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Developer Comments on Mining Crystals and Cargo Capacity?

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Pipa Porto
#461 - 2012-08-06 07:08:39 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
By the way:
DevBlog wrote:

The Covetor and Hulk cater to group mining operations due to their large mining capability, low EHP and storage, forcing them to rely on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals.
The Retriever and Mackinaw are specifically designed for autonomy purposes, as their large ore bays allow their pilot to stay inside an asteroid belt for longer without having to dock.
The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank, or NPCs, by giving a large enough buffer to react to incoming attacks, while paying for that with a lower mining yield.


Unfortunately, the Mack and Hulk have enough EHP that the Skiff's unnecessary.


You might have surprises. Look at the performance vs the costs. A complete throwaway Covetor is more efficient than a maxed Mack.


Depends how often you lose them. And since the Covetor requires someone to haul for you (or you to go switch ships), that alt or time comes out of your yield.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#462 - 2012-08-06 07:29:17 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
By the way:
DevBlog wrote:

The Covetor and Hulk cater to group mining operations due to their large mining capability, low EHP and storage, forcing them to rely on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals.
The Retriever and Mackinaw are specifically designed for autonomy purposes, as their large ore bays allow their pilot to stay inside an asteroid belt for longer without having to dock.
The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank, or NPCs, by giving a large enough buffer to react to incoming attacks, while paying for that with a lower mining yield.


Unfortunately, the Mack and Hulk have enough EHP that the Skiff's unnecessary.


You might have surprises. Look at the performance vs the costs. A complete throwaway Covetor is more efficient than a maxed Mack.


Depends how often you lose them. And since the Covetor requires someone to haul for you (or you to go switch ships), that alt or time comes out of your yield.


all you lose is the time to swap to a hauler, about 60 seconds every however often you haul. an impel holds almost as much as a mackinaw.

crystals aside, a covetor is easily the best yield/cost ship now.
Pipa Porto
#463 - 2012-08-06 08:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Dave stark wrote:


all you lose is the time to swap to a hauler, about 60 seconds every however often you haul. an impel holds almost as much as a mackinaw.

crystals aside, a covetor is easily the best yield/cost ship now.


It was the best yield/cost ship before the buff, too. But when I suggest that people deal with ganks by using the cheaper ship, I get my head bitten off.

Anyway, the Exhumer/Mining Barge choice depends entirely on how often you expect to lose them.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#464 - 2012-08-06 10:51:29 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


all you lose is the time to swap to a hauler, about 60 seconds every however often you haul. an impel holds almost as much as a mackinaw.

crystals aside, a covetor is easily the best yield/cost ship now.


It was the best yield/cost ship before the buff, too. But when I suggest that people deal with ganks by using the cheaper ship, I get my head bitten off.

Anyway, the Exhumer/Mining Barge choice depends entirely on how often you expect to lose them.


the difference is that the gap is smaller between the two ships now. making it less of an issue dropping yield from the hulk.
tigger digger
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#465 - 2012-08-06 13:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: tigger digger
Well, this is definitely going to cut into my mining output. Going from 19k m3 capacity to 8500 m3 capacity on my hulk is going to suck.
Dave Stark
#466 - 2012-08-06 13:21:06 UTC
tigger digger wrote:
Well, this is definitely going to cut into my mining output. Going from 19k m3 capacity to 8500 m3 capacity on my hulk is going to suck.


no it won't. mackinaw.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#467 - 2012-08-06 13:34:20 UTC
tigger digger wrote:
Well, this is definitely going to cut into my mining output. Going from 20k m3 capacity to 8500 m3 capacity on my hulk is going to suck.

Move into a 3x MLU Mackinaw then. It has a 35,000 m3 ore hold .

[Mackinaw, BIG]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II
Supplemental EM Ward Amplifier
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Mining Drone II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#468 - 2012-08-06 13:36:46 UTC
tigger digger wrote:
Well, this is definitely going to cut into my mining output. Going from 19k m3 capacity to 8500 m3 capacity on my hulk is going to suck.



Swap to a Mackinaw then. 37,500m^3 ore capacity should rock for you.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Pipa Porto
#469 - 2012-08-06 20:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


all you lose is the time to swap to a hauler, about 60 seconds every however often you haul. an impel holds almost as much as a mackinaw.

crystals aside, a covetor is easily the best yield/cost ship now.


It was the best yield/cost ship before the buff, too. But when I suggest that people deal with ganks by using the cheaper ship, I get my head bitten off.

Anyway, the Exhumer/Mining Barge choice depends entirely on how often you expect to lose them.


the difference is that the gap is smaller between the two ships now. making it less of an issue dropping yield from the hulk.


I didn't notice the bump to 4%/level. Funnily enough, it'll take Exhumers 2 before the Hulk mines better than the Covetor.

It's still the best yield/cost ratio without that. The Hulk has 15% more yield for Ten Times the price. So if a Hulk makes 30m ISK/Hr, the Covetor makes 26m ISK/hr*, and it takes about 60 hours to recoup the difference between them.

*Lower income estimates make the payoff for a Hulk take longer.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#470 - 2012-08-06 21:27:25 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


all you lose is the time to swap to a hauler, about 60 seconds every however often you haul. an impel holds almost as much as a mackinaw.

crystals aside, a covetor is easily the best yield/cost ship now.


