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How to make a profit from mining in nullsec without transporting?
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fdk trade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-07-29 06:06:24 UTC
We have a 20 people team mining with prefect booster and in a safe place.But there are two problems:
1.We dont have enough transports to deliver high-end minerals to high sec.
2.Thus we are in ISK crisis : no ore trade and no income,only high-end minerals.

If mining low-end minerals,we have to cut down miner's income.None of us expect that.

Anyone has any ideas?

Thank you with all my heart.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-07-29 06:24:50 UTC
Pair up with your alliance's JF pilots, split the profits.
fdk trade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-29 06:33:48 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Pair up with your alliance's JF pilots, split the profits.

Thank you for reply.
You mean we better insist on mining high-end?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-07-29 06:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
fdk trade wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Pair up with your alliance's JF pilots, split the profits.

Thank you for reply.
You mean we better insist on mining high-end?


I don't know anything about mining, I can't give you a qualified answer. I know quite a bit about nullsec logistics, and I understood your question as asking about moving minerals from nullsec to highsec to sell. I believe I have answered that.

Which particular ore is the most profitable to mine depends on market prices, your JF pricing scheme, method of mineral compression used and the cost of it, etc.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#5 - 2012-07-29 06:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Emma Royd
Seriously?

What did you expect in nullsec, the Mineral Fairies would magically transport your minerals to empire for you?

You have a few choices depending on your situation.


  • Build stuff and sell it on the local market for profit, but that takes time, access to factory slots, and blueprints up there, along with management.
  • Does any other corp in the area build stuff? Ask them if they'll buy the minerals, I know when I used to be in nullsec, the corp I was in had a buy back program and it was normally jita -10(ish)%
  • Get friendly with the Jump Freighter Pilots as Abdiel says, and get them to move it down to empire for you, it'll cost you fuel and maybe some extra isk.
  • Read up about mineral compression, ie build modules that take up less space than the minerals they're build from, there's no one module that is perfect, it depends on the minerals you've got. Try looking at http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/compression/
  • I used to have a spreadsheet which gave me the mineral volume compared to the volume of the compressed ore, but I can't find it, but look at making one, it's easy enough to do, so if you've got a rorqual then see which ores are better transported down to empire as minerals or which are better as compressed ores.

Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-07-29 06:56:28 UTC
Read this chart and understand it: http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

If you aren't mining Ark, everything is nearly tied. Low-ends and high-ends are equally valuable.

Perfect Orca+Perfect Hulk (+3% implant) yields about 160k m3/hour of ore

Ark is 44m/hour
Scordite and Bistot are both 34m/hour or so.
Plagioclase is 33m/hour.
The next 5 are about 30m/hour
Kernite and Crokite are the lowest reasonable ones at 27m/h and 29m/h.
Omber, Gneiss, and Spodumain should be avoided at about 15m/h each.
Mercoxit is at about 34m/h for the Skiff pilot.

So, really, you aren't losing out much by mining the "low ends" unless you pick Omber, Gneiss, or Spodumain.

Good luck!

Drox
fdk trade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-07-29 07:01:03 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
fdk trade wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Pair up with your alliance's JF pilots, split the profits.

Thank you for reply.
You mean we better insist on mining high-end?


I don't know anything about mining, I can't give you a qualified answer. I know quite a bit about nullsec logistics, and I understood your question as asking about moving minerals from nullsec to highsec to sell. I believe I have answered that.

Which particular ore is the most profitable to mine depends on market prices, your JF pricing scheme, method of mineral compression used and the cost of it, etc.


Almost as you said.I want to find the best way to make a profit via mining team.
fdk trade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-07-29 07:13:44 UTC
Emma Royd wrote:
Seriously?

What did you expect in nullsec, the Mineral Fairies would magically transport your minerals to empire for you?

You have a few choices depending on your situation.


  • Build stuff and sell it on the local market for profit, but that takes time, access to factory slots, and blueprints up there, along with management.
  • Does any other corp in the area build stuff? Ask them if they'll buy the minerals, I know when I used to be in nullsec, the corp I was in had a buy back program and it was normally jita -10(ish)%
  • Get friendly with the Jump Freighter Pilots as Abdiel says, and get them to move it down to empire for you, it'll cost you fuel and maybe some extra isk.
  • Read up about mineral compression, ie build modules that take up less space than the minerals they're build from, there's no one module that is perfect, it depends on the minerals you've got. Try looking at http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/compression/
  • I used to have a spreadsheet which gave me the mineral volume compared to the volume of the compressed ore, but I can't find it, but look at making one, it's easy enough to do, so if you've got a rorqual then see which ores are better transported down to empire as minerals or which are better as compressed ores.


Thank you for reply.
Yeah I considered building tech 1 production.In fact we need low-end minerals. If we mine low-end ore,miners get less wages.
fdk trade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-07-29 07:16:48 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Read this chart and understand it: http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

If you aren't mining Ark, everything is nearly tied. Low-ends and high-ends are equally valuable.

