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The Battle for Kourmonen

Author
Zeric Sarain
#21 - 2012-07-30 17:08:54 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Speaking of numbers can someone post, empirically, the total number of players in Amarr Militia and the total number of players in Minmatar Militia?
I'll wait.



The stats via API show Amarr 5668, Minmatar 7389 but as all things the game can't tell who's active etc of course.

Fweddit as example doesn't have anywhere like the 600 people our corp shows, we don't kick inactive people or anything like that so we've got people that made a character and never came back in corp and lots that will come and go when bored in nullsec or high sec people like myself that come and go depending on how busy we are doing production etc.


The game can't tell who's active and that screen also does not indicate if it's just showing TLF/24IC or the sum of all pilots, Alliances included.


It's difficult to tell how active the militia is, but the chat channel for the Amarr militia has been averaging about 150-225 during peak US TZ for the past month or so and about 100 non-peak (for the month before that, the peak was about 300-350, averaging closer to 200 for US TZ). For all times except weekends (where Fweddit activity tends to drop), the Amarr militia chat channel is roughly 1/3 Fweddit members.

Weekends throw it off a bit. Nulli brings those numbers up to 350-400 peak and ~200 non-peak US TZ.

I should probably start logging this data, as I've been trying to follow it for some time, though I don't know how useful it is.
Almity
In Exile.
#22 - 2012-07-30 17:21:27 UTC
Amarr have been winning fights long before Nulli even whispered the word militia. It was not long ago the minmatar would respond to cruiser fleets with BS and logi. Now they ***** when someone has a falcon. How the tables have turned.


Its ok though, we still get some good fights and have fun. Thats what really matters right? Also if Amarr does take Kourm then Huola where will LNA move to? They can't go to Egg, I'd have way to much fun writting the blog about how Hans retreated and should have fought harder!
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-07-30 19:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Name Family Name
Almity wrote:
Amarr have been winning fights long before Nulli even whispered the word militia. It was not long ago the minmatar would respond to cruiser fleets with BS and logi. Now they ***** when someone has a falcon. How the tables have turned.





It has always been like that - I put my Amarr alt into the Militia the day FW went live - Minmatar were capturing systems so fast, CCP had to roll out a hotfix to prevent Amarr getting rolled over within a week.

0utbreak took care of most of the resistance that was left - people eventually realised plexing was entirely pointless and noone except PIE and Sasawong did it anymore. When 0utbreak left, the coin flipped immediately as all the other Minmatar Corps were used to do was following toxin gangs around and without them, got absolutely massacred for months to come - eventually, they toughened up, some Amarr corps got bored and left, etc...etc...

Since then, it has always been swaying back and forth until I left about 2-3 years ago. Something must have happened though - whilst I still see many of the Minmatar corps and Pilots that were around back then, all the prime Amarr corps have gone and despite spending the last week in the warzone, I have only seen 2 Amarr Pilots I remember from back then.

Ah - memories - not meaning to derail the thread, but it would be nice if someone could hook m up with some read up on the events that took place during the last 2 years.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#24 - 2012-07-30 20:55:22 UTC
"Two, these vulnerable systems, once under Amarr control, the Minmatar can start offensive plexing them, which would mean loyalty point gains, while the Amarr would have to defensive plex to keep them under their control..."

Or we could place a few plexing ships there and shoot you when you try to o-plex them back. After we thank you for letting us know who all your amarr alt spies are that is.

Its an often talked about idea to try to flip your own systems but I think in the end its a bad idea. By flipping the systems early that means you will no longer be able to hit tier 5. Once its clear you can no longer hit tier five all those minamatar alts plexing in caldari space will dry up and likely start plexing amarr or caldari!

Its hard to predict how this will work out in the end. But for my part I think what will happen is there will be cyclical large flips all at once. And then the side that has the system advantage will periodically hit tier 5 and do cash outs while they are in the lead.

They will want to preserve that lead as long as possible so they can continue to cash out the lp they get for pvp and the lp they get for plexing the few remaining systems. (for example minmatar could always plex sahtogas and kamela and its likely that amarr will cash out before taking every single minmatar system.)

Yes it will likely be inevitable that the tides will change again but the side that wins would be best served by defending their space through pvp as long as they can. Lots of times people confuse "defending a system" with "defensive plexing." Defensive plexing is only one way to defend a system. Most often it is the pve way. Let me explain:

Defending a system through pvp = Stop the enemy from capturing o-plexes when they try to oplex by either chasing them out or by killing them.

