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Hun Reloaded entering FW on Amarr side
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Ki're Suahien
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-08-06 17:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ki're Suahien
Lilly Tebron wrote:


Do you recieve the ISK that is generated from the sale of the moon goo directly into your wallet? I would bet not, and I would bet the guy who does get that ISK would have a different story to tell.

The fact that you have a 1.5 BILLION isk carrier and you are willing to risk it ratting, suggests you have significantly more income per hour than the average lv4 mission runner, or even the average FW pilot. You don't see FW fleets of caps roaming for the lols. If FW is such an isk faucet as people suggest, why isn't the average FW pilot who has at least couple months of time in, running around in a cap?


There is no guy who does get that isk. That isk is put into alliance reimbursement, refueling, sov, and subsidy programs. Let's say TEST distributed all of it's moon income to all of it's players. Assuming that ONLY 5% of the entire 8,000 characters in TEST are real people and not alts, or are not inactive. That leaves us with 400 people. I'll give you a hint, the actual number is far higher, but for the sake of your little delusion, we'll work with it.

According to the TEST finances: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlnyNGc6PAOwdG1LaW5EQlJ6VTNNQXZiU3haQmtZemc&authkey=CKbl8ZwI&hl=en&authkey=CKbl8ZwI#gid=0

TEST makes ~4.3 billion isk a day from moon goo. Lets further assume, for your delusion, that none of that goes to paying for sov bills or POS fuel in the 252 solar systems TEST owns. Let's also ignore the fact that TEST loses about 330m a day since we're paying for all the new sov we've taken and are working on new infrastructure. That means that, if distributed, each of the "400" members gets about 100 *million* isk a day from the moon goo.

100m a DAY. I kept track of my plexing for the minmatar. Both my time, the LP I generated, and the isk that came out of it. Making 200m an HOUR was a low end estimate. With my three frigates that was 600m AN HOUR. So you're telling me that, again if, another assumption, you only had one account (that was afk 85% of the time) you would rather get your 100m a day instead of 1) being reimbursed for your ship and 2) plexing for half an hour to get the same?

I hope I've illustrated the point of the amount of wealth you can generate through FW plexing.


The hypothetical ratting thanatos (I can't fly one, sad sad), is an investment. And it's not "running around nullsec", it's most likely in a very safe deep nullsec system watching intel channels and local like a hawk. Ratting in one is relatively safe IF you are paying close attention, something you can completely ignore in FW plexes. On a good day, you can make 120m/hr in your thanatos, and that's pushing it. A lot of isk, to be sure. But still nothing compared to FW plexes. My buddy assigns fighters to 3 tengus, he can get upwards of 320m an hour. Compared to my 3 frigates making 600m/hr. The only difference is ratting is an instant source of isk, whereas FW you have to wait for your faction to get T5, and you can't dump all your items at once.

And you don't see caps running around, "for the lols" in nullsec either. If any pvp is done in them it's in organized groups; much like how dreads are used in faction warfare. You don't go run around in carrier gangs because...well I mean it's absurd. The damage isn't that great, you'd have to cyno into every system, you're extremely vulnerable without sub-cap support.


You can also take a look at goon finances here: https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CMng2u0B&hl=en&key=t4gil31Tka1BLmldBaMcugQ&hl=en&authkey=CMng2u0B#gid=5

They have more members (total and active) than TEST, and a lot more moons. Draw your own conclusions.
Amiar
The Fiction Factory
#62 - 2012-08-06 17:59:07 UTC
Welcome!

Now we just need some alliances on minmatar side so we can get some good fights Lol
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#63 - 2012-08-06 18:39:36 UTC
This is the famous Hun Reloaded? Fail Catalyst is Fail

I've put together many failed catalyst fits in my time, but I'm not part of an elite 0.0 pvp corporation.

At least they seem to be doing better than Nulli at FW. 47% efficiency so far in August.

Lilly Tebron
Unknown Entity.
#64 - 2012-08-06 18:55:24 UTC
Ki're Suahien wrote:
*snip*

There is no guy who does get that isk. That isk is put into alliance reimbursement, refueling, sov, and subsidy programs. Let's say TEST distributed all of it's moon income to all of it's players. Assuming that ONLY 5% of the entire 8,000 characters in TEST are real people and not alts, or are not inactive. That leaves us with 400 people. I'll give you a hint, the actual number is far higher, but for the sake of your little delusion, we'll work with it.

