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Developer Comments on Mining Crystals and Cargo Capacity?

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Dave stark
#141 - 2012-07-31 21:16:54 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

So now your complaint is that you can't have solo and max yield, in which case yes, they still did it right. There is no problem with that.


you don't even understand the topic of discussion. stop posting.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#142 - 2012-07-31 21:17:28 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
mining isn't fun to begin with
Then why are you doing it with even one account? (Oh, and no, you don't need a second one.)

Quote:
how does this change make mining more fun, interesting, better, or anything positive?
It gives you more options and offers more decisions — that is more fun, interesting, and better in and of itself.

It also adds an element of planning and task-managing. It also increases the rewards of socialising and running disciplined fleets. It gives you stuff to do while the lasers cycle, reducing that supposed tedium. All of it fun, interesting, and better.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#143 - 2012-07-31 21:17:47 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

it's irrelevant, if you're not maxing your yield gimping your raw isk/hour regardless of what minerals cost on the market.


Until you realize every single miner thinks exactly this way. Your individual greed is collectively screwing over your entire profession.
Dave stark
#144 - 2012-07-31 21:20:39 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

it's irrelevant, if you're not maxing your yield gimping your raw isk/hour regardless of what minerals cost on the market.


Until you realize every single miner thinks exactly this way. Your individual greed is collectively screwing over your entire profession.


i'm not arguing with you because you're wrong.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#145 - 2012-07-31 21:21:40 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

it's irrelevant, if you're not maxing your yield gimping your raw isk/hour regardless of what minerals cost on the market.


Until you realize every single miner thinks exactly this way. Your individual greed is collectively screwing over your entire profession.


i'm not arguing with you because you're wrong.


excellent debate skills, considering running for the US Senate?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2012-07-31 21:22:31 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

So now your complaint is that you can't have solo and max yield, in which case yes, they still did it right. There is no problem with that.


you don't even understand the topic of discussion. stop posting.

The topic is that you feel the hold is insufficient and that you should need outside assistance to fully utilize the capabilities of the ship. My statement is simplified but a direct response to the arguments you've been making.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#147 - 2012-07-31 21:23:07 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
i'm not arguing with you because you're wrong.
Not really, no. It's basic economics.

The higher you push your yield, the less valuable it becomes. Your only hope is that miners in general are opting for something else. So more likely, you're not arguing with him because you can't find any faults with the reasoning.
Dave stark
#148 - 2012-07-31 21:23:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
mining isn't fun to begin with
Then why are you doing it with even one account? (Oh, and no, you don't need a second one.)

Quote:
how does this change make mining more fun, interesting, better, or anything positive?
It gives you more options and offers more decisions — that is more fun, interesting, and better in and of itself.

It also adds an element of planning and task-managing. It also increases the rewards of socialising and running disciplined fleets. It gives you stuff to do while the lasers cycle, reducing that supposed tedium. All of it fun, interesting, and better.


there's a difference between fun and enjoyable. i find mining enjoyable but not fun.

it doesn't add an element of planning at all, like i said earlier it just makes me warp in and out 1 more time. that's just a waste of my time.
it doesn't reward fleets for being disciplined and organised, it just pisses off haulers because they have more crap to do. you don't gain a single goddamn thing with this new system. if we got a bigger bonus on crystal multipliers etc i'd put up with it and say "well the crystal situation is **** but at least we're getting a bonus for putting up with this bollocks"

none of it is fun, interesting or better. you're pissing off the haulers by giving them extra and pointless work, and having to warp in and out of a belt because i can't carry enough crystals just wastes my time.
Dave stark
#149 - 2012-07-31 21:24:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i'm not arguing with you because you're wrong.
Not really, no. It's basic economics.

The higher you push your yield, the less valuable it becomes. Your only hope is that miners in general are opting for something else. So more likely, you're not arguing with him because you can't find any faults with the reasoning.


costs go down, mining does down, still takes as long to buy some thing. from a miners pov the value of minerals means nothing.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#150 - 2012-07-31 21:25:45 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

I feel obligated to point out that the more all miners overbuff their ship to get a "yield advantage" the less valuable the mining profession becomes because you flood the market with lots of mins. I love the free market!


They overbuff the Hulk so much because it has still to be viable over Macks despite both the drawbacks PLUS the crystal logistics.