Defending systems through pve = letting the enemy capture o-plexes and then trying to defensive plex when they leave.

Because you don't get paid to defensive plex and it takes much longer the current mechanics favor defending your space through pvp. At the begginning of faction war minmatar were very aggressively defending systems in pvp. I would get fights in dal and kourm very quickly if I tried to plex those systems and I would often be driven out. But lately it has been more rare for minmatar to aggressively defend their systems through pvp. (to be fair I was actually driven out of huola this morning but overall this is becoming more rare)

This is one reason why so many systems are becoming vulnerable to start with. The main fight has to be to prevent the system from becoming contested and ultimately vulnerable to begin with. If your system is vulnerable its because you failed to protect it.

We all have an incentive to hold the systems as long as possible because money now is always better than money later. That is minmatar will want to stay within reach of tier 5 as long as you can because you will then be able to cash out. Once you lose he ability to hit tier 5, you know you are looking at a relatively long wait. Plus you help your allied militia quite a bit.

The big advantage to this system is that the people who actually help to regain soveriegnty get a big payday when their militia hits tier 5. Those who come later get little rewards unless they run missions (which will likely need to have their lp nerfed when ccp adjusts the plexing mechanics)

But one thing I agree on, is that it is interesting to see how this plays out. Because I do think Amarr are currently employing the best plexing strategies under the current mechanics. Amarr is proving that they can adapt pretty well. No longer are we hearing amarr complain that we are currently at tier 1. The average soldier is able to see the overall picture much better. Soon hopefully it will be the minmatar's turn to show if they can adapt to adversity and a space rich amarr militia.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Quentin Marshall
#25 - 2012-07-30 21:11:38 UTC
Cearain wrote:
lots of words...


You talk too damn much. Stop filling the forum with all these words and play the game.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#26 - 2012-07-30 21:42:55 UTC
Cearain wrote:


But one thing I agree on, is that it is interesting to see how this plays out. Because I do think Amarr are currently employing the best plexing strategies under the current mechanics. Amarr is proving that they can adapt pretty well. No longer are we hearing amarr complain that we are currently at tier 1. The average soldier is able to see the overall picture much better. Soon hopefully it will be the minmatar's turn to show if they can adapt to adversity and a space rich amarr militia.


No, they just have more numbers and more available plexes. As soon as amarr take all their systems the shoe is on the other foot. Faction war has become a pendulum of success. I just hope people remember to pvp while they are farming.
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#27 - 2012-07-30 21:59:31 UTC
Almity wrote:
Amarr have been winning fights long before Nulli even whispered the word militia. It was not long ago the minmatar would respond to cruiser fleets with BS and logi. Now they ***** when someone has a falcon. How the tables have turned.


Its ok though, we still get some good fights and have fun. Thats what really matters right? Also if Amarr does take Kourm then Huola where will LNA move to? They can't go to Egg, I'd have way to much fun writting the blog about how Hans retreated and should have fought harder!

If it happens we have plans.
You can't talk about retreat tho. You and your corp have been kicked all over lowsec.
Ur whole corp got kicked out of houla by about 5playaz

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.

Almity
In Exile.
#28 - 2012-07-30 22:16:06 UTC
Le sigh. How many times do I have to tell you we had already moved to Oto to get away from Huola! Huola is a rat infested **** hole no one wants to live in.

Besides you have yet to beat MY fleets in a fight where caps are involved Silence. Always remember that.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#29 - 2012-07-30 22:19:39 UTC
Silence iKillYouu wrote:
Almity wrote:
Amarr have been winning fights long before Nulli even whispered the word militia. It was not long ago the minmatar would respond to cruiser fleets with BS and logi. Now they ***** when someone has a falcon. How the tables have turned.


Its ok though, we still get some good fights and have fun. Thats what really matters right? Also if Amarr does take Kourm then Huola where will LNA move to? They can't go to Egg, I'd have way to much fun writting the blog about how Hans retreated and should have fought harder!

If it happens we have plans.
You can't talk about retreat tho. You and your corp have been kicked all over lowsec.
Ur whole corp got kicked out of houla by about 5playaz


Faced with overwhelming numbers (and good looks), there's no shame in making a strategic deployment to a new homesystems/base of operations.

Minmatar have held Kourm against some pretty serious attempts to take it, so it's not a matter of "lol u suck".

However if Kourm falls it will be after thousands of ships lost and destroyed, endless hours of fighting, plexing and smacktalking in local.