Perfect Orca+Perfect Hulk (+3% implant) yields about 160k m3/hour of ore

Ark is 44m/hour
Scordite and Bistot are both 34m/hour or so.
Plagioclase is 33m/hour.
The next 5 are about 30m/hour
Kernite and Crokite are the lowest reasonable ones at 27m/h and 29m/h.
Omber, Gneiss, and Spodumain should be avoided at about 15m/h each.
Mercoxit is at about 34m/h for the Skiff pilot.

So, really, you aren't losing out much by mining the "low ends" unless you pick Omber, Gneiss, or Spodumain.

Good luck!

Drox


Help me a lot. thank you.
Haffsol
#10 - 2012-07-29 07:28:54 UTC
hmm.... sorry how's that you found youself in this situation? I mean did you bring 20 pilots to live out in null with no clue about the logistic aspects?

Quote:
.....and in a safe place


20 clueless people mining in null in a safe place? holy gisus!!!
Dave stark
#11 - 2012-07-29 07:29:03 UTC
sell them on the local market; if you're not going to transport them anywhere you have nowhere else to sell them. i fail to see how this is even a question...
fdk trade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-07-29 07:49:59 UTC
Haffsol wrote:
hmm.... sorry how's that you found youself in this situation? I mean did you bring 20 pilots to live out in null with no clue about the logistic aspects?

Quote:
.....and in a safe place


20 clueless people mining in null in a safe place? holy gisus!!!


There was a corp nearby buying high-ends.
fdk trade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-07-29 08:02:53 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
sell them on the local market; if you're not going to transport them anywhere you have nowhere else to sell them. i fail to see how this is even a question...

Thank you for reply.
I tried that but no one bought minerals even my order is 20% low price than jita.Because there are two other mining teams in the region.The price of high-ends jumps down,so we have ISK crisis.
Haffsol
#14 - 2012-07-29 08:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Haffsol
Quote:
There was a corp

that doesn't sound too well. I'd suggest you to gtfo before someone spots you and let you understand the hard way that null sec and safe place aren't words to put too close together.

Null sec is very intersting also from an industrial stand but the logistics and all related aspects make it almost unprofitable if you don't have support from an established corp (even if just by buying your stuff). If you want to build that corp from scratch, good luck with that, really.

EDIT:
Quote:
I tried that but no one bought minerals even my order is 20% low price than jita.Because there are two other mining teams in the region.

I would like to renew my GTFO-before-it's-too-late suggestion :)
Dave stark
#15 - 2012-07-29 08:09:09 UTC
fdk trade wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
sell them on the local market; if you're not going to transport them anywhere you have nowhere else to sell them. i fail to see how this is even a question...

Thank you for reply.
I tried that but no one bought minerals even my order is 20% low price than jita.Because there are two other mining teams in the region.The price of high-ends jumps down,so we have ISK crisis.


if it's not profitable; stop doing it. again, if you are unwilling to transport it then the local market is your only option.
fdk trade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-07-29 08:24:10 UTC
Thanks for all your advices.I will take a talk with my mates.Big smile
Lord Wickham
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-07-29 12:44:33 UTC
mine the lower ends, its only a slight drop in profits and as stated above unless you have endless supply of arkonor scordite plagioglase is exactly the same isk value as bistot crokite.

my suggestion is to mine the stuff you need to build dreads/carriers once built you can jump or get them jumped to low sec relatively easy depending on your region ofc. that is if your alliance doesnt want to buy the dreads or carriers.


you need to run some numbers tbh its gona cost you isk to get your minerals jumped out, but your also going to take a slight isk loss if you start mining lower end ores which you'll need to do to build anything of worth. you should be able to work out a point in time when it becomes more profitable for you and yours miners to mine lower end ores then get your minerals jumped out.



i would say this however a jump freighter can hold 350km3(roughly), in megacyte terms if you filled the JF with it you would recieve a payout of 83billion isk. so you should most definately be able to make use of a JF pilot and if you have to pay him 100mil per run so be it, if you have a cargo worth 10bil isk its only 1% and you've already stated you've tried to sell your minerals on local market at -20% jita.


its a no brainer, pay to get your minerals jumped, just make sure you are jumping loads worth it.
DenForX
Resource Extraction Partners
#18 - 2012-07-29 17:15:34 UTC
Just don't haul that much in a single freighter in High sec unless you want to have a big old flashing sign saying "Gank me for profit". Alternatly, contract someone like Red Frog or their alternate hauling services, you may find that paying them gets the job done with an acceptable level of profit.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#19 - 2012-07-29 18:26:06 UTC
If you are bound and determined to stay out in 0.0, my advice is this:

1) Get someone trained and flying a Rorqual for the compression. Have the team all contribute towards the cost.
2) Get someone (or their alt) trained and flying a jump freighter. Have the team all contribute towards the cost. (Or higher a JF service)
3) Get a few others to be trained in and proficient with a Cyno and scouts (for protection where you land in the JF)
3) Find one of the local corps that are part of the SOV and make a deal with them for protection (or at least to leave you alone).
4) ? ?
5) Profit.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#20 - 2012-07-29 18:47:55 UTC
Hello,

Just let me know what system you're in and I'll help you get those minerals out.

-Xuixien

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
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