If it only had the tank + cargo hold drawbacks then it could be buffed much less and would still be viable over Macks and this would help vs the minerals flood.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#151 - 2012-07-31 21:26:17 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i'm not arguing with you because you're wrong.
Not really, no. It's basic economics.

The higher you push your yield, the less valuable it becomes. Your only hope is that miners in general are opting for something else. So more likely, you're not arguing with him because you can't find any faults with the reasoning.


costs go down, mining does down, still takes as long to buy some thing. from a miners pov the value of minerals means nothing.


In my experience it's cost goes down, miner profits drop, miners whine for another yield buff on the forums.

I find it kind of funny.
Dave stark
#152 - 2012-07-31 21:26:31 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

it's irrelevant, if you're not maxing your yield gimping your raw isk/hour regardless of what minerals cost on the market.


Until you realize every single miner thinks exactly this way. Your individual greed is collectively screwing over your entire profession.


i'm not arguing with you because you're wrong.


excellent debate skills, considering running for the US Senate?


that would mean moving to 'murikka. so, no.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2012-07-31 21:26:39 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
mining isn't fun to begin with
Then why are you doing it with even one account? (Oh, and no, you don't need a second one.)

Quote:
how does this change make mining more fun, interesting, better, or anything positive?
It gives you more options and offers more decisions — that is more fun, interesting, and better in and of itself.

It also adds an element of planning and task-managing. It also increases the rewards of socialising and running disciplined fleets. It gives you stuff to do while the lasers cycle, reducing that supposed tedium. All of it fun, interesting, and better.


there's a difference between fun and enjoyable. i find mining enjoyable but not fun.

it doesn't add an element of planning at all, like i said earlier it just makes me warp in and out 1 more time. that's just a waste of my time.
it doesn't reward fleets for being disciplined and organised, it just pisses off haulers because they have more crap to do. you don't gain a single goddamn thing with this new system. if we got a bigger bonus on crystal multipliers etc i'd put up with it and say "well the crystal situation is **** but at least we're getting a bonus for putting up with this bollocks"

none of it is fun, interesting or better. you're pissing off the haulers by giving them extra and pointless work, and having to warp in and out of a belt because i can't carry enough crystals just wastes my time.

Then use a mack which only needs 2/3 of the crystals, or better yet, a skiff
Dave stark
#154 - 2012-07-31 21:27:46 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i'm not arguing with you because you're wrong.
Not really, no. It's basic economics.

The higher you push your yield, the less valuable it becomes. Your only hope is that miners in general are opting for something else. So more likely, you're not arguing with him because you can't find any faults with the reasoning.


costs go down, mining does down, still takes as long to buy some thing. from a miners pov the value of minerals means nothing.


In my experience it's cost goes down, miner profits drop, miners whine for another yield buff on the forums.

I find it kind of funny.


guess i haven't been lurking the forums long enough to see that. when minerals were lower prices of things i were buying were proportionally lower so i haven't benefited from the price of minerals rising, to be honest.
Dave stark
#155 - 2012-07-31 21:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
mining isn't fun to begin with
Then why are you doing it with even one account? (Oh, and no, you don't need a second one.)

Quote:
how does this change make mining more fun, interesting, better, or anything positive?
It gives you more options and offers more decisions — that is more fun, interesting, and better in and of itself.

It also adds an element of planning and task-managing. It also increases the rewards of socialising and running disciplined fleets. It gives you stuff to do while the lasers cycle, reducing that supposed tedium. All of it fun, interesting, and better.


there's a difference between fun and enjoyable. i find mining enjoyable but not fun.

it doesn't add an element of planning at all, like i said earlier it just makes me warp in and out 1 more time. that's just a waste of my time.
it doesn't reward fleets for being disciplined and organised, it just pisses off haulers because they have more crap to do. you don't gain a single goddamn thing with this new system. if we got a bigger bonus on crystal multipliers etc i'd put up with it and say "well the crystal situation is **** but at least we're getting a bonus for putting up with this bollocks"

none of it is fun, interesting or better. you're pissing off the haulers by giving them extra and pointless work, and having to warp in and out of a belt because i can't carry enough crystals just wastes my time.

Then use a mack which only needs 2/3 of the crystals, or better yet, a skiff


and when the skiff or mack gets the yield of a hulk, i will. not that your comment is in any way related to the conversation.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#156 - 2012-07-31 21:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Dave stark wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i'm not arguing with you because you're wrong.
Not really, no. It's basic economics.

