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Planned lowsec sentry "fix" - you guys serious?

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Spurty
#841 - 2012-08-23 17:57:54 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
No-one has ever tried to deny that the majority of fights take place on gates or stations, in fact its a primary reason why most of us think this idea was moronic.

What people are trying to hammer through is the fact that the impression of lowsec as a gate camp infested deathhole is completely wrong and making gameplay changes based on that wrong impression is dumb.


It's almost as *IF* someone was trying to send you a message that, it's probably not 'moronic' to sure up the very limited DPS low sec gate guns do and 'move along' over to Null sec for your jollies.


IFFFFFFFfffFFffffffff (insert rage face of trying to 'hammer a square peg into round hole' message home)

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Tyraeil Starblade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#842 - 2012-08-23 18:19:43 UTC
They still need to do something about low sec pirates who just sit on gate with smartbombs and blow up shuttles and pods and poorly fit frigates that land on gate. It's probably the lamest way to get kills. I think having tougher sentry guns that force you off the gate isn't such a bad thing...

Fight at celestials instead.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#843 - 2012-08-23 18:23:42 UTC
Tyraeil Starblade wrote:
They still need to do something about low sec pirates who just sit on gate with smartbombs and blow up shuttles and pods and poorly fit frigates that land on gate. It's probably the lamest way to get kills. I think having tougher sentry guns that force you off the gate isn't such a bad thing...

Fight at celestials instead.


getting kills from people who don't want to fight an opposing force...UNHEARD OFShocked

also, its cute that you think these changes would remove smartbombers.

I has all the eve inactivity
drunk asfck
Doomheim
#844 - 2012-08-23 18:39:06 UTC
Tyraeil Starblade wrote:
They still need to do something about low sec pirates who just sit on gate with smartbombs and blow up shuttles and pods and poorly fit frigates that land on gate. It's probably the lamest way to get kills. I think having tougher sentry guns that force you off the gate isn't such a bad thing...

Fight at celestials instead.



Why?

Gate camps have been around in lo-sec for ever but now eve is sooo dumbed down and full whineing pansys they want ccp to change things to suit them

rember the old days were you actualy learnt from trying and not from crying

can camp 0.0 choke points entry point

can camp empire hubs and choke points

omfg theres a camp in lo-sec we must nurf these pesky piwates

carbares have all the tools needed to make life in lo-sec if they use they fcking heads jf's / covops / covop haulers / recons / t3's

there are thousends of players and hundreds corps that this will efect in a negative way the players/corps that actualy put time effort into liveing in lo-sec and not handed to them on plate
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#845 - 2012-08-23 18:46:26 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Singoth wrote:
Hello,

Gatecamping is wrong, annoying, prevents newbies from getting to low/null and make a living there. I think that's the main reason why.

If you want to fight, start an actual roam, instead of camping gates 23,5/7.
And jump to an other gate from time to time.

This will not impede with normal fighting if you have some actual PvP experience. Gatecamping requires no experience, just patience, and we all know that waiting for something to happen without much risk involved is much like mining, which is carebearing, which is EVIL AND MUST BE EXTERMINATED AT ALL COSTS.


So sadly even though there seemed to be support for this change by some players and at a couple of CSM for some variation of the idea only one side of the feedback seems to have been heard. Sad.

Issler



I asked once before so I'll reword it and see if you have an answer this time.

Once past the gate what would carebears be able to do in space that wouldn't result in them being hunted down and killed? How would any change to sentries increase interest in low sec considering the answer to the first question is nothing?


Well, depends on the care bear. For example if they can get into low sec they can consider trade at stations, explore the belts, search for anomolies or even consider missions that require low sec. Don't get me wrong, this alone is not the "get the bear into low sec fix" but reducing gate camps will have to part of the solution once other carrots are put into low sec to make risk/reward make sense in this under utilized portion of space.


Issler


Ok, considering being killed at gate camps is the main reason why bears don't explore belts, search for anomolies or consider the better paying missions what changes to those would be needed when they get killed doing that too?

Trade at stations? Doesn't a neutral trader get the FW deals on taxes or something for trading in low sec already?
Sunrise Aigele
Pemberley Enterprises
#846 - 2012-08-23 18:58:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunrise Aigele
Roime wrote:
Solution to this is to fix NPC corps. Until CCP isolates and removes the root and cause of 99% of carebear contamination, which is the evernoob missioners destroying EVE from new players with bad advice and blatant lies, we players need to find ways to educate new players before they are ruined.


Anyone who is reading this and nodding, hear me: When I was a brand newbie, I talked to one of those vets hanging out in Hedion University. But I got lucky. He was a (semi-)retired pirate. He taught me all kinds of useful things about transversal, and aligning, and about EVE generally. He told me straight truth, no fear mongering. He did call gate camping "the lowest form of PVP," though.

