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Planned lowsec sentry "fix" - you guys serious?

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Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#221 - 2012-08-03 04:41:06 UTC
This would seriously **** up lowsec. Please no.


Is this the same CCP Greyscale guy who keeps coming up with ~brilliant~ ideas?

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Bunolagus
NIPTO
#222 - 2012-08-03 04:50:28 UTC
"You need to read the thread. These changes are going to make it easier for pirates to kill your PVE ship. You will be dead before the gate guns become an issue."



Can't get to the Dev post from here. Will the sentry guns continue to ramp damage until aggressor warps out?
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#223 - 2012-08-03 05:10:22 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
If only there was a way to have a cloaky neutral or OOC alt on one side of a gate and a fleet of pirats on the other side in a near-gate safe outside the grid and/or sentry gun range. Then, when the cloaky spots incoming targets, said fleet of pirats could warp to the gate and engage said targets.

However, I do realize that this is slightly more complicated than parking a Disco BS near the gate then rolling your face on your F1 key at the drop of a dime and that Pirats may actually have to work for a living and that's just not fair. Please reconsider CCP. Think of the Pirats.


It would be ironic if pirates had to use alts after telling everyone for years to use an alt as a gate scout. P

You do bring up a valid point though. Just another reason why warp-to- 0 and and the current unrestricted bookmarking system will break so many ideas.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#224 - 2012-08-03 05:16:22 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
If only there was a way to have a cloaky neutral or OOC alt on one side of a gate and a fleet of pirats on the other side in a near-gate safe outside the grid and/or sentry gun range. Then, when the cloaky spots incoming targets, said fleet of pirats could warp to the gate and engage said targets.

However, I do realize that this is slightly more complicated than parking a Disco BS near the gate then rolling your face on your F1 key at the drop of a dime and that Pirats may actually have to work for a living and that's just not fair. Please reconsider CCP. Think of the Pirats.


It would be ironic if pirates had to use alts after telling everyone for years to use an alt as a gate scout. P

You do bring up a valid point though. Just another reason why warp-to- 0 and and the current unrestricted bookmarking system will break so many ideas.


.... we already do use gate scouts??

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2012-08-03 05:23:53 UTC
"CCP Greyscale moves on to explain his work on sentry guns. Sentry guns will now shoot anyone with a criminal flag, suspect or otherwise. Sentry guns will also start with smaller amounts of damage, and ramp up with time. Ideal tuning will be to where triage carriers will die at around 4 1/2 minutes. This way, if you want to use triage carriers in lowsec on gates you can, but you must commit to the cycle for a length of time before starting your reps, if you want to deactivate triage before the sentry guns kill you and jump out. CCP Greyscale also points out that another goal is to make it so that the first couple of hits won't kill an interceptor immediately, enabling a quick tackle, and then a warp out."

TL:DR - we want MORE people to use lowsec so we are making the guns capable of killing anything that moves, shoots or idles anywhere near a gate or station with anything less than perfect sec status because killing all the people in lowsec will INCREASE the population there.

Yeah greyscale that makes complete ******* sense I'm so glad you spent company time and money coming up with this genius piece of work.

If this is your idea of "helping" lowsec please for the love of god, don't do me any favors.

The LULZ Boat.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2012-08-03 05:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Vordak Kallager wrote:
This would seriously **** up lowsec. Please no.


Is this the same CCP Greyscale guy who keeps coming up with ~brilliant~ ideas?



It seems it is the same person *snip*


EDIT: Suggestion of physical violence toward CCP staff removed.

I really don't think we need comments like that. In future please post responsibly as suggestions of that kind are against forum rules - ISD Type40.

The LULZ Boat.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#227 - 2012-08-03 05:33:27 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:


You should edit that away.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Suqq Madiq
#228 - 2012-08-03 05:46:03 UTC
Garreth Vlox wrote:
Yeah greyscale that makes complete ******* sense I'm so glad you spent company time and money coming up with this genius piece of work.

If this is your idea of "helping" lowsec please for the love of god, don't do me any favors.


