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Can someone clarify to me, what the ISK/h is in 0.0, lowsec, highs?
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Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-07-28 02:42:11 UTC
Choose based on your skills, how much time you can play at once, and most importantly what you enjoy the most. They all make decent money. Missions are cool because they are always there immediately, mostly instant payment and no competition from other players to keep you from running them.

Exploration is a lot of fun when you can consistently find sites but it feels like wasted time when you go a couple hours and end up with nothing but a radar site or even nothing at all.

Faction warfare is a lot different now. You have to sit on all of your LP until your faction decides to dump lp and upgrade to t3/4. You also have to consider the time it takes to cash in all of those lp and move the ships/items. I've found FW doesn't pull quite so far ahead when you factor that in.
5nipe
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-07-28 03:43:26 UTC
Whar Target wrote:


Faction warfare is a lot different now. You have to sit on all of your LP until your faction decides to dump lp and upgrade to t3/4. You also have to consider the time it takes to cash in all of those lp and move the ships/items. I've found FW doesn't pull quite so far ahead when you factor that in.



First of all, you don't have to wait for anything. You can go to faction LP shop any time you want and cash out any number LP you have. May be it it is not the best way to execute your business plan, but nothing stops you collect LP for some time and convert them to ISK when it is most convenient moment.

But with FW you can predict your profit. Stop thinking like a gambler. Do not think how much you miss due low Tier. Think how much you make at most pessimistic rate.

Let's say I want to play tonight 3 hours. With exploration I can make couple billions or end up with almost nothing.

With FW I will probably spend 1.5 hour inside FW plexes making LP. Calculation on lowest possible rate 10.000 LP in 10 min I will make about 100.000 LP. with rate 1:1 (most likely on Tier 1) I get 100 mils. On Tier 5 I can easily cash 500 mils.

So, it is very, very predictable.

Regarding time to convert LP. Last time I had 1.2 Mil Minmatar LP. It took me 1 hour and 15 minutes to cash them at 1:6 rate on Tier 5 and actually get ISK in my valet.

But I still love exploration, especially in low sec.
Suqq Madiq
#23 - 2012-07-28 05:15:17 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:
yes, because 26 h of exploration is very large timespan. lol

does it mean that when i find a dread gurista rat in lowsec belt that drops 200mil implant i can say i have 200 mil/h from ratting? not really.

and there is no measurement of how much you can get from exploration, simply because there are other people doing the same thing, and if you are in a timezone when there's alot of people doing the same your isk ratio can't be determined. you can say how much you had from exploration in last month and calculate isk/h from your observations, but if suddenly your alliance will have a new corporation, or one corporation will leave and your alliance holds sov, your isk income from exploration will change.


You're an awfully bad troll. You completely glazed over the part where I