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So CCP, when are you fixing the idiotic station Whack-a-mole "PVP"ing?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2012-07-30 20:44:59 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
The only real question here is, why CCP aloud any one to use/abuse, exploit openly every game mechanic just to pave stupid unbrained risk aversion pussies kill board with station undocking kills?
Ugh

What does this even mean?!
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-07-30 21:07:13 UTC
Stations should blast you to hell when you fire up your guns nearby. Your silly private war shouldn't matter to them.

That would be the logical thing to do.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-07-30 21:10:48 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.

People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.

For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!

Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.

Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.

P.S. in real life if you are being shot at you can in fact run through a doorway and close the door.



You can always undock and redock before your undock invulnerability wears off.
Freezehunter
#24 - 2012-07-30 21:20:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.

People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.

For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!

Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.

Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.

P.S. in real life if you are being shot at you can in fact run through a doorway and close the door.



You can always undock and redock before your undock invulnerability wears off.



If you are the Captain of an 80 meter frigate IRL and you try to enter a shipyard or dry dock while you are being torpedoed and bombed and shot to hell with artillery, you will not make it in a million years even if you manage to "dock", and you wouldn't even try to in the first place.

Not to mention that Scotty, the docking manager would estimate a "**** you" instead of a docking timer because you just got his dock shot to hell.

Should be the same in Eve.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#25 - 2012-07-30 21:25:03 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.

People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.

For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!

Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.

Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.

P.S. in real life if you are being shot at you can in fact run through a doorway and close the door.



You can always undock and redock before your undock invulnerability wears off.



If you are the Captain of an 80 meter frigate IRL and you try to enter a shipyard or dry dock while you are being torpedoed and bombed and shot to hell with artillery, you will not make it in a million years even if you manage to "dock", and you wouldn't even try to in the first place.

Should be the same in Eve.


You miss my point. Then they would not undock, they would not even log in. Why would that be an improvement?

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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#26 - 2012-07-30 21:27:27 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.

People undock to see if the camp is in place. If it is, they re-dock. Lets say we changed the game so they could not do that.

For example, say warp disruptors and scrams prevented docking, and to balance that it was possible to look out the window of a station to see whats out there. Two changes that balance each other. What would those camped in do? Look and see if its safe. If its not, do not undock. Now the campers just sit doing nothing. Fun Times!

Lets say we just had warp disruptors and scrams prevent docking, but no looking out the window. The camped-in would use a neutral alt to take a look, and not even log in their main unless it was safe.

Eventually it all cones down to: You cannot force someone to log in.

P.S. in real life if you are being shot at you can in fact run through a doorway and close the door.



You can always undock and redock before your undock invulnerability wears off.



If you are the Captain of an 80 meter frigate IRL and you try to enter a shipyard or dry dock while you are being torpedoed and bombed and shot to hell with artillery, you will not make it in a million years even if you manage to "dock", and you wouldn't even try to in the first place.

Should be the same in Eve.


I think the real issue at hand is giving the guy who undocks an alternative to spawning right on top of his would-be aggressor.

If you are given options, then you can say that undocking should be the equivalent of jumping through a stargate. It is actually more dangerous for a covert ship to undock than to jump through a gate because the aggressor knows where your ship spawns.
El Cid Campeador
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-07-30 21:35:55 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
El Cid Campeador wrote:
What you are asking for would cripple small corps. Bigger corps always wardeccing them. They know where the smaller corps mainly stay, sit camp, kill after kill after kill. small corps can only lose from this.


If by small corps you mean one ******* and his 5 alts making his griefing corp just to wardec people because he is being paid to do so, then good.

If you ask me, corps that have under 10 members should be automatically disbanded after a week or two to avoid the creation of such corps.
Also, the character that started said corp should be put on a 1-6 month "new corporation creation" cooldown.

If you don't get enough members to make a proper corp within the first 1-4 weeks, then it should just die.

We have way too many 1-5-10 man corps in this game whose only purpose is tax evasion and griefing war decs.



By smaller corps I mean, corps being led by a few experienced pilots, but teaching a bunch of nubs (like me). being forced to fight corps who can field an equal number of ships (but obviously more experienced) would cripple us. Like people have mentioned, people camping near stations shouldn't even be allowed at all (getting shot by concord, or station defenses). Gets rid of the docking/undocking problem altogether.
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-07-30 21:46:27 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
A year ago, a guy was paid by another guy to wardec every corp I joined for 3 months in a row, and guess what, I could not do jack **** about it because every time I went after the bastard, he would just play ******** undock games with me for hours on end until I got so bored of not being to do anything about it that I just quit the game for 6 months out of frustration, because I cannot justify paying for a game that I cannot defend myself from assholes in because they are exploiting a dumb game mechanic.

Sounds like the merc did a damn good job and the guy who hired him got his money's worth.

