Intergalactic Summit

Can you give me proof you exist?



Dearest Scherezad,

I have no idea what you just said.

Different logic is not required, if you climb down from heavenly metaphysics to mundane physics.
Timeless entities would be frozen systems without any kind of evolution or motion.
And invariant of any given system with respect to time is called an 'energy'.



You are calling people bonkers because they believe in God without one single proof?
Yet you don't provide One. Single. Proof of absence of this God. This makes you believe in absence of God.
My point is, you have efficiently called yourself a bonker.

Giraffes don't exist

Proving that God exist to those who have shut their minds and harts is like trying to paint a picture of the most glorious thing possible and then asking a blind man to say what the subject of the picture is. God is not something that can be proven by logic and test of know events and reactions because God is the source of all things and his will is shown to those who do not believe every day, with or without tests.

An understandable perspective but an unfortunate one.

I would suggest instead that as long as the Reclaiming continues to be misused and misrepresented to justify personal vendettas and racial hostility, as long as the forces responsible for regulating the treatment of those enslaved and ensuring the spiritual development and instruction of those enslaved are negligent or forcibly impotent, as long as capsuleers continue to bastardize the Amarr faith and pay lip service to righteousness while filling their coffers with blood money then the Amarr faith will continue to be painted as a destructive and negative aspect in the cluster.

It is a testimony to the damage done by those who wield power selfishly and faith ignorantly.

The Empire does employ multiple ways of trying to cultivate others, though I know this may seem hard to believe given the interactions between our two peoples and the muddiness of history. Force is meant to be reserved as a final resort for those that choose to rebel or remain objectively opposed to God in spite of all other attempts at Reclaiming.

You see, to the Amarr, using force to subjugate a people in rebellion and unrighteousness is worth whatever hatred and hostility it initially breeds between us and them. The reason for this is because the eternal souls of the people being subjugated possess greater value than anything else (being that the soul is eternal and its destiny being eternal will inevitably give it more value than anything temporal). A people cannot generally see their state of rebellion and unrighteousness while they are living in the midst of it, it is like expecting a child to see why they are being childish. There are those that willingly embrace the message of God and righteousness and set themselves upon the path of penance (which does not always involve slavery), but all-too-often people reject the message and the messengers.

As for the last part of your statement, even the unrighteous are part of God's creation and I doubt you and your kin are interested in destroying all of God's creation, you are not EoM cultists after all. We hold in faith that God will not allow us, God's chosen, to be annihilated while we remain righteous before him and spread his message. That is not to say that we are beyond falling to unrighteousness and facing God's judgment in that hour, but as long as we remain righteous and seek to do God's will, it is our belief that God will not allow us to perish.

I believe my statement regarding the EoM and the Minmatar (by comparison) is slightly misunderstood. You indicated that your kin would destroy all of God's creation, that would include the Gallente, Intaki, Jin-Mei, Civire, Achura, Deteis, Brutor, Vherikor, Sebiestor, Khanid, Ni-Kunni, Amarr, Udorian, Ealur and so on. My statement is simply that I doubt even the most hateful among the Minmatar are bent on destroying all people everywhere, their hatred is oft more focused than that.

As to your original statement, I would ask what the general impression of the Gallente Federation is among the people in the cluster. It practices cultural warfare and "peaceful" assimilation and is hated as equally, if not more so, than the Amarr Empire. Even if the Empire were to pursue non-forcible means of spreading the message, it would still be met with hatred and opposition the difference is that we are willing to do what is necessary to save as many as possible even if they hate us for it and we make no apologies or dishonest statements about it.

It is a sad truth, but a truth nonetheless.

I have enjoyed this discussion thus far and I pray you are not perceiving my engagement with you as anything personal or demeaning, it is merely a discussion.

