs down the game and removes risk.