It shall be glorious.
Almity
In Exile.
#30 - 2012-07-30 22:23:19 UTC
I was referring to Hans's comments on how I.law retreated fom Arzad and said we should have fought harder to keep it. We did flip it but Iron Oxide flipped it back in record time. With Inferno approaching we moved to a system where we could still dock and ya know, fight minnies......
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#31 - 2012-07-30 22:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:


But one thing I agree on, is that it is interesting to see how this plays out. Because I do think Amarr are currently employing the best plexing strategies under the current mechanics. Amarr is proving that they can adapt pretty well. No longer are we hearing amarr complain that we are currently at tier 1. The average soldier is able to see the overall picture much better. Soon hopefully it will be the minmatar's turn to show if they can adapt to adversity and a space rich amarr militia.


No, they just have more numbers and more available plexes. As soon as amarr take all their systems the shoe is on the other foot. Faction war has become a pendulum of success. I just hope people remember to pvp while they are farming.


Yes when they run out of plexes in Minmatar space all the farmers can move to Galentte space just like Minmatar moved to Caldari space and you guys can have fun with the 100's of 2 day old Amarr Militia alts in stabbed Merlins..
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-07-30 23:11:44 UTC
It's not like we don't deal with 100s of caldari alts in stabbed merlins already. Just new nameless faces I guess.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#33 - 2012-07-31 00:41:47 UTC
Quentin Marshall wrote:
Cearain wrote:
lots of words...


You talk too damn much. Stop filling the forum with all these words and play the game.



Not posting with your main anymore?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#34 - 2012-07-31 02:25:09 UTC
Almity wrote:
Le sigh. How many times do I have to tell you we had already moved to Oto to get away from Huola! Huola is a rat infested **** hole no one wants to live in.

Besides you have yet to beat MY fleets in a fight where caps are involved Silence. Always remember that.

I will solo your cap fleet

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.

Braitai
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-07-31 04:21:49 UTC
Salicaz wrote:
The problem has never been the pvp. The minmitar were gifted with unbalanced rats etc from the start. The thing we couldn't compete with was the farmers you all had dictating where we could dock.

The pvp is happening, and numbers are more balanced since all the systems are vunerable there is nowhere left for all the alts to farm. Thus most have left/joined amarr.

The wheel of FW continues to turn, albiet retardedly now and driven by null alts.


Plex farmers and unbalanced rats may have made a difference to the overall WZ, but specific system like kourm/auga/huola came down to the number of effective combat ships over the course of the day. We took advantage of the pre-inferno mechanics and our superior combat- ready numbers to take those system, it had nothing to do with farming alts. As for post-inferno mechanics, well, that just means you need to maintain superior numbers for a longer period of time.

There's always been a kind of ebb and flow to FW in terms of dominance. Personally, I don't see a great deal of skill difference overall between Amarr and Minmatar overall. There are some exceptional pilots and groups of pilots on both sides, and some differences in tactics but overall it is just a numbers game. Even without Nulli joining it was clear that we were definitely outnumber in at least some TZ's, if not overall. The push you made on Kourm a month or so ago got pretty close to taking it on your own. Factor in Nulli and Amarr t5 is pretty much a certainty.

Personally, I don't like the fact that FW is attracting so much attention, CCP messed with our fight club. Making it a profit making endeavour wasn't the best idea tbh, some sort of reimbursement system would have been more in the spirit of FW.
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#36 - 2012-07-31 06:47:55 UTC
did ccp realize they created blobfest farmville for hordes of alts ? btw very effective defence is dualbox and use cheap alts in militia to sit on buttons as scouts while u pvp. altfarming advanced.
Loki Vice
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-07-31 07:31:10 UTC
KOURMONEN HAS FALLEN
Lexmana
#38 - 2012-07-31 07:36:21 UTC
Amarr Victor!
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#39 - 2012-07-31 08:00:17 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Amarr Victor!

i am such a fail .... just got my alt into one of the minnie alliances ... crap
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#40 - 2012-07-31 08:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Hidden Snake wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Amarr Victor!

i am such a fail .... just got my alt into one of the minnie alliances ... crap


The minnies just hit T5 again 30 minutes ago - there's plenty of ISK to be made.

The funny part is watching all the carebears complain about slipping to T4. Every other militia would LOVE to have the ability to hit T4 with the ease of the minmatar.

"Time ot make an amarr alt" was what a lot were saying at 79.8% :D:D:D
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