Intergalactic Summit

An immediate source would be the official historical overview of New Eden's major events, old Jovian calendar date 21355, approximately 195 years ago the Jove cut ties... Records originally recorded by the Gallente and the Caldari themselves... I am sure there are more detailed histories available in both the pertinent nations, though, each may have a nationalistic slant attached. The pod technology was bestowed upon the Caldari approximately 173 years ago.

It proves that you are being selective and circumspect in the "facts" you choose to use in your argument, leaving your entire argument suspect.. The Jove, as far as I know, still hold the Caldari and Matari in high esteem, at least officially. And so it points to a Jovian sympathy for the aforementioned Nations. Or, perhaps they have a penchant for gambling, as do we Caldari, and like to take the long odds..

Honestly? Why even use them as a talking point, if you are as quick to dismiss them?

Arguing that the Federation might have exploited Caldari labour only works metaphorically, as the violation of its propriety perhaps. Although I liked your post, tbh it doesn't make a lot of sense economically. In fact I think the rhetoric of colonialism is awkward, not unfair but misleading in its emphasis.

The overwhelming experience of feeling or emotion in my view would have been disgust. The Caldari became disgusted by the Federation. A Federation shot through with deception and decadence, a Federation that controlled its own population by pandering to a base populist instinct, with pleasure rather than force. The fruit and flower of Federation culture bent towards manipulation. As though upon waking you discover your new lover, having metamorphosed overnight into a giant c0ckroach, is presenting a reasoned argument for increased sexual intimacy dictated by its new alien appetites. The tragedy was that this led to a kind of Caldari repression, but is it unsurprising, in the circumstances, that the Caldari became phobic?

This is one of the most interesting discussions I've read here. To be frank, what Gwen Ikiryo wrote has struck a note in me, even if most of Aria's essay seemed also true. That doesn't make me disagree with others that posted here, which only adds to the confusion. Let me share some of my feelings, in the hope that it can shed some light on what makes an Achura like me tick.

Unlike many here, I was lucky to grow up on a planet. It was beautiful - nature still had its way there, and between the greenst forests, purest sand and maiden seas you could forget at times that there were things beyond your homeworld. Growing up in a rather technical family, I was always interested in how things worked. To study them, to classify them was as natural to me as breathing.

When you are looking down from a cliff, just before you dive into the fresh, crystal clean water, you can't help but wonder at the garden that lies below the surface. It seems like paradise, if you believe in one, with its lush vegetation and richest colours imaginable. Once you break through the mirror of the water surface, and open your eyes again, that picture is still there.

Yet, it is very different from what you saw earlier. The colours are still rich, and life abundant. But you begin to see more than just those colours. You see shapes, both weird and beautiful, slick and jagged, tall and short, all going about their miraculous business. Then you see even more... That flower you thought so tender just caught a small pointy fish and pulled it into its mouth that you can clearly see now between the tentacles. And you notice that the fish was dead long before it got eaten, from the poison that 'flower' carried in its 'crown of petals'. Next you see a larger creature making its way through the open areas of seabed, searching for other, smaller things to eat.

Some adapt and grow big and strong themselves, but thus rely heavily on food and need it every day. Others depend on the collective to survive, be it for the hunt or to avoid being hunted. Some may die, but others would carry on. Yet more creatures just carve a niche for themselves and feel content with it, as long as it caters to their survival needs, accepting everything that surrounds them, adapting to it, only to find out later that they are overspecialized and incapable of feeding once their preferred prey is gone.

Suddenly, you feel the air in your lungs is spent, and it is time to make for the surface. What did you see down there, really? Was it pure beauty or pure tragedy? What is it, living like that, being both prey and the predator?

Later, when I grew up, I worked as a diplomat for a company too small to be mentioned. And I saw things. Same hunters and hunted, in a different setting. Once again, people go about their business, sometimes living in a symbiosis, other times making uneasy alliances or waging economic wars on each other. Not that much different from what I see now, as a capsuleer.