You are right, we don't. Your cultural identity is of no value in the eternal time scale and clinging to cultural identity above and beyond your spiritual well-being is exactly what the Amarr seek to dissuade. Our interest isn't in destroying your culture nor in eradicating your racial identity, our interest is in cutting away all that would keep you separated from righteousness and God. This unfortunately requires that certain things you consider fundamental to your culture will be undermined and even destroyed by the Amarr without giving you a choice in the matter, yes.

I understand why this breeds hatred, anger and malice toward us but I still hold my belief that it is an acceptable price to pay in order to help as many of you find your way to God as possible. I can and do apologize for the immoral and inhumane atrocities that have been committed within the folds of slavery, I can and do apologize for the hatred and malice you've been shown by many Amarr who claim to be doing God's work and I grieve at the loss of life on both sides of the ongoing conflict between our people.

Yet I will still try and be both honest and sincere in my dealings with you and all others, even if this means I am misunderstood and even despised. Perhaps one day the grievances between us will be rectified, until then we can continue to pursue understanding.

To your first point: I appreciate the kindness of your words pertaining to my beliefs and I am pleased to see that you do not consider me malicious. I would suggest that my inability to be shaken is more likely due to my being stubborn and obstinate more than anything else. Also, please understand that I do not believe the end justifies the means, which I will try to illustrate as a response to your inquiry.



Convenience or cowardice? The Federation does need to be Reclaimed but the method of Reclaiming the Federation may not be one of direct warfare, it is possible to Reclaim a people through evangelism and mission work (I believe this was the point you were trying to make earlier). If a people prove rebellious to evangelism and mission work and remain powerful enough to deny conquest, then we must do all that we can and wait until such a time where one door or the other opens. On that note, God will not shelter the Empire from being annihilated should we fail to uphold righteousness and pursue his will. Nor is it a guarantee that God will shield the Empire from destruction at the hands of those who count themselves its enemies. What is guaranteed is that even should the Empire fall, God will raise up another people to fulfill his work, his sovereign will cannot be squelched by the failings and oppositions of his Creation.



I do hope that you did not perceive my part in this discussion as being dismissive of your points, I was seeking to discuss them not dismiss them. I would agree that yes, it is convenient that many Amarr will justify whatever they wish to with the divine mandate of the Reclaiming and it is a travesty that this occurs. I would also suggest that these individuals are guilty of grievances against both God and themselves and the Empire has, in the past, and will punish such blasphemies. As to your last point: it is damning. The loss of lives is a tragic and while I would say that minimizing the loss of lives while pursuing the end goal is the ultimate desire, sadly there are many that take no interest in doing so. (I would direct you to the thread by the Gutter Press pertaining to the Amarr "conquest" as an example of this.) Our own callousness and disregard for the lives of those whose souls we seek to save is something I perceive to be a grievance to God and perhaps it is a contributing factor to a number of things now plaguing the Empire and the Amarr; our penance, if you prefer.



I agree, almost entirely so. I do not believe the Empire is a detriment to the entire cluster because that would suggest that should the Empire fulfill its goal, the cluster would be worse for it (which I wholeheartedly disagree with). I do believe that the Empire is a detriment unto itself presently because many of us have lost our way, forsaken our purpose and disregarded compassion and sincerity in a cold pursuit of righteousness. I believe it is possible to lose sight of righteousness in the pursuit of it and it seems we may be guilty of having done so.

In summary, there are multiple paths to the same end and while one path may work for one people it will not work for others. We must practice wisdom and discretion in walking the paths we walk for what profit is it to those we seek to guide toward God if we make them hate God in the process?

This discourse between us has grown to be quite lengthy, perhaps we can arrange that personal conversation we agreed to have and continue this there?

I was speaking of "mundane physics" and not metaphysics, Kim-haani. A "timeless" entity would be able to break the causality upon which our sense of logic rests. The only way to properly examine such an entity is the construction of a new axiomatic system that doesn't rely on causality.

I'm speaking rather out of my field, though, so please excuse my errors. I'm certain that they are both present and numerous.