What's his name, I might hire him just for the lols.
Freezehunter
#29 - 2012-07-30 21:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Whar Target wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
A year ago, a guy was paid by another guy to wardec every corp I joined for 3 months in a row, and guess what, I could not do jack **** about it because every time I went after the bastard, he would just play ******** undock games with me for hours on end until I got so bored of not being to do anything about it that I just quit the game for 6 months out of frustration, because I cannot justify paying for a game that I cannot defend myself from assholes in because they are exploiting a dumb game mechanic.

Sounds like the merc did a damn good job and the guy who hired him got his money's worth.

What's his name, I might hire him just for the lols.


Not really, he explicitly told me that he was getting paid if he got kills, which he didn't because he sucked ass and could never break my tank.

And that's not called a Merc, it's called griefing ******, just like people who think that suicide ganking miners is a skill heavy and worthy of respect activity or something.

A Merc is a player who is a part of a corporation with more than one human player in it, that specializes in small gang warfare.
What that guy was doing was griefing with his 4 crappy alts who probably don't have as many SP as I have between all of them.

His only way of killing me would have been catching me in a hauler or mission ship, which he did not.

What really pisses me off about this game sometimes is that this form of obvious targeted griefing / harassment is totally supported by the game rules (I petitioned for harassment but was basically told to HTFU), but if you call someone a ****** you get banned for 2 weeks.

We either HTFU on all fronts of stop being hypocrites, YES CCP?

Double standards as always.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#30 - 2012-07-30 21:54:18 UTC
as someone else stated. the solution, to any changes in the current mechanics, that a player would apply, would be to have an npc alt, same account or otherwise, check the station undock for you. as many do already. there's no preventing someone from using all 3 of their accounts character slots, i mean, we are given 3 for a reason.

also, to the suggestion that you must have at least 10 players in said corp before it becomes legit. the same above would apply as well. someone with 3 accounts can bring 15 players to the corp to pad the numbers.

really, being forced to die because you undocked and someone shot at you isn't really fair. Especially if you are the victime (defender) of a war dec. People should still be able to play the game if they find themselves in a pickle.
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#31 - 2012-07-30 21:57:54 UTC
That's easy! CCP should just make stations have 1 entrance and 1 exit. When you undock you come out of the exit and to dock you have to fly all the way around the station to the entrance. When you warp to the station, you warp to the entrance.
Freezehunter
#32 - 2012-07-30 21:59:35 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
as someone else stated. the solution, to any changes in the current mechanics, that a player would apply, would be to have an npc alt, same account or otherwise, check the station undock for you. as many do already. there's no preventing someone from using all 3 of their accounts character slots, i mean, we are given 3 for a reason.

also, to the suggestion that you must have at least 10 players in said corp before it becomes legit. the same above would apply as well. someone with 3 accounts can bring 15 players to the corp to pad the numbers.

really, being forced to die because you undocked and someone shot at you isn't really fair. Especially if you are the victime (defender) of a war dec. People should still be able to play the game if they find themselves in a pickle.


Yes, but that would require way more effort than the double click bullshit we have now, and it would also make CCP more money because you'd need to have 4-5 active accounts to bypass the 10 character lower limit.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Freezehunter
#33 - 2012-07-30 22:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
MinefieldS wrote:
That's easy! CCP should just make stations have 1 entrance and 1 exit. When you undock you come out of the exit and to dock you have to fly all the way around the station to the entrance. When you warp to the station, you warp to the entrance.


A VERY good idea!

They are going to redo all stations and V3 them, they might as well make all stations have the exit on the bottom and the entrance on top, and you can only dock at the station by being within a few KM of the docking point.

That would be perfect actually!

Warping to station at 0 would land you within the dock range on top.
Warping to station within anything over 10k would land you somewhere at the middle.
Undocking would only spawn you on the bottom.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-07-30 22:00:53 UTC
OP have you actually thought the ramifications your idea would have on the small corporations or new players who are targeted in the same way you described? That the change you suggest would be far worse for the target of such griefers than for the griefers themselves?

Let's consider a typical scenario,

Newbie gets wardecced by some bottom feeding high sec carebe..er mercenary corp like the Orphanage,

Said newbie undocks from Jita 4 4 into the waiting arms of an orphanage gate camp complete with it's requisite 2 to 1 neutral logi to combat ship ratio and sensor boosted interceptors,

Current system
Newbie sees all the red flashies waits out timer and re-docks. Then either logs out or calls for friends to break the camp.

OPs proposed system
Newbie undocks see's mass of flashies tries to dock as the insta locking inties agress him and newbie is now in a pod which is rapidly targeted and popped as well.

What you are asking for would actually result in a massive advantage being given to the very people you are so mad about.

Now as to the problem that caused all your grief in the first place the best way to deal with someone who's chasing you around with a wardec in the such a way as you described, is to go to low or null sec because your typical bottom feeding highsec "Merc" is just as afraid of null and low as the average carebear is.
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-07-30 22:02:57 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
MinefieldS wrote:
That's easy! CCP should just make stations have 1 entrance and 1 exit. When you undock you come out of the exit and to dock you have to fly all the way around the station to the entrance. When you warp to the station, you warp to the entrance.