Why would I be telling you all this? Well, if the question was 'what is being Caldari like', I cannot answer. I know, I am Caldari, and I probably wouldn't want it any other way. But I can tell you what being Achura means for me. To see this lush garden, so full of life, and all it brings with itself, including competition, cooperation, death and new life again, to view this as a great pattern that is repeated all throughout the known universe, and to accept it. This is The Stream for me - follow it blindly or fight it violently, it is still stronger that me, than all of us. Learn its rules and live your life, finding happiness along the way, and one day when you look back at your life, you realize that you have changed The Stream. Even if just a little bit, still you did change it.

And then, at some point, you see that people - neighbours, friends, colleagues, that stranger you saw riding your bus to work from time to time, are The Stream themselves, not just a small part of it, but a large force of life that, if united in its direction, can alter things without too much turbulence. But any stream can carve rocks, and if not careful, those rocks may fall and block the path. I guess, that's how I view The State.

A short word about aforementioned Rights - some may not know this, but Rights are central to The State. It is the fact that they also come with certain Responsibilities attached - that might be harder to understand for some. In any case, that is a different subject and might ask for a different prequel story.

Well that introduces some much needed perspective at the very least. Even if the idea of Caldari minstrels does rather put one's teeth on edge.

That might seem so to you, but I'm not convinced that the same people that violently fought my Federation for Freedom (whatever they wanted to do with it was their decision) because of minor differences would rejoice at the thought of being obliged to follow every word of someone from outside, someone who wouldn't even ask of what they wanted.

Make no mistake, I am Gallente, and I know that Caldari are supposed to be my enemies and all that. But I have great respect for them for standing up and fighting for their Freedom. Yes, that word is as sacred to them as it is for me, and as God is for you. And I don't ever think that a foreign theocracy is what they would have had in mind had they been given a choice. I even think that your alliance with them is somewhat forced by events, and they are way closer to Matari in spirit, the only difference being birth clans vs. corporate clans.

Yes, the Caldari still fight us, over territory, among other things. But that is a mostly economical thing which is also supported by strong emotions. Too much bad blood between our peoples still there. Not the same with Minmatar. For they you are not only The Enemy, but you are The Threat. Many attribute Minmatar violence upon Amarr to vengeance. I think it is because they realize - as long as you exist, as a theocracy with your self-given mandate to take over others for your God, the matari will know no peace. And, trust me, had you met the Caldari before us, knowing how hardy, strong-wiled and independant they are, you would have probably had two wars on your hands by now.

As always, disregard this if you will, as I am merely voicing my personal opinion.

Interesting. I'm of the opinion that actually very few Caldari crave 'freedom' in the way you have described it. Very few in Caldari society are the ones making decisions. The are incredibly "Top-Down" in their organization in the same way as the Amarr. Decisions for many are made by a few at the top, in this way we are quite similar.

I don't say they would make such an excellent addition to the Empire lightly; I truly feel once they commit they do so with the entirety of their society and all of their resources. It's nearly religious in its devotional nature to seeing goals met by the actions of the collective. Sound familiar?

Many current members of the Empire were not conquered so much as made the collective decision to join as a society and a culture, and have been among out most valued members.

The desire to belong, to contribute, to see the success of the larger collective, all things the Empire encourages and the Caldari are exceptional because of.

Cpt. Jenneth,

if I read what you write it makes me sad. Apparently you either forgot about the conversations we had or you deem me to be in spiritual crisis or having ended all our conversations with: "Well, happily, God exists, and all of this is according to His design, so it's all just fine. You'll learn in time." Also, me implying by this that you'll be duly conquered and enslaved.

You implied that the Amarr, in general, are incapable of critical thinking. (The Amarr are probably past dissuading; they will not accept their God and his Kingdom as "small truths" however hard I try to paint the picture that way for them. The Gallente, however, have a frequently-demonstrated capacity for critical thought.) That none of us question whether God exists or no.