According to the TEST finances: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlnyNGc6PAOwdG1LaW5EQlJ6VTNNQXZiU3haQmtZemc&authkey=CKbl8ZwI&hl=en&authkey=CKbl8ZwI#gid=0

TEST makes ~4.3 billion isk a day from moon goo. Lets further assume, for your delusion, that none of that goes to paying for sov bills or POS fuel in the 252 solar systems TEST owns. Let's also ignore the fact that TEST loses about 330m a day since we're paying for all the new sov we've taken and are working on new infrastructure. That means that, if distributed, each of the "400" members gets about 100 *million* isk a day from the moon goo.

100m a DAY. I kept track of my plexing for the minmatar. Both my time, the LP I generated, and the isk that came out of it. Making 200m an HOUR was a low end estimate. With my three frigates that was 600m AN HOUR. So you're telling me that, again if, another assumption, you only had one account (that was afk 85% of the time) you would rather get your 100m a day instead of 1) being reimbursed for your ship and 2) plexing for half an hour to get the same?

I hope I've illustrated the point of the amount of wealth you can generate through FW plexing.


The hypothetical ratting thanatos (I can't fly one, sad sad), is an investment. And it's not "running around nullsec", it's most likely in a very safe deep nullsec system watching intel channels and local like a hawk. Ratting in one is relatively safe IF you are paying close attention, something you can completely ignore in FW plexes. On a good day, you can make 120m/hr in your thanatos, and that's pushing it. A lot of isk, to be sure. But still nothing compared to FW plexes. My buddy assigns fighters to 3 tengus, he can get upwards of 320m an hour. Compared to my 3 frigates making 600m/hr. The only difference is ratting is an instant source of isk, whereas FW you have to wait for your faction to get T5, and you can't dump all your items at once.

And you don't see caps running around, "for the lols" in nullsec either. If any pvp is done in them it's in organized groups; much like how dreads are used in faction warfare. You don't go run around in carrier gangs because...well I mean it's absurd. The damage isn't that great, you'd have to cyno into every system, you're extremely vulnerable without sub-cap support.


You can also take a look at goon finances here: https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CMng2u0B&hl=en&key=t4gil31Tka1BLmldBaMcugQ&hl=en&authkey=CMng2u0B#gid=5

They have more members (total and active) than TEST, and a lot more moons. Draw your own conclusions.


OK First, I would ask that you refrain from being belligerent. I am attempting to have an intelligent conversation with you, and it's rather difficult to do so to someone insulting you simply for taking a different stance. I have been nothing but cordial towards you, I only ask you do the same.

Second, I will concede that it should not be easy mode for ab fit tank only frigates to complete plexes in FW. I never suggested otherwise. But stating that you can plex in an afk frigate and that FW is broken, in my opinion, are two totally different balls of wax. It is an aspect of FW that could be improved, and would make things more interesting in low sec as you would see more than the swarms of incursus' and merlins roaming around.

Third, I can accept and agree that it's better to funnel that isk into a corp reimbursement program. Share the wealth and all, it's a great idea and if your alliance legitimately pulls it off, more power to you! But, if you are reimbursed for your ships, why are you farming money to begin with? What is it that you desire that the alliance ship reimbursement program does not provide? Is this an internet spaceship game for you, or rather an alternate reality commodities exchange game for you? Very few FW corps or alliances provide a ship reimbursement program, they expect you to be self-sufficient, and that means being able to pay for your losses which can get expensive for one person to handle.

Finally I think it unwise to feel like the Minnie/Amarr warzone is a reflection on FW as a whole. I think the Caldari/Gallente warzone is a better representation of what CCP intended. Mostly sitting at T1-T3 and the every so often push into T4 to cash out some nice profit before the otherside pushes you back into T3. I would bet that with the influx of Nulli and HUN into FW for Amarr will create all kinds of chaos when they try to push T5, and sometime after that the battlezone will start to look more like the Caldari/Gallente zone.

