Science & Industry

So now that the minutes have been released I'm excited to see what everyone thinks about some of the exciting changes planned for folks that build stuff and mine for a living?

For example, I'm totally excited about the ideas shared about making the whole building process "smarter" with automated multi-step building chains.

Also beyond excited about ring mining (although I wish it was sooner!) and composite rocks and "active" mining experiences!

Looking forward to some awesome discussions now that CCP has promised our segment of Eve some long overdue love!

What do you think Eve pilots!

Issler

is active mining going to be engaging and fun, or boring, repetitive and going to make me want to kill myself rather than carry on mining? and what kind of reward will i get for having to put in more effort?

also link to said minutes?

thanks.

interesting to read that low sec mining is up since the ores are least lucrative and the space is most dangerous [then again this isn't true if nobody else is there, and for such a rise in mining in low sec it must suggest that it's empty as a cheerleader's head and that in itself is an issue]

Go to the mining and industry session (you can find it in the TOC).

Basically for building CCP is thinking about making it so you can automatically created automated serialized jobs, imagine building a T2 or Capital ship from the top down automatically, if you had the material and all the BPs you would start a "build a freighter" job and all the parts you needed would automatically get built.

For mining, ring mining is going to be something like fishing trawlers in the belt and at some point rocks will contain more types of ores in a single composite rock and some of those materials could eventually be moon minerals.

Pretty exciting stuff!

Issler

Actually, industry in 0.0 was discussed as part of the "next level of experience" in industry thing. No one has as much "concrete" ideas to suggest but the folks in Iceland did suggest to CCP that there needed to be some next level goal in industry and that null could be part of that. Sorry if that wasn't as clear as it should have been in the minutes. For an example dramatically increasing the number of manufacturing slots in null and making it cheaper to build out in a POS came up.

I think in general CSM 7 and CCP agreed that there needs to some attention given to industry and mining in null.

Issler

ALERT: wall of text coming. Hey you linked me a 165 pages document, what the hell did you expect now?

it seems you discussed about a lot of stuff, probably even too much. Hard to say if there is/will be a plan out of those discussion or it was just an informative meeting. The subject is complicated but that's why probably touching just the main aspects and adding few major changes would be better than "revolutioning" the whole thing.

According on what you've been discussing I see these are the main aspects:

- the manufacturing UI which also mean the logic behind it. Changing the production pipeline could be cool and smart as dumb and dull, depends on "details". I personally don't like too much the idea of the "build me a titan" button because I see that the super-specialized jobs should be at least as complicated as they are while the routine ones should be automatized.

- As suggested by some of you/CCP, what about introducing some skills and make manufacturing more a skill based activity than it is nowadays? For instance, what about a skill that lets you run multiple jobs from the same BPO on several lines (say max 5 with *new*skill*here* at lvl 5). Like : I need to build 10.000 of these components for this other *bigger*component* that I must use to produce that *uber*hull*. Ok, let's make the basic jobs faster and use 5 production lines instead on 1 reducing the time needed of a good 80% for the _low end components_
Of course you should increase the NPC lines of a 5x factor (well maybe only 2-3x could be enough since the lines would be used for a shorter time)

- the fact that a 2 weeks old player should be able to do everything in the game just doesn't fit with EVE online. Sorry CCP.

- Manufacturing direct and/or indirect costs should be related to the sec status of the system you build your stuff in while NPC lines should be just the same everywhere, meaning that there should be no advantage building stuff in an NPC station in 0.0 rather than in 1.0, while instead people producing in their POS or in their own stations should have some pretty huge bonus methinks! It makes no sense that I spend a huge pile of money and time from hundreds people to have just the same standard I'd have borrowing the first line available anywhere, also because all I built is very much destroyable!

- ring mining and mining: do what you want but please stop that foolishness of aim&shoot at the **** roid or moon! C'mon are you trying to make an elephant look like a monkey? And who's the ridicule one here?
When I go out mining for _hours_ the last thing I need is to aim and shoot at any single rock or to be penalized if I don't want to do it!! If you're trying to attract every single moron in a belt because "it's cool" just let roids spam killmails and you'll see the masses flowing.
So here I declare I want mining to be a boring activity, thanks.

- I see CCP Soundwave really wants to attract people in the bush..... oops sorry in the belts

now, I have nothing against abusing your brain in any possible way, but well...... use some good stuff at least. Do you want to help pro miners? Add a "stealth mining" module _only for barges only if in a belt_ or a "stealth mining link" for orcas (affecting only barges so that an orca sitting in a pos can't hide an entire fleet of capitals just pushing F1) but do not touch local never ever!

- in any case

..... winter 2013 like january or december? It's just an 11 months difference. ok ok don't answer me, I know it will be february 2014 lol


TL.DR: just harassing the CSM. Nothing a normal user should be reading

Every week I need to install the same 100 jobs on a pos (ok, there's a small variation, but you get the point). I don't see how these changes will help me?
Entering a large number won't work because I use the same type of blueprints and would therefor risk a very long job and a short job. And using the final blueprint isn't an option as that one needs to be in production as much as possible and is in a different location.

Instaling the final blueprint is going to be problematic when the part production is done by different chars or should be done ahead in time? Especially when done at different location or pos.

Please get a (deliver and) reinstall button so you can restart a completed job which is usable on finished jobs ( maybe even copy for running jobs?) If materials are missing open the quote window, if the exact blueprint ( by itemid) can't be found select one with same pe and material requirements (not just me level, me levels above perfect me have the same requirements after all. If no match, provide a list with same type blueprints.


Edit: while taking about jobs, can the server please log jobs that have started consuming materials so it can be detected when the process stops due to timeout or error out due to unforeseen circumstances? I lost up to 400 mil worth of materials that way 1.5 years ago. Senior GM couldn't find a trace from the job and QA Department refuses to look at it because they can't reproduce it.

I am not impressed by people who didn't even know that Sanshas don't camp gates in hisec (and previously weren't aware that you can do mining in w-space) want an activity that they do not participate in to be “more interesting”. Good luck with that.

If you don't find mining interesting, don't do it (and certainly don't go thinking you know how to “improve” it because you're some hot shot nullsec alliance celebrity).

Here are some suggestions which take into account the desires of the players who actually mine. Ring mining would be great if it follows the explore / expose / exploit / extract design. Current mining would benefit greatly from anonymous asteroids containing mixtures of ore which require smart miners to think about which crystals to use on which rocks.

Making mining “more interesting” from a pew-pew pilot's perspective will ruin the activity of mining. The smallest unit of time a combat pilot works with is 1 second (the limit of resolution of the simulation engine). The smallest unit of time a miner works with is around 15 seconds (the time it takes a Hulk to get into warp from a standing start). Miner conversations last hours, with the speed of the conversation being measured in comments per hour. We are the Ents of EVE, and we don't need foolish hobbits and orcs telling us that life would be more interesting if only we'd pick up a sword and shield and start smashing stuff.

Bah … I got into ranting didn't I?

hey you CCP gods, no more brainstorming about mining needed, just do this plz ^

I would also second what Fuzzysteve says in the comment, so leaving Veldspar and Scordite in the actual belts and maybe not to change anything in 0.9 and 1.0 sec. Nice reading and very constructive ideas ;)

I just want to say thank you for your efforts in the CSM on behalf of those who like to create rather than destroy.