You'd be surprised.

Empirical studies show that the usual Amarr has about two to three life-crisis-events in his or her life and on average in one of those the existence of God is questioned. Though most Amarr are indeed incapable of systematic theological reflection on this, it's not at all the case that most Amarr run for Sabikism once they are hit by this crisis: Most of them stay with or return to the flock and usually with a deepened faith. Oftentimes such an event is what prompts someone to start the studies of theology.

Theology itself, by the way, isn't limited to critically examine bits and pieces of Scripture. The fundamental part of theology - called fittingly fundamental theology - deals with the fundaments of the Amarrian religion and thus questions the existence of God. As I concede that the aim here is apologetic, the consensus is that one has to engage the position one wants to argue against in it's strongest possible version. We call this the 'principle of charity' - and you might want to acquaint yourself with it. Therefore, there are theologians who specialize in formulating as strong as possible arguments against the existence of God.

In fact, the strongest arguments I've seen against God's existence stem from Amarrian theologians (and philosophers of religion), as they actually respond to the counters the other theologians bring up. I'm at the moment myself contributing to counter one of the newest arguments against God in the theological journals of Hedion - the mother and cradle of all critical thinking within the Empire and an highly esteemed institution with a reputation that does even let the UoC pale in comparison.

Also, the study of theology is open to every subject of the Empire and - along the military career - a prime way that allows for social mobility. So, it's not at all the aristocracy doing all the thinking here.

So, your implication that Amarrians pride themselves on their irrational religiosity is only showing how your irrational fear of it colors your perception of it. Suddenly it should be irrational if the Amarr who struggles with his faith consults a theologian, while it's quite rational for the citizen of the state to ask an expert if he has a problem with something he's not well versed in?

We Amarr are proud of our theological tradition and, yes, we claim it to be a tradition of reason. No other intellectual and spiritual tradition has put as much effort into engaging in a concerted and systematical examination of the foundations of religion and faith and shed as much light onto these things as Amarrian theology did. Amarrian theology and thus religion is steeped in rational and above and beyond that reasonable dialogue, a dialogue that can't and doesn't stop at questioning the core fundamentals of itself.

Apologetics necessitates us to be the harshest critics of our own position. Well, except for those critics that leave the bounds of reasoned argument of course.

Then, indeed, theologians involved in apologetics rarely become capsuleers. They, understandably, have another calling in life. So, your run ins with Amarr - as amusing as they might be in some cases - have anecdotal relevance at best. If you want to judge the Amarr, you better don't depend on an induction based on the few persons you met.

I responded to this issue in great length because I feel the same pain that Cpt. Amith feels if one misrepresents what Amarrians and our religion is like. I also hope it will be prompted by my words to think a bit more and inform yourself before the unavoidable 'small truths of the Amarr' treatise will hit us. Also, you might see that you should let go of your fear of the Amarrian when you try to understand them, or else it will color all you see in ways that are distorting the picture. And last, but not least, you might take from my words here the admonition, that your own 'small truth' is that only the Achura strive for the 'great truth' and all the others cling to their 'little truths' like children to their mother's lap.

May light shine upon your path!

Faithfully,
N. Mithra

You amuse me, Cpt. Morrel. How does the saying go? Even God is fond of a good joke.

Now lets get back to the matter at hand. I'm sure if Cpt. Jenneth deems my defense of how the Amarr understand their engagement with religion and faith to be ideology and advertisement, her answer will be a sufficently short one.

I don't have the time to write a lengthy reply as I'd like to, I have a conference meeting with my employees working colonies that aren't producing anything at the moment, but I take issue with your assertion that the Gallente's free wheeling nature allowed them to be first in space. The reason for this is quite obvious. The inhospitable Caldari home world is not exactly an incubator for the growth of space faring nations, unlike the Gallente's lush planet. It is, however, a crucible fit to create a nation tough enough to stand the tests of time.