I'll stick to my original argument, with an addendum from you for now:

Please stop referring to FW as broken. *addendum* Some aspects such as afk plexing majors in t1 frigs need work *end addendum* but the argument that FW is broken as a whole seems more an attack on a different way to play the game rather than a legitimate discussion on if the entire game feature is a detriment to the game. (i.e. broken) FW should be a riskier alternative to High Sec Mission Running that yields larger rewards to offset the increased risk to ship and crew and should foster individual profitability for the individual capsuleer, and not feed the coffers of large alliances.
Dan Carter Murray
#65 - 2012-08-06 19:05:44 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
How big is Hun Reloaded?


The correct answer is "who gives a sh*t"

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Ki're Suahien
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-08-06 19:26:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ki're Suahien
I started writing out another big long post explaining why you're wrong, but here's this:

It IS broken. There are two, "games" in faction warfare. One game is the small gang roams, the solo pvp. The target rich environment with lots of people to fight and to fight with. This game is not broken; it's probably one of the best places in EVE to go pvp, probably one of the most fun too.

The second game is warzone sovreignty. THIS is what is broken. Warzone sovreignty is not tied to activity, it's not tied to pvp, it's not tied to victories or losses. It's tied purely, exclusively, to how many afk plexers you have currently doing their thing in your militia. And that is purely, exclusively tied to which militia can make the most isk/hr. This can only occur because of how stupidly easy it is to afk plex, and how ridiculous the rewards are for doing it. It has lead to more wonderful features in FW such as plexing systems to vulnerable, not flipping them, and then plexing them some more. And just because the Caldari/Gallente warzone hasn't seen this yet, does not mean that it can't change. You play under the same mechanics and should share the same concerns.

If you consider them separate altogether, and only play game number one, fine, it's not broken for you. However, I maintain they are intertwined, and because one is broken, it hurts the other. The irony is, if people would just accept how ridiculous the current sov system is and push for CCP to do something about it, their game play would be so much better.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#67 - 2012-08-06 19:36:51 UTC
Ki're Suahien wrote:
You're making more money than I do. Obviously the game is broken.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-08-06 19:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Zicon Shak'ra
BringerMC wrote:
Ki're Suahien wrote:
BringerMC wrote:


For those that actually know EVE economics FW is an ISK sink. The only ISK Faucet is ISK you recieve from missions which is very little.

FW is an ISK sink as LP is not ISK. To turn it into items most the time you must spend ISK which is a sink. The items you sell are not an ISK faucet as that money already exists in game and is just coming from other players buying your goods which then creates another ISK sink due to taxes and broker fees.

So I see no activity in FW creating ISK besides the few million you get from FW missions.

So obviously 0.0 alliances don't know everything.


/facepalm

You based an entire argument on semantics purely to attempt to discredit someone from a group you don't like? Sweet.

I think it's pretty obvious that the term, "isk faucet" does not literally mean, in generic use, a source from which raw isk is generated, but rather a source from which wealth in general is generated.


I have no issue with Nulli. Just simply stating facts based off his comparison.

No he didnt use it in a generic term. He compared it to incursions which were an ISK Faucet as it created ISK that was not in the game before. Had he just called it an ISK faucet without that comparison I could buy your story that it was use generically.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xzrtONJ6QVo/TsK-9rBqWTI/AAAAAAAAALE/0kwxMCVWXAA/s1600/Double+facepalm.jpg

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
Ki're Suahien
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-08-06 19:53:43 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
quasi-Ki're Suahien wrote:
You're making more money than I do. Obviously the game is broken.



Except I'm making as much as you are. Unless you have 4 merlins plexing Shocked

On topic, this is exactly the mentality that is just going to continue to plague FW. I mean, it's whatever. I'll continue to abuse it as much as everyone else does.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#70 - 2012-08-06 22:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
BringerMC wrote:
Cellethen wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
lol Nulli had to call in help to deal with FW scrubs.


You sound mad. Sorry that a couple of friendly 0.0 alliances want to exploit this isk faucet before CCP tightens it up like they did Incursions.