Think of the n00bs. If it's a slow day in your home system, park an NPC corp alt in one of that corp's starter systems and talk to n00bs yourself. Nothing says that they have to listen only to high sec mission bears, or even that they want to!

[edit: I may do mostly high sec missioning so far, but because it's helping the corp I'm in and its new players with ISK and standings, not because ZOMG CAMPERS IN LOWSEC. I've been there, several systems deep. If you're careful, it's no more dangerous than the high sec systems around Jita. Probably less so.]
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#847 - 2012-08-23 19:11:08 UTC
Tyraeil Starblade wrote:
They still need to do something about low sec pirates who just sit on gate with smartbombs and blow up shuttles and pods and poorly fit frigates that land on gate. It's probably the lamest way to get kills. I think having tougher sentry guns that force you off the gate isn't such a bad thing...

Fight at celestials instead.



Sigh, here we go again.

Smartbombers dont sit on the gate all the time, they use alt scouts and only warp to the gate when a target approaches, ramping up the sentries wont do anything to stop them.

You'll get no arguement from me that it isnt exactly brain science level pvp but it helps to actually know something about what you complain about.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
drunk asfck
Doomheim
#848 - 2012-08-23 19:23:11 UTC
If ccp realy want more carebares in losec they should buff losec not nurff thousends players game style

take ice belts outa high sec

make it so can only get nox or some other min from losec

ad comets or some other random spawning item gas or some crap for industrials to mine

increase high end gravs and plexes that need b probed even a carebare can learn dscan to look for probs

increase bs rats and new faction losec missions

there is so much ccp could do to increase crybare activaty in losec just gota use they heads and not screw one player baee to please another

its sandbox or so they advatise it as one i call bullsh1t
Ieldan
Tea Tactics
#849 - 2012-08-23 19:29:16 UTC
So the age of tactic of been able to tank sentries to get kills is now been removed. This is fine pirates will still pirate and noobs will still be rounded up and killed as per usual.

The fact is CCP is going the wrong way around trying to get more people into Low Sec. Insted of making it seem safer by ramping up the gate gun damage the fact is nothing has changed. There is still no juicy carrot in Low Sec to entice more people there,

Agents have all ben given the same rating, so there no high lever agents any more so than there is in High Sec and minerals arnt that much better, any industrialist knows to mine more low end sell it off and buy the high end with that.

Low sec and whats there need to be improved not the gate guns or stations or the pretty background graphic, the actual content of the systems.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#850 - 2012-08-23 20:12:53 UTC
Ieldan wrote:


There is still no juicy carrot in Low Sec to entice more people there,

Agents have all ben given the same rating, so there no high lever agents any more

so than there is in High Sec and minerals arnt that much better, any industrialist knows to mine more low end sell it off and buy the high end with that.



#1) Come away from a string of 5 to 8/10s with a cargobay full of high end faction mods plus pirate ship BPCs and tell me the carrot isn't there.

#2) Level 5 agents are the next step?...add more of those?

#3) You assume low sec dwellers don't mine or employ miners for the goodness in those belts.

The problem with carebears being interested in those carrots is they have areas where they can play a mindless grinding game. In high sec they are masters of the heavens; in low sec they are prey and most bears can't handle that. No change will ever bring them to the "pvp zones" where your IQ and personality are more important than what you fly or how much bling you have.

Low sec is not dead as many would like to think. It's just inaccessible to those with no desire to play a game while being a good sport about loosing and learning. If they added things for bears to do in low they would start with an instant gratification activity followed up by a risk adverse mechanic to keep them felling like they are Capt. Kirk and finished off with a little bell to tell them they won something against the ebil pirats.
Ieldan
Tea Tactics
#851 - 2012-08-23 21:00:30 UTC
So like i said the carrot isnt there, most players in high sec running endless missions and doing incursions with no threat have an endless wallet, where there need to go out and run a 7/10 for phantasm bpc doesn't exist cos they have the money to purchase these goods on the market without any risk what so ever.

CCP has made it to easy to make money in high sec for the people who want to grind missions 23/7 salvage, LP whord and sell. And you cant give the players in high sec a hard time about it cos thats what there allowed to do and it what they will do unless you take certain aspects out of high sec and only impliment them in low sec.

Care bears are comfy and they dont want to move into dangerous space, and why would they? they have no need for motherships or pimped out pvp ships cos they dont care, and if they did care about all them 10/10 plexs, bhalgorn bpc's and fighting at gate they would already be in low sec and null sec.

Sandbox, people can make what decision when they want and like, regardless of what the Devs or anyother party want them to do.

Low sec will always be full of pirates, 0.0 full of alliances and high sec full of wallet rich lvl4 running spotty kids and girls.
Spurty
#852 - 2012-08-23 21:15:45 UTC
Er sounds like someone needs to shake the sand up a bit with all that stagnation ... Oh wait...