You make some compelling arguments and counterpoints. Yours is a well thought out post with many good ideas and you should be hired by CCP immediately.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#229 - 2012-08-03 05:57:05 UTC
Not that I give a crap about lowsec, seriously, does anyone?, but these changes are beyond dumb.
The only upside I see is that rancer will no longer be perma disco rokh camped.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#230 - 2012-08-03 06:05:37 UTC
these changes will not stop gatecamping in the slightest, as most 'pirates' use a ping and warp down to a gate to kill stuff jumping in

it will however stop actual fights, for whichever side takes sentry aggro.

with sentries having the ability to down a triage carrier (that can tank up to 20k dps), the average buffered BS will die in less than 10 seconds - in essence, once the fight hits 5 minutes, its game over regardless of the fight.

i'm in favour of having guns escalate their damage with time, but it should be capped - at probably a max of 600-1,000 dps. to those csm representatives whom have posted here, this will kill off fights in lowsec, and make the only people in lowsec pure gatecampers. the so called 'problem' you have is going to be made worse, not better by the proposed changes.

your ignorance in your view of what actually happens in lowsec pvp is quite frankly disgusting; and i care little to enlighten you beyond my own cause.

-Rock
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#231 - 2012-08-03 06:24:46 UTC
From the wording it also sounds like anyone who steals (once the new mechanics for crimes goes into effect) sentries will shoot them too.


This idea is bad. Just plain bad.


It won't make people go into low sec more.



In fact, low sec might become even less populated than it already is.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#232 - 2012-08-03 06:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
I for one welcome our new remote sensor boosted aligned Tier 3 gate camps.


Seriously CCP if you really think this is a good idea you are ******* stupid, just remove low sec and carriers from the game. You've started well by screwing up FW, may as well finish it..
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2012-08-03 06:48:23 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:


In fact, low sec might become even less populated than it already is.


So 10 minus 1?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#234 - 2012-08-03 07:04:12 UTC
Isalone wrote:

I've lived in lowsec for quite a while now and gotta tell you - this is probably gonna cause as much "whine 'n' unsub" threads as nex store/greed is good did. For those who don't go to low often - most of fleet/gang fights in low take place at gates. If gateguns are gonna pop carriers 4.5mins into the fight, cruiser/bc fleets going gcc on a gate aren't gonna happen at all. When was the last time you have seen a carrier at a gate? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Gatecamps - those aren't the problem, people who won't learn/adapt are. You can easily get through all of them, just do a little research.

discuss, lol


The funny thing is...I want to be mad at this change, but I really can't be. I'm kinda out of eve atm, but all my lowsec PvP is flying solo in frigates. I might take something a little bigger out here or there, but I love me some frigate dogfights. To be blunt, this would be good for lowsec. It would get those gatecampers off their asses and encourage some actual interesting fights. I'm sorry to burst your little bubble, but gatecamps in general are boring and stupid. And no, I don't get caught by gatecamps. I know how to avoid them. But that doesn't change how stupid they are. They punish players for bringing anything larger than a frigate out there because the gatecamps **** them. They also take no ******* skill whatsoever. You sit there in a big group waiting for solitary pilots to pop through then dogpile onto them. Frankly, gatecamps are about as carebear as you can ******* get in lowsec. Wah, wah, now I have to actually go LOOKING for a fight. Good show CCP. Maybe now I'll actually get a decent fight next time I'm plexing in lowsec.


On a different note, the changes will hurt ninja salvaging, which bothers me...but still, it can be adapted to.

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Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#235 - 2012-08-03 07:14:50 UTC
Oh hey @ Liang.

I actually have a lot of respect for you, but consider what these changes mean. If the gate guns start off much weaker than current gate guns and take long enough to ramp up, this actually makes gate fighting *easier* for the first 45-60 seconds, thereby encouraging PvP. If they do this right, you'll be getting kills and moving on well before this ramp up becomes a problem. The only people who lose out on this are the clusterfucks you see just sitting on gates doing **** all. Frankly, I'm all for it. Every time I slip through a gatecamp I chuckle, only to have my humor turn sour when I pass the *same* gatecamp hours later. That's not how PvP should be.

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Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2012-08-03 07:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
Garresh wrote:
Oh hey @ Liang.