HUN bros best bros, sell me a cambion? <3



For those that actually know EVE economics FW is an ISK sink.
.


Actually the Tiered FW system is reducing the LP store ISK sink! I suspect if it continues next February the LP store ISK sink will be reduced from 6 trillion the previous year to ~4 trillion in 2013. The only new LP store demand ( by NULLI interestingly ) created appears to be for Navy 'Geddons & that is pure LP no ISK sunk at all. Tier 4 reduces the ISK sink by 50% & Tier 5 by 75% sure it'll be nice having cheaper faction items but in the longrun we'll have more ISK in the economy.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#71 - 2012-08-06 22:03:23 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
BringerMC wrote:
Cellethen wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
lol Nulli had to call in help to deal with FW scrubs.


You sound mad. Sorry that a couple of friendly 0.0 alliances want to exploit this isk faucet before CCP tightens it up like they did Incursions.

HUN bros best bros, sell me a cambion? <3



For those that actually know EVE economics FW is an ISK sink.
.


Actually the Tiered FW system is reducing the LP store ISK sink! I suspect if it continues next February the LP store ISK sink will be reduced from 6 trillion to ~4 trillion. The only new LP store demand ( by NULLI interestingly ) created appears to be for Navy 'Geddons & that is pure LP no ISK sunk at all. Tier 4 reduces the ISK sink by 50% & Tier 5 by 75% sure it'll be nice having cheaper faction items but in the longrun we'll have more ISK in the economy.


Cheaper prices also mean people will buy more.

Wether the ISK sink is "reduced" or not, one thing FW is not doing is adding ISK to the game - at least not in any appreciable amount.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-08-07 01:35:59 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Hrett wrote:
These people jumped on me for using these terms 'incorrectly' too. Space lawyers and space economists are abundant in FW. They get angry if you imply people in FW get rich.

99% sure these people fly gunless frigate alts to farm plexes and this definitional nonsense is what they use to rationalize it. Don't know why the just can't admit they are farming a broken system.

We all are.


Well first of all, nobody "jumped on you"; you were simply corrected for misusing/misunderstanding the term "ISK Faucet". Instead of being thankful for the educational experience, you took it personally and got defensive over it, trying to argue your way out of it and doing your darned best not to learn something new.

Judging from the language you're using here ("these people jumped on me"), you obviously felt as though you were being attacked, even though that was not the case. My advise to you is to not take things on Internet Spaceship Forums so seriously. It' bad for your health (high blood pressure and digestive troubles can be linked to confrontational mindsets).


Yet you later had posts cleansed for being a troll, which is what you are doing now. Shush.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Pulgy
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-08-07 01:47:02 UTC
wow another alliance decides to give FW a shot and all the "elite" faction warriors come out of the woods mocking them Roll
No range? No problem!   Join the Church of the Holy Blaster™ . A Hybrid religion.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#74 - 2012-08-07 03:15:22 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Hrett wrote:
These people jumped on me for using these terms 'incorrectly' too. Space lawyers and space economists are abundant in FW. They get angry if you imply people in FW get rich.

99% sure these people fly gunless frigate alts to farm plexes and this definitional nonsense is what they use to rationalize it. Don't know why the just can't admit they are farming a broken system.

We all are.


Well first of all, nobody "jumped on you"; you were simply corrected for misusing/misunderstanding the term "ISK Faucet". Instead of being thankful for the educational experience, you took it personally and got defensive over it, trying to argue your way out of it and doing your darned best not to learn something new.

Judging from the language you're using here ("these people jumped on me"), you obviously felt as though you were being attacked, even though that was not the case. My advise to you is to not take things on Internet Spaceship Forums so seriously. It' bad for your health (high blood pressure and digestive troubles can be linked to confrontational mindsets).


Yet you later had posts cleansed for being a troll, which is what you are doing now. Shush.


Just because the things I said upset you and made you feel bad, doesn't mean I'm "trolling". Pointing out that you incorrectly used the term "ISK Faucet" is also not trolling. Also none of my posts regarding the subject we removed.

So yeah.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
BringerMC
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-08-07 04:54:06 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
BringerMC wrote:
Cellethen wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
lol Nulli had to call in help to deal with FW scrubs.