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#853 - 2012-08-23 22:05:37 UTC
Personnaly I feel all the need to fix gate camping is have people come in over the entire grid instead of within 15 kms of the gate.
This would eliminate the camping aspect as then suddenly you have to move places or commit a more serious force.
I mean I made a sentry tanking Cane that worked wonderfully(course I ditched it for a indie cause I stumbled on the fight by -A- and got podded for my time).
But the issue comes down to most of the people who go to low are not wanting to pvp on the campers overweighted terms.
They want to fight something they have a chance of winning or at least fleeing from.
Also I do think smartbombing on gate is bullshit.
It should be like with undocks of not being able to activate within 5 kms.
But mostly I see this as part of the slow revamp of low into well something.
Remove the biggest risk of just getting in and suddenly options.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#854 - 2012-08-24 01:03:29 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Personnaly I feel all the need to fix gate camping is have people come in over the entire grid instead of within 15 kms of the gate.
This would eliminate the camping aspect as then suddenly you have to move places or commit a more serious force.
I mean I made a sentry tanking Cane that worked wonderfully(course I ditched it for a indie cause I stumbled on the fight by -A- and got podded for my time).
But the issue comes down to most of the people who go to low are not wanting to pvp on the campers overweighted terms.
They want to fight something they have a chance of winning or at least fleeing from.
Also I do think smartbombing on gate is bullshit.
It should be like with undocks of not being able to activate within 5 kms.
But mostly I see this as part of the slow revamp of low into well something.
Remove the biggest risk of just getting in and suddenly options.


I went into losec again today. No problem again. Not even anyone on the in gate.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#855 - 2012-08-24 01:08:18 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:


I went into losec again today. No problem again. Not even anyone on the in gate.


I found the same thing, maybe everyone thinks the patch has hit.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#856 - 2012-08-24 01:11:31 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:


I went into losec again today. No problem again. Not even anyone on the in gate.


I found the same thing, maybe everyone thinks the patch has hit.


Pretty sure its always been like that everywhere other than Rancer and Amamake
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#857 - 2012-08-24 01:16:27 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:


I went into losec again today. No problem again. Not even anyone on the in gate.


I found the same thing, maybe everyone thinks the patch has hit.


Pretty sure its always been like that everywhere other than Rancer and Amamake


QFT...as a lowsec dweller, I can say most gates in my area are not camped unless my corp is doing it...lol...

I personally think the bears are just using gate camping as an excuse, don't expect gate camp removal to fix anything, they'll just get destroyed in belts, missions and anoms by the pirates...then scury back to highsec "safety"...

James315 for CSM 8!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#858 - 2012-08-24 01:33:41 UTC
Abel Merkabah wrote:
I personally think the bears are just using gate camping as an excuse, don't expect gate camp removal to fix anything, they'll just get destroyed in belts, missions and anoms by the pirates...then scury back to highsec "safety"...

Yeah, ... well maybe this time it'll work :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#859 - 2012-08-24 01:37:02 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:
I personally think the bears are just using gate camping as an excuse, don't expect gate camp removal to fix anything, they'll just get destroyed in belts, missions and anoms by the pirates...then scury back to highsec "safety"...

Yeah, ... well maybe this time it'll work :)


Fingers are crossed...but not holding breath just yet...Roll

James315 for CSM 8!
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#860 - 2012-08-24 02:27:51 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Well, depends on the care bear. For example if they can get into low sec they can consider trade at stations, explore the belts, search for anomolies or even consider missions that require low sec. Don't get me wrong, this alone is not the "get the bear into low sec fix" but reducing gate camps will have to part of the solution once other carrots are put into low sec to make risk/reward make sense in this under utilized portion of space.

And to be fair I should have reworded my post. What I was really reacting to was that this issue is not "clear support against and none for", there was support for variations of the idea with players as well as those against. Not acknowledging that some folks liked the idea in general (including a few CSM) was what prompted me to post.

I don't think gate gun changes are as dead as some may have suggested. Also, the real discussion should be broader about how to improve low sec for everyone.

Issler
You are clueless.

Gate camps are not prolific. I hop into and out of lowsec many many many times per week and rarely encounter gate camps.

Rancer and Amamake are not indicative of all lowsec/highsec border systems. If you think that, then you're a damned fool.

You might want to start travelling into lowsec, Issler, before spouting off your nonsense.


I live in low sec so I definitely know what I'm talking about. Last night there was a camp on at least one of the gates ot the three systems I was running trade through for about 90% of the two hours I was on.

Our corp used to operate in a high sec bubble in the middle of low sec and because the major routes in and out were constantly camped we moved almost all our activity out.

Maybe you need to spend more time in low sec.

Issler