I actually have a lot of respect for you, but consider what these changes mean. If the gate guns start off much weaker than current gate guns and take long enough to ramp up, this actually makes gate fighting *easier* for the first 45-60 seconds, thereby encouraging PvP. If they do this right, you'll be getting kills and moving on well before this ramp up becomes a problem. The only people who lose out on this are the clusterfucks you see just sitting on gates doing **** all. Frankly, I'm all for it. Every time I slip through a gatecamp I chuckle, only to have my humor turn sour when I pass the *same* gatecamp hours later. That's not how PvP should be.

They'd have to have some seriously interesting curve fitting for the formula to allow dps at 45-60 seconds be lower than what it is currently yet take down a triage carrier around 4-5 minutes in.

The people who lose out on this are:
1.) smartbombers who will have to adapt or unsubscribe
2.) Anyone who wants to move through lowsec with a chance of not getting owned in the face. Enjoy your instant interceptor tackles followed by sniping tornadoes, a death in <20 seconds, and them warping away to safe. It does nothing to stop gatecamps and everything to stop serious engagements (i.e. gang v. gang, not shooting random passerby) on gates. This is either going to make pirates give up or utilize tactics that will actually be MORE effective on your average gate.
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#237 - 2012-08-03 07:31:12 UTC
Fair point,but It's not the first time we've seen some interesting growth curves in games. I mean let's be honest, given the right exponential curve it could easily undergo a rapid acceleration period at the 60 second mark while still staying manageable before that. Just need the numbers right. Also, while this means that gate campers will be able to get guaranteed kills every so often, after every kill they're gonna have to abandon ship and spend a while just sitting on their asses waiting around until they can start camping again. It may incentivize larger camps, but the ramp up combined with aggro timers punishes those blobs because they start becoming unsustainable in short order. each of the individual mechanics are kinda derp, but put together they actually make a twisted sort of sense.

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Mardrus
Perkone
Caldari State
#238 - 2012-08-03 07:32:51 UTC
So where to begin?

Gate camps will remain as they are today for the most part. Disco BS will warp to gate when there neutral alt sees the frig approach the other side of the gate or when they see frig on D-scan and disco kill him and then warp off (he probably even gets more time as the gates give lower aggro at first). So gate camps are not fixed by this in anyway! (the guys who just sit there will adapt to what other disco pirates already do)

New gate camps with thrashers and hi DPS frigs / inties will form as they are now a viable solution.

So fixing camping has failed completely.

For the people who roam (I am no griefer/Pirate but have negative sec-status and will engage a neutral fleet)

I have exactly x mins, where x is smaller than 4 apparently to finish the fight or I die to CCP fire.

This means the great fights we have versus pirate entities (Snuff and such) which can last an hour, will no longer be possible or it will be a case of convoing and hoping they will warp with us to planet and take the fight Roll

Also I want more pple who want to fight for their stuff in lowsec. I do not want more carebears!!!!! ***** them they can stay where they belong!!!!!

So please, please, please, tell me how this is a good idea!!!!!!!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#239 - 2012-08-03 07:33:36 UTC
If your entire pvp experience is low-sec consists of "45-60" second fights, then I can see how this change wouldn't affect you much. Even small gang fights, however, last much longer than that. In 10-on-10 engagements, it wouldn't be uncommon to see the end of the fight happen around the 10-minute mark. Considering the fact that according to math, the gate guns are going to be doing more dps than a 10-man gang by the 121th second, this change is a massive nerf to "actual interesting fights."

The only thing you will see is an increase in gate camps, which will now be done with interceptors and alpha strikers.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#240 - 2012-08-03 07:43:38 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If your entire pvp experience is low-sec consists of "45-60" second fights, then I can see how this change wouldn't affect you much. Even small gang fights, however, last much longer than that. In 10-on-10 engagements, it wouldn't be uncommon to see the end of the fight happen around the 10-minute mark. Considering the fact that according to math, the gate guns are going to be doing more dps than a 10-man gang by the 121th second, this change is a massive nerf to "actual interesting fights."

The only thing you will see is an increase in gate camps, which will now be done with interceptors and alpha strikers.


Then extend the curve out to like 15 minutes. The core principle seems sound. That math needs work. Lol

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