A VERY good idea!


this should work well because warping off station in high and lowsec without being tackled is very difficult

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never forget
Rengerel en Distel
#36 - 2012-07-30 22:06:09 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
as someone else stated. the solution, to any changes in the current mechanics, that a player would apply, would be to have an npc alt, same account or otherwise, check the station undock for you. as many do already. there's no preventing someone from using all 3 of their accounts character slots, i mean, we are given 3 for a reason.

also, to the suggestion that you must have at least 10 players in said corp before it becomes legit. the same above would apply as well. someone with 3 accounts can bring 15 players to the corp to pad the numbers.

really, being forced to die because you undocked and someone shot at you isn't really fair. Especially if you are the victime (defender) of a war dec. People should still be able to play the game if they find themselves in a pickle.


Yes, but that would require way more effort than the double click bullshit we have now, and it would also make CCP more money because you'd need to have 4-5 active accounts to bypass the 10 character lower limit.


Just because some small corps are griefer corps doesn't mean all of them are griefer corps. I'd wager > 80% of corps < 10 players are created for high sec POS setups.

Also, features and ideas is a different forum, though you'll want to calm down before posting.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-07-30 22:09:24 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
El Cid Campeador wrote:
What you are asking for would cripple small corps. Bigger corps always wardeccing them. They know where the smaller corps mainly stay, sit camp, kill after kill after kill. small corps can only lose from this.


If by small corps you mean one ******* and his 5 alts making his griefing corp just to wardec people because he is being paid to do so, then good.

If you ask me, corps that have under 10 members should be automatically disbanded after a week or two to avoid the creation of such corps.
Also, the character that started said corp should be put on a 1-6 month "new corporation creation" cooldown.

If you don't get enough members to make a proper corp within the first 1-4 weeks, then it should just die.

We have way too many 1-5-10 man corps in this game whose only purpose is tax evasion and griefing war decs.


So what you're saying is those small corps are better than your large ones. Reminds me of the guy whose 1000 man corp is scared of 1 guy.

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Pipa Porto
#38 - 2012-07-30 22:14:53 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
To clarify: I am not complaining about station camping, I am complaining that assholes can abuse this mechanic and wardec people just to go kill them while they are mining or doing missions, and when those people decide to strike back, said ******* just plays undock games with ZERO risk.


CCP has stated very clearly that wardecs are about purchasing legal targets. That is the justification they give for increasing costs for increasing target size.

Wardecing people to gank their mission and mining ships isn't something you can reasonably complain about anymore.

Station games are a pain, but you know how to fix them? Stop playing them. Instead of camping your WTs into a station, set up a bait ship in a mission pocket or belt. When they take the bait, jump them.

If your WTs stay docked up, they're not hurting you at all.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

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Freezehunter
#39 - 2012-07-30 22:22:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Pipa Porto wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
To clarify: I am not complaining about station camping, I am complaining that assholes can abuse this mechanic and wardec people just to go kill them while they are mining or doing missions, and when those people decide to strike back, said ******* just plays undock games with ZERO risk.


CCP has stated very clearly that wardecs are about purchasing legal targets. That is the justification they give for increasing costs for increasing target size.

Wardecing people to gank their mission and mining ships isn't something you can reasonably complain about anymore.

Station games are a pain, but you know how to fix them? Stop playing them. Instead of camping your WTs into a station, set up a bait ship in a mission pocket or belt. When they take the bait, jump them.

If your WTs stay docked up, they're not hurting you at all.


They are not *MY* WTs, I am theirs.

I try to play the game, have some fun, GUESS WHAT, the ******* decides to undock and come after me.

I try to go after him to make him get off my ass, GUESS WHAT, he plays docking games for ******* hours on end, and I don't have time to waste on that **** like some of the unemployed basement dwellers that play Eve 24/7.

THAT is the problem here, wasting time on doing ******** bullshit instead of having fun because of some dickhead griefer who is 100% protected when I decide to go after him.

I don't have alts, and for people like me, putting up with assholes like those is horrible because we can't do 50 things at once.

And saying that if he is docked he can't hurt me is a crap argument, because if he is docked it means I am camping him, which means I am not having fun AT ALL and I will eventually quit due to boredom.
Get why that is a problem now, and why CCP should fix that unless they want people to leave in droves due to being constantly griefed like that just because PVP is not their preferred play style?

Another good fix would be NOT allowing members of the corp that declared war to dock back up if under attack, but allow the members of the corp that was wardecced to dock after being attacked.

That way it stops people from being griefed AND makes griefers actually have to pay for being assholes, which is FAIR.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Ginger Barbarella
#40 - 2012-07-30 22:31:13 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
I was in Jita today, and I spent 3 hours on the undock


I stopped reading here.

Game companies like CCP must LOVE people like you. Lol

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