You sound mad. Sorry that a couple of friendly 0.0 alliances want to exploit this isk faucet before CCP tightens it up like they did Incursions.

HUN bros best bros, sell me a cambion? <3



For those that actually know EVE economics FW is an ISK sink.
.


Actually the Tiered FW system is reducing the LP store ISK sink! I suspect if it continues next February the LP store ISK sink will be reduced from 6 trillion the previous year to ~4 trillion in 2013. The only new LP store demand ( by NULLI interestingly ) created appears to be for Navy 'Geddons & that is pure LP no ISK sunk at all. Tier 4 reduces the ISK sink by 50% & Tier 5 by 75% sure it'll be nice having cheaper faction items but in the longrun we'll have more ISK in the economy.


Where are you getting this extra ISK in the economy? Navy Geddons still create a sink. Someone produces the Geddon which is then sold. ISK goes away in this process due to taxes and broker fees. The Geddon is then turned into a Navy Geddon in the LP store which again no ISK is created. That Navy Geddon is then sold on the market which again creates an ISK sink through broker fees and taxes. The pilot that is selling the Navy Geddon gets ISK from another pilot. That ISK is not created it is ISK that exists in the game and is passed from one pilot to another. Hence it is wealth redistribution.

If the Navy Geddon is used for personal use then again no ISK is created and it gets destroyed in combat at a later date.

I am some how missing where people get that the FW LP Store creates ISK. The most it does when it comes to the the selling of items generated in the LP store is the redistribution of wealth hence no new ISK in the economy.

This is also controlled in the end by supply and demand. If the demand for FW products decreases the amount of wealth redistribution also decreases.

Join **The Ghost Division **Today! Because Pac-man ghosts driving Panzers can't be beat.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#76 - 2012-08-07 05:49:19 UTC
Actually, the isk sink is the same in terms of isk/lp whether you're at Tier 1 or Tier 5 because both scale with the FW Tier payouts. If there is more lp being turned in, then necessarily there is more isk removed from the economy. Has there been more LP turned in since the patch? The answer is probably yes.
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#77 - 2012-08-07 05:50:17 UTC
BringerMC wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
BringerMC wrote:
Cellethen wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
lol Nulli had to call in help to deal with FW scrubs.


You sound mad. Sorry that a couple of friendly 0.0 alliances want to exploit this isk faucet before CCP tightens it up like they did Incursions.

HUN bros best bros, sell me a cambion? <3



For those that actually know EVE economics FW is an ISK sink.
.


Actually the Tiered FW system is reducing the LP store ISK sink! I suspect if it continues next February the LP store ISK sink will be reduced from 6 trillion the previous year to ~4 trillion in 2013. The only new LP store demand ( by NULLI interestingly ) created appears to be for Navy 'Geddons & that is pure LP no ISK sunk at all. Tier 4 reduces the ISK sink by 50% & Tier 5 by 75% sure it'll be nice having cheaper faction items but in the longrun we'll have more ISK in the economy.


Where are you getting this extra ISK in the economy? Navy Geddons still create a sink. Someone produces the Geddon which is then sold. ISK goes away in this process due to taxes and broker fees. The Geddon is then turned into a Navy Geddon in the LP store which again no ISK is created. That Navy Geddon is then sold on the market which again creates an ISK sink through broker fees and taxes. The pilot that is selling the Navy Geddon gets ISK from another pilot. That ISK is not created it is ISK that exists in the game and is passed from one pilot to another. Hence it is wealth redistribution.

If the Navy Geddon is used for personal use then again no ISK is created and it gets destroyed in combat at a later date.

I am some how missing where people get that the FW LP Store creates ISK. The most it does when it comes to the the selling of items generated in the LP store is the redistribution of wealth hence no new ISK in the economy.

This is also controlled in the end by supply and demand. If the demand for FW products decreases the amount of wealth redistribution also decreases.


Out of curiousity's sake, are the insurance payouts the same for faction ships as they are their T1 counterparts?