The higher you push your yield, the less valuable it becomes. Your only hope is that miners in general are opting for something else. So more likely, you're not arguing with him because you can't find any faults with the reasoning.


costs go down, mining does down, still takes as long to buy some thing. from a miners pov the value of minerals means nothing.


In my experience it's cost goes down, miner profits drop, miners whine for another yield buff on the forums.

I find it kind of funny.


guess i haven't been lurking the forums long enough to see that. when minerals were lower prices of things i were buying were proportionally lower so i haven't benefited from the price of minerals rising, to be honest.


Try going to "features and ideas".

At least twice a week someone is posting an idea for either a yield buff or a "superhulk" that will make miners rich.

Here's today's one: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=138865&find=unread
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#157 - 2012-07-31 21:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dave stark wrote:
i find mining enjoyable but not fun.
I find you weird if those two don't overlap for you.

Quote:
it doesn't add an element of planning at all
Well, good. Then there's no problem. You don't have to think about what to bring, so the lack of cargo doesn't particularly affect you. Meanwhile, for those who do plan, they reap the benefits of a more efficient op.

Put another way: your steadfast refusal to plan ahead doesn't mean the element is not there, and this entire thread is just another refusal of wanting to deal with the consequences of that lack of planning.
Quote:
it doesn't reward fleets for being disciplined and organised
…aside from letting those fleets that are disciplined and organised minimise the amount of work required and maximise the amount of ore pulled from the belt. If they're organised enough, the crystals become a complete non-issue.

Quote:
none of it is fun, interesting or better. you're pissing off the haulers by giving them extra and pointless work
Lol Like I said, it benefits the disciplined fleet. They'll feel that it's neither extra nor pointless work — it's just yet another thing they can do to benefit the op.

Quote:
and having to warp in and out of a belt because i can't carry enough crystals just wastes my time.
Seeing as how you have to warp in and out of the belt anyway, no time is wasted.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2012-07-31 21:32:57 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

and when the skiff or mack gets the yield of a hulk, i will. not that your comment is in any way related to the conversation.

Considering you are trying to force the hulk to overlap into another ships role by lamenting its cargo limitations instead of using the other ship makes it perfectly relevant.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#159 - 2012-07-31 21:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
how does this change make mining more fun, interesting, better, or anything positive?
It gives you more options and offers more decisions — that is more fun, interesting, and better in and of itself.

It also adds an element of planning and task-managing. It also increases the rewards of socialising and running disciplined fleets. It gives you stuff to do while the lasers cycle, reducing that supposed tedium. All of it fun, interesting, and better.


I wonder why you were crying so hard about the new inventory UI.

It brings the same elements of task managing. It imposes you the same stupid ass menial tasks. It forced you to be disciplined. It gives you stuff to do while you are docked, reducing the supposed tedium. All of it fun interesting and better.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Dave stark
#160 - 2012-07-31 21:33:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
I find you weird if those two don't overlap for you.

Quote:
it doesn't add an element of planning at all
Well, good. Then there's no problem. You don't have to think about what to bring, so the lack of cargo doesn't particularly affect you. Meanwhile, for those who do plan, they reap the benefits of a more efficient op.

Quote:
it doesn't reward fleets for being disciplined and organised
…aside from letting those fleets that are disciplined and organised minimise the amount of work required and maximise the amount of ore pulled from the belt. If they're organised enough, the crystals become a complete non-issue.

Quote:
none of it is fun, interesting or better. you're pissing off the haulers by giving them extra and pointless work
Lol Like I said, it benefits the disciplined fleet. They'll feel that it's neither extra nor pointless work — it's just yet another thing they can do to benefit the op.

Quote:
and having to warp in and out of a belt because i can't carry enough crystals just wastes my time.
Seeing as how you have to warp in and out of the belt anyway, no time is wasted.


perhaps, i have fun doing more active things like going out with my friends. however i enjoy mining because i can just sit and put some music on, and chill out. y'know?

mining crystals shouldn't be an issue to begin with; ammo isn't an issue for mission runners so why should it be for miners?

they will feel it's extra and pointless work when they aren't gaining anything from it. how would you feel if your boss said you also have to work weekends for no extra pay? that's effectively what the crystal situation is, that's why nobody likes it.