It was the best yield/cost ship before the buff, too. But when I suggest that people deal with ganks by using the cheaper ship, I get my head bitten off.

Anyway, the Exhumer/Mining Barge choice depends entirely on how often you expect to lose them.


the difference is that the gap is smaller between the two ships now. making it less of an issue dropping yield from the hulk.


I didn't notice the bump to 4%/level. Funnily enough, it'll take Exhumers 2 before the Hulk mines better than the Covetor.

It's still the best yield/cost ratio without that. The Hulk has 15% more yield for Ten Times the price. So if a Hulk makes 30m ISK/Hr, the Covetor makes 26m ISK/hr*, and it takes about 60 hours to recoup the difference between them.

*Lower income estimates make the payoff for a Hulk take longer.


look at any mmo, the closer you get to "optimal" or "best" the cost in whatever game currency there is incrases exponentially. you'll always pay peanuts for a 100% increase when you're low down the food chain (eg going from an osprey to a current retriever) than going from "almost the best" to "the best".

however with the covetor getting the 4% bonus making the difference smaller it's now more viable to "downsize" i probably will myself for a while. between all the tech nerf speculation, mining barge change speculation, and my plans to be elsewhere i'll buy rets/covs instead of macks/hulks until i've got a bit more isk behind me.
Pipa Porto
#471 - 2012-08-07 01:25:45 UTC
Dave stark wrote:


look at any mmo, the closer you get to "optimal" or "best" the cost in whatever game currency there is incrases exponentially. you'll always pay peanuts for a 100% increase when you're low down the food chain (eg going from an osprey to a current retriever) than going from "almost the best" to "the best".

however with the covetor getting the 4% bonus making the difference smaller it's now more viable to "downsize" i probably will myself for a while. between all the tech nerf speculation, mining barge change speculation, and my plans to be elsewhere i'll buy rets/covs instead of macks/hulks until i've got a bit more isk behind me.


What are you onto now? I'm just pointing out that the Covetor has always been the most cost effective mining ship. People didn't use them because most miners get a hard on for having the maximum yield possible and entirely discount the possibility of losing their ship. That's why they get so upset when they lose it, because they never even considered the possibility, so the loss comes as a massive shock.

Assuming a Hulk Yield of 30m/hr, the Covetor now yields 26m/hr, and after the buff will yield 27m/hr.
With a 230m price difference, that works out to a payback of ~60hrs now and 76hrs post buff.

The buff is only giving you an extra million isk/hr. Again, lower Hulk isk/hr makes for a smaller difference.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#472 - 2012-08-07 08:00:51 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:


What are you onto now?


i have no idea. don't even remember making that post.
Pipa Porto
#473 - 2012-08-07 08:05:24 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


What are you onto now?


i have no idea. don't even remember making that post.


Drunk posting best posting. I was wondering why we were going in that specific little circle.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#474 - 2012-08-07 08:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Pipa Porto wrote:
What are you onto now? I'm just pointing out that the Covetor has always been the most cost effective mining ship. People didn't use them because most miners get a hard on for having the maximum yield possible and entirely discount the possibility of losing their ship. That's why they get so upset when they lose it, because they never even considered the possibility, so the loss comes as a massive shock.

Assuming a Hulk Yield of 30m/hr, the Covetor now yields 26m/hr, and after the buff will yield 27m/hr.
With a 230m price difference, that works out to a payback of ~60hrs now and 76hrs post buff.

The buff is only giving you an extra million isk/hr. Again, lower Hulk isk/hr makes for a smaller difference.

So you're saying people should feel dirty because they're exploiting the miners' hard on ... (for maximum yield, but still).

Maybe some day, the exhumers etc will look like freighters, except it will have one, two or three high slots. All the lows and mids are just decided on for you by CCP who bakes in whatever they feel is right.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pipa Porto
#475 - 2012-08-07 08:41:59 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
What are you onto now? I'm just pointing out that the Covetor has always been the most cost effective mining ship. People didn't use them because most miners get a hard on for having the maximum yield possible and entirely discount the possibility of losing their ship. That's why they get so upset when they lose it, because they never even considered the possibility, so the loss comes as a massive shock.

Assuming a Hulk Yield of 30m/hr, the Covetor now yields 26m/hr, and after the buff will yield 27m/hr.
With a 230m price difference, that works out to a payback of ~60hrs now and 76hrs post buff.

The buff is only giving you an extra million isk/hr. Again, lower Hulk isk/hr makes for a smaller difference.

So you're saying people should feel dirty because they're exploiting the miners' hard on ... (for maximum yield, but still).

Maybe some day, the exhumers etc will look like freighters, except it will have one, two or three high slots. All the lows and mids are just decided on for you by CCP who bakes in whatever they feel is right.


Absolutely not. I'm saying the miners should feel silly that they didn't consider that they might lose their ship in a game that explicitly allows violence anywhere.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#476 - 2012-08-07 08:45:17 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


What are you onto now?


i have no idea. don't even remember making that post.


Drunk posting best posting. I was wondering why we were going in that specific little circle.


i'm rarely drunk. sleep posting is where it's at.