The moar you cry the less you pee
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#78 - 2012-08-07 06:56:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
X Gallentius wrote:
Actually, the isk sink is the same in terms of isk/lp whether you're at Tier 1 or Tier 5 because both scale with the FW Tier payouts. If there is more lp being turned in, then necessarily there is more isk removed from the economy. Has there been more LP turned in since the patch? The answer is probably yes.




The ISK per item at tiers 4&5 is redeuced 50% and 75% respectively. You probably will get a demand jump from these items if they are offered significantly cheaper but no where near the ISK reductions but I'm willing to bet no more then 10% ( and probably much less IMHO). The ISK per LP scaling arguement is silly... I suppose you'd argue if the ISK&LP reductions were equally reduced 99.99% (or greater) you'd still see the same results? Roll


BringerMC wrote:

Where are you getting this extra ISK in the economy? Navy Geddons still create a sink. Someone produces the Geddon which is then sold. ISK goes away in this process due to taxes and broker fees.


You are correct that no ISK is being created but the ~6 trillion ISK sink per month is being reduced. The broker/tax sinks are a paltry 1.5-3% compared to the 50% and 75% ISK sink reductions. & FYI ship destruction in no way is an ISK sink ( it is a mineral sink though)
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-08-07 07:37:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Xuixien wrote:


Just because the things I said upset you and made you feel bad, doesn't mean I'm "trolling". Pointing out that you incorrectly used the term "ISK Faucet" is also not trolling. Also none of my posts regarding the subject we removed.

So yeah.


You are trolling to try to hide the fact that you said (unsolicited) that FW wasn't a faucet and then linked an article to prove it wasn't a faucet, but that article said that mission isk payouts (like FW missions!) are a faucet. Indeed, FW has elements that are both faucets and sinks (which, it turns out, is what I said). It's ok. Breathe deep. Let it go.

Now, even though there has been drastic thread drift here, and whether we label it a faucet, sink, drain, or torrent is kinda irrelevant to whether the current plexing system is broken, it seems this thread is now about eve economics...

So to continue in that (irrevelant but fascinating) conversation. Here is one possible read of the situation. The LP that is created by FW is removed by the FW store, so that is a net wash, regardless of the tier it is spent on. That leaves the mission isk payments and NPC drop plex loot/tags (those would be faucets under the lingo, right?) as a faucet and the LP store isk costs as a sink. I am simply not inclined or capable of doing that analysis, but I would guess that those isk payments/costs are pretty close to a wash too. So, with those basic (but perhaps incorrect) assumptions, I would say perhaps FW is a net wash (or close to it) internally that creates a (massive) transfer of wealth from rich people to us FW types.

Edit: And I am pretty sure that insurance payouts on faction ships is bad, so they are rarely insured. That takes the insurance issue out (I think).
So, if that analysis is right, or at least not completely wrong, then that begs two questions:

1. Is the transfer of wealth too easy because of the gunless t1 frigate exploit/mechanic? (I would say yes); and
2. Has CCP intentionally made it so easy to give us unwashed masses the economic means to to transfer wealth away from the rich to balance out the other 'too easy' moon goo mechanic that has been going on for years? (I would say perhaps.)

I don't mind new 'transfer of wealth' mechanics like FW to allow us to get space rich without having to become a null-seccing F1er that suckles at the moon-goo teat.* I think FW is good. My only real complaint about the whole thing is I don't think gunless T1 frigs should be a viable option for offensive plexing.

I think the whole complaint about moon-goo is that it is too passive. Having a t1 frig afk-spinning buttons in a backwater system while you are watching Seinfeld reruns while stripped to the waist eating a block of cheese the size of a car battery - well that seems pretty passive to me too. I personally think it needs a fixin.


* just a friendly barb at 0.0. No offense intended. ;)

Probably lots of typos, but I ain't fixin them.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
jjohnpaul xvii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-08-07 08:41:25 UTC
Ki're Suahien wrote:
I started writing out another big long post explaining why you're wrong, but here's this:

It IS broken. There are two, "games" in faction warfare. One game is the small gang roams, the solo pvp. The target rich environment with lots of people to fight and to fight with. This game is not broken; it's probably one of the best places in EVE to go pvp, probably one of the most fun too.




This.

Welcome to FW Hun Reloaded, look forward to seeing you in space soon.

o7