These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

"Excluding the Hulk " What is everyone opinion of the new barge changes.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#41 - 2012-08-02 15:12:17 UTC
Dave stark wrote:


sure it's balanced, doesn't mean it makes the skiff a worth while ship. it's still the worst exhumer out there.

That entirely depends on what you are doing with it.

I certainly wouldn't recommend it for secure fleet operations, for exactly the reason you note, but if I needed to take a mining fleet out in lowsec it would definitely be high on my list.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-08-02 15:19:17 UTC
I will be using 2 skiffs when i do a small fleet op with my alts, they yeald the same amount (before the third mlu) as the mackinaw but has a much better tank and will need less logistics as they can hold 2 of each high sec ore cyrstal

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Dave Stark
#43 - 2012-08-02 15:52:19 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


sure it's balanced, doesn't mean it makes the skiff a worth while ship. it's still the worst exhumer out there.

That entirely depends on what you are doing with it.

I certainly wouldn't recommend it for secure fleet operations, for exactly the reason you note, but if I needed to take a mining fleet out in lowsec it would definitely be high on my list.


see, you're mining in low sec.... why would any one do that?

in terms of mining, low sec is more redundant than the skiff.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#44 - 2012-08-02 20:05:35 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


sure it's balanced, doesn't mean it makes the skiff a worth while ship. it's still the worst exhumer out there.

That entirely depends on what you are doing with it.

I certainly wouldn't recommend it for secure fleet operations, for exactly the reason you note, but if I needed to take a mining fleet out in lowsec it would definitely be high on my list.


see, you're mining in low sec.... why would any one do that?

in terms of mining, low sec is more redundant than the skiff.

Lowsec is redundant in many ways, but we've got it anyway and it does have its uses.

Same with the skiff. I've found good uses for even the old skiff, the new one will have different uses.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Dave Stark
#45 - 2012-08-02 20:41:53 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


sure it's balanced, doesn't mean it makes the skiff a worth while ship. it's still the worst exhumer out there.

That entirely depends on what you are doing with it.

I certainly wouldn't recommend it for secure fleet operations, for exactly the reason you note, but if I needed to take a mining fleet out in lowsec it would definitely be high on my list.


see, you're mining in low sec.... why would any one do that?

in terms of mining, low sec is more redundant than the skiff.

Lowsec is redundant in many ways, but we've got it anyway and it does have its uses.

Same with the skiff. I've found good uses for even the old skiff, the new one will have different uses.


low sec has it's uses, mining isn't one of them.

the new skiff has uses, mining isn't one of them.

in short, low sec mining sucks and the skiff's going to be relegated to cyno bait.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#46 - 2012-08-03 00:04:58 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Dave stark wrote:


sure it's balanced, doesn't mean it makes the skiff a worth while ship. it's still the worst exhumer out there.

That entirely depends on what you are doing with it.

I certainly wouldn't recommend it for secure fleet operations, for exactly the reason you note, but if I needed to take a mining fleet out in lowsec it would definitely be high on my list.


see, you're mining in low sec.... why would any one do that?

in terms of mining, low sec is more redundant than the skiff.

Lowsec is redundant in many ways, but we've got it anyway and it does have its uses.

Same with the skiff. I've found good uses for even the old skiff, the new one will have different uses.


low sec has it's uses, mining isn't one of them.

the new skiff has uses, mining isn't one of them.

in short, low sec mining sucks and the skiff's going to be relegated to cyno bait.

It's good that you see the future so well.

I know for a fact that people can and do mine in lowsec already (you would think them fools, but they do it nonetheless).

This gives them an exhumer appropriate to the role.

It isn't what you would do. It isn't anything that I normally do, but people do it anyway.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-08-03 00:58:43 UTC
OK Dave please explain how the Skiff is worthless as a mining vessel, I am curious

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Frying Doom
#48 - 2012-08-03 01:41:02 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
OK Dave please explain how the Skiff is worthless as a mining vessel, I am curious

Yeah they suck so badly I am changing all my alts from Hulks to skiffs. On a quick play on SiSi, I easily had 86k ehp and mining about 25% below a hulk. So I don't have to worry as much about loosing a 300 mill ship. Lets face it at 300 mill a pop it really takes out of the profit margin if you get ganked.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Dave Stark
#49 - 2012-08-03 07:31:23 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
OK Dave please explain how the Skiff is worthless as a mining vessel, I am curious


for a start it has the lowest yield. the ore bay is mediocre meaning you're wasting lots of time docking up or you're jetcan mining, in addition with the removal of it's +2 warp strength if you get tackled outside of empire space then you're dead regardless of your ehp and in empire space the hulk and mackinaw [especially the mackinaw] appear to have enough ehp to deter most destroyer flying suicide gankers from even bothering.

in relation to other options the skiff is in a very weak place. i feel even some thing as simple as the +2 warp strength being returned to it would drastically increase it's value.
Dave Stark
#50 - 2012-08-03 07:31:58 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
OK Dave please explain how the Skiff is worthless as a mining vessel, I am curious

Yeah they suck so badly I am changing all my alts from Hulks to skiffs. On a quick play on SiSi, I easily had 86k ehp and mining about 25% below a hulk. So I don't have to worry as much about loosing a 300 mill ship. Lets face it at 300 mill a pop it really takes out of the profit margin if you get ganked.


yeah, you do realise the hulk is getting an ehp buff, right? and the mackinaw has even more ehp than the hulk. aand they both mine more than the skiff.
Bauloe
FBN 4893
#51 - 2012-08-03 13:23:01 UTC
it has been interesting to see that according to the CSM minutes I think that mining has dramatically increased in Low sec, stayed the same in High sec and partially increased in Null sec since the drone region nerf

With the change in Ships the Procurer will be more expensive but will be a lot of HP. allowing more conflict to happen. Before it was find hulk in low sec quick gank move on. Now it is Find a Procurer, chew away at it quickly before friends come to try save the ship. possibly opening up the battle to a 2 way fight.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-08-03 14:31:42 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
OK Dave please explain how the Skiff is worthless as a mining vessel, I am curious


for a start it has the lowest yield. the ore bay is mediocre meaning you're wasting lots of time docking up or you're jetcan mining, in addition with the removal of it's +2 warp strength if you get tackled outside of empire space then you're dead regardless of your ehp and in empire space the hulk and mackinaw [especially the mackinaw] appear to have enough ehp to deter most destroyer flying suicide gankers from even bothering.

in relation to other options the skiff is in a very weak place. i feel even some thing as simple as the +2 warp strength being returned to it would drastically increase it's value.

The only difference in mining yeald between the skiff and the mackinaw is the mackinaw can fit a 3rd mlu, other than that there base yealds are the exact same. I do agree that the +2 warp core strength is necessary to calll it a deep space mining vessel but on that same note, none of the barges have a boost to warp core strength so that is a moot point. If any of the, are cought in deep space they will pop, with the large amount of ehp you might be able to call for some back up before you die. The ore hold is not great but it is not that bad either, it is good to jump into a belt mine a couple cycles and get out, it is not a extend operation ship. One thing most dont realize is that the skiff is stilll going to be the cheapest exhumer.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Dave Stark
#53 - 2012-08-03 14:54:52 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
OK Dave please explain how the Skiff is worthless as a mining vessel, I am curious


for a start it has the lowest yield. the ore bay is mediocre meaning you're wasting lots of time docking up or you're jetcan mining, in addition with the removal of it's +2 warp strength if you get tackled outside of empire space then you're dead regardless of your ehp and in empire space the hulk and mackinaw [especially the mackinaw] appear to have enough ehp to deter most destroyer flying suicide gankers from even bothering.

in relation to other options the skiff is in a very weak place. i feel even some thing as simple as the +2 warp strength being returned to it would drastically increase it's value.

The only difference in mining yeald between the skiff and the mackinaw is the mackinaw can fit a 3rd mlu, other than that there base yealds are the exact same. I do agree that the +2 warp core strength is necessary to calll it a deep space mining vessel but on that same note, none of the barges have a boost to warp core strength so that is a moot point. If any of the, are cought in deep space they will pop, with the large amount of ehp you might be able to call for some back up before you die. The ore hold is not great but it is not that bad either, it is good to jump into a belt mine a couple cycles and get out, it is not a extend operation ship. One thing most dont realize is that the skiff is stilll going to be the cheapest exhumer.


the current skiff has the +2 warp stab, there's no reason why it should go to be honest.

the skiff is going to be the cheapest, but not by much looking at the new mineral costs. and due to how bad it is as a ship, lack of demand will push prices down even more.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-08-03 15:03:02 UTC
U agree about the +2 warp stab, the invention success rated do not seem to be changed so the hulk will go up in price even more, with lots of unsold skiffs on the market, but the loss of the +2 warp stab does not make it a worthless ship

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Bauloe
FBN 4893
#55 - 2012-08-03 21:40:58 UTC
Sten Biller wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Sten Biller wrote:
Please CCP, lower the Strip Miner yield bonus for Procurer & Skiff !
They are still MINING barges, you know?
Personally, I like the changes so far... It's good to see that mining as a profession gets alittle more love. I mean, let's face it, but becoming an efficient miner takes almost as long as becoming a lvl 4 mission runner. But, the barges/exhumers, as the only feasable ships for the profession, just didn't reflect the time and affort invested..
Even as a miner, I don't think mining should ever be as profitable as mission running; we don't face much direct attack, (aside from T2 crystals), we don't have to spend ISK for ammo, & can perma-bookmark where ever we go. Really to make that kind of money, one needs to invest into making stuff with ore... Let's face it, mining is what you can do while checking emails & watching TV at the same time.

Quote:
Procurer/Skiff: Great changes all around. Great survivability (EHP, drones), sufficient ore hold and speed, low mining yield (as intended) - My new ships of the line, as a solo miner/lvl 4 mining mission runner.

Retreiver/Mackinaw: Great ore hold, decent suvivability and mining yield, BUT too low powergrid to really use the med slots. - My second choice, will use them for high to med sec mining.

Covetor/Hulk: Great mining yield, alittle weak in all other aspects (but working as intended if used in mining fleets) - No longer interesting for a solo miner like me.
You proved exactly why the Procurer/Skiff should not get all the extra forthcoming bonuses; considering training time + hull & fitting costs, the overall "inherit desirability" should go 3rd, 2nd, 1st, not 1st, 2nd, 3rd like you have listed.

Hulk is being kept as a base line, which is fine. The lower-tiered hulls are getting new bonuses, which is great & needed IMHO. However, I think it is imbalanced to give the lowest tier a boost to make it overshadow the other more expensive (in money & time resources) ships!
edit: For reference for mining amount numbers, please see this post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1716186#post1716186



The Barges are not longer Tiers. one being better than the other. This simply leads to everyone moving to the same ship like now.
besitde the Mack has that 3rd Low slot.

So we need to step away from Yield mastery.. that i the hulks territory.
Which for different bonues like Increased Mining lazer range. for the Mack
Previous page123