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Could EVE 'work' as a F2P game?
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Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-08-02 10:38:03 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
^^What they said.^^

There is no bloody way EVE could ever work as F2P/P2W, and the utter travesty that would result from trying wouldn't last long. And it would die noisily and messily.

CCP knows this*, which is why they are going that way in a totally separate (aside from shared-universe) game that's not even ported to PC.

Console-twitch-kiddies may be willing and all too pathetically eager to swallow that P2W-bilge --on their parents' dime, 'natch!-- but we are far too mature and smart for that. (Well, theoretically, anywayRoll)

And EVE, warts and all, is far too good for that.

Proof:

If you're not familiar with it, then Google "EVE Summer of Rage," or similar, and look on EVE-search at some of the old forum-threads regarding that utter debacle.

(/Sadface) Bad, seriously bad time, that, and the travesty that is the NEx store still staring at us in station every bloody time we dock...X

*At least, I bloody well hope they do...Their possible attempt to go mainstream again --because that worked so well the last time!-- by handing carebears their safety on a platter in hisec does not bode well, IMHO.

E:

I note that you created that character less than 2 weeks before the Incarna expansion hit, OP --assuming that this is your first, and not an alt, then do some reading, you'll find that some of what you might have seen last summer will have context and meaning for you --As it must have, for a newbie, felt like stepping into a madhouse where the inmates had already killed the staff and were running the place (like that's such a radical change, thoughBlink).


Yes, this is my main, thank you for asking - I started playing the game and nearly immediately moved into a wormhole, so I didn't really keep up with Incarna and the drama surrounding it.

The thing I don't think you realize is that F2P and P2W aren't always synonymous, though they frequently are so due to poor decision making on the part of the developers. I'd go into this more but it's stupid late here.

Mocktar Olachenko wrote:
Eve is F2P, if you know what you're doing.

Cheekiness aside, I really don't see how a true F2P model could work. The PLEX model as is is pretty damn good and is as close as we should ever get.


Ah, yes, but that does require some rather heroic (IMO) effort.

Ms Kat wrote:
a couple of ways instantly spring to mind....

Limit SP gained per hour - then have uncapped with "premium accounts"

Limit trading

Limit mineing

Limit missioning

Limit standing gains..

Offer SP in a cash shop, ship skins, standings resets, name changes, clothes, title, Limited ships, maybe even sell faction standins


Just all ideas which popped into head as writing not though given, but any game can support F2P


Yes, these also occurred to me, but then I thought...damn, playing EVE would suck, then.

By the way, I'm not advocating EVE going F2P nor am I complaining about the subscription - I only recently got a minimum wage job and I still have managed to pay my sub every month since I decided to subscribe.

I definitely do agree with all of you who have said that EVE going F2P would be terrible and that even if it did, the game itself isn't designed in a way that really supports it without placing painfully arbitrary limits on gameplay.

And like I said before, I am sorry for reopening this can of worms.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Keno Skir
#42 - 2012-08-02 11:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
I pay my sub cus it's worth it personally to me :/ If it was free-to-play, it would have to be pay-to-win.

That would be sh*te and i'd cancel both my accounts.

(Apology accepted, please shut the can and never speak of this evil again.)

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Herr Hammer Draken
#43 - 2012-08-02 11:27:28 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Plex is free for someone so if you only use plex then yes it's free to play from a certain point of view (the buyer) though not from a sellers point of view.


Plex also has a limited supply. If nobody bought plex to sell in game then all of your alts playing the game on plex would have to become paying subs.

This is a note for everybody that plays only one account and hates the players that have multiple accounts.
You enable their game play if you buy plex. So stop buying plex.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#44 - 2012-08-02 12:19:33 UTC
FtP Eve ? No, please.
I'm reading other articles on FtP as well and I shiver in fear at the thought of the possibility of things such as "golden ammunition" and the "I Win Button because I PAID for it". Oh hell no. Seriouly, FtP would kill Eve, for me at least. Let it never be so.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/08/good-riddance-the-death-of-online-gamings-monthly-subscription-model/

Whatever that's worth, an indication of how "other" MMO's are going F2P.
I pray to all deities this never happens to Eve.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#45 - 2012-08-02 12:32:20 UTC
Absolutely not, and I'll tell you why. The success of F2P is based on the idea of extremely low barrier of entry. All you do is download it, give it a whirl, and once you start having fun you become a long term player. After that happens, you start doing micro-transactions to enhance your experience somewhere down the road.

This doesn't work with eve becase:

A. Even if EvE had a low financial barrier of entry, it's a game with an extremely high skill and knowledge barrier. Even players who think they're having fun in eve aren't actually playing for real until about 2-3 months in. They're still in that honeymoon period where everything is new and they don't really get it all yet.

B.Almost all F2P games incorporate some element of pay 2 win. Eve *already* has this in the form of Plex, which means that further financial investments might not pay nearly as much given the massive proliferation of alts. So this severely limits any potential revenue from these sources of income, and would actually in all likelihood result in a loss of wealth when they made the switch.(Note that I don't have a problem with Plex, but that's because the Pay2Win element works in reverse as well)

C. Regardless of any of these changes, the player base is FIERCELY defensive of what they believe Eve to be. I actually left for about 6 months after Monoclegate because I was depressed at the idea of Eve turning into something else that was not in the spirit of eve. Eve already has huge issues gathering new players. Any change that violates the spirit of eve in the eyes of the community is a death sentence. Eve will never recover. Even now, it feels like many of the former bloggers and power players in eve have abandoned ship after monoclegate. Eve Online cannot handle the stress of the loss of their community. At the end of the day, it's really the only thing that truly sets eve apart. The sandbox mechanics are just a vessel for that community spirit.




On a different note, almost all F2P games are exploitive by nature. The only F2P game I am completely comfortable with playing is DoTA 2, because 100% of all freemium content is cosmetic. There are no combat-affecting items.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#46 - 2012-08-02 12:33:50 UTC
If EvE went F2P I'm pretty sure a significant portion of the sub base would abandon ship. Because F2P usually comes with P2W, and that is complete bullsh*t.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#47 - 2012-08-02 14:26:42 UTC
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
If EvE went F2P I'm pretty sure a significant portion of the sub base would abandon ship. Because F2P usually comes with P2W, and that is complete bullsh*t.


Buy PLEX with cash, sell PLEX for ISK, buy the best ships and equipment for ISK.

The very definition of buying an unfair advantage.

Just saying.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#48 - 2012-08-02 14:27:15 UTC
With PLEX eve is truly a F2P game. Absolute best model. Those other F2P models will basically destroy the MMO gaming market. They are producing vapid fluff. I can't wait until the F2P angry birds online MMO releases. Problem is some jackass will buy it for 50 billion and then have to write it all off 6 months later. Bankers giggling in glee the whole time :)

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#49 - 2012-08-02 14:30:35 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
If EvE went F2P I'm pretty sure a significant portion of the sub base would abandon ship. Because F2P usually comes with P2W, and that is complete bullsh*t.


Buy PLEX with cash, sell PLEX for ISK, buy the best ships and honour tank for ISK.

The very definition of buying an unfair advantage.

Just saying.



FYP Blink

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#50 - 2012-08-02 14:31:25 UTC
Ehhhh, You really couldent make eve f2p

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Jim Era
#51 - 2012-08-02 14:34:01 UTC
Go away with your cheap ftp ideologies. F2p has no place in EVE. It belongs in substandard games.

Wat™
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#52 - 2012-08-02 14:34:04 UTC
It probibly could if they sold ship patterns for cash... or aur....

Know what? I WOULD buy a new paint job for my pve boat just because it would make it more interesting.

Could they make a profit from ppl buying paintjobs? IDK....
Kheeria
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-08-02 14:42:30 UTC
If EVE went F2P it would be swarmed with alts IMHO.
Anubis Star
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-08-02 14:55:00 UTC
F2P wouldnt be too bad, if P2W would not come. Some big Games showed that this is possible, but it would really be hard to implement this in Eve, honestly I believe this would take them some years to really get a working concept of F2P and not P2W. If they would manage this, why not? But it's just not worth the work.
Jim Era
#55 - 2012-08-02 14:56:54 UTC
I would rather double sub costs and gladly pay more to keep the production going and not have f2p.

Wat™
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#56 - 2012-08-02 15:02:12 UTC
EVE is already Free to play. If you are good enough in game to amass the ISK needed to buy PLEX, you can play for free. Likewise, you can pay RL money to get visual perks (the clothing store) and in-game advantages (ISK from selling a PLEX).

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Jim Era
#57 - 2012-08-02 15:03:21 UTC
time is not free o.o eve is not f2p PLEX is not free, it costs something.

Wat™
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#58 - 2012-08-02 15:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Andoria Thara
Most F2P games are just "extended trials" anyways... you can't really do anything unless you either sub and become a *Premium Member*, or unlock parts of the game a la carte style (like the LOTRO model)

Really all they would need to do is remove the time limit on the trial, perhaps add more restrictions to it, and they'd have a F2P game.

But, if they did do that, the stigma attached to calling something "Free to Play" would end up ruining the game.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#59 - 2012-08-02 15:16:40 UTC
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:
Ms Kat wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
let's look at some examples of games that have gone/are going f2p.

ddo (dungeons and dragons online)
swtor (starwars something or other)

common factor; they're terrible.



Hate to let you in on a secret... EVE isnt doing so well at the moment

For what I know, is the only MMO which player base is increasing even if it is a sub game. Even WoW has lost a lot of players lately (although they will gain a lot more when the pandas will be out)

F2P won't attract WoW players, since WoW is the anthitesis to f2p. In fact, in EVE you can play for free considering you know what you are doing and you farm your sub.

WoW is the only MMO which you must pay to play. And will keep being so.




False. So is Diablo 3. Shocked

See what I did here?
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#60 - 2012-08-02 15:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: arcca jeth
Polly Oxford wrote:
I guess you played another game when you saw those numbers, because Eve definitely never had those.


guess you were playing another game before incarna came out or you would have remembered the news when Tranquility was breaking record "concurrent users" records. We were pushing toward a 60k milestone and 40-45k would be online any any given moment.

back on topic, no FTP wouldn't work. PLEX is an awesome solution for those who want to play free, a counter to isk sellers and an additional revenue stream for CCP. Also I love it because I have spare RL cash and not enough time to grind ISK and the time I do have to play, I want to play and not grind ISK. I have given CCP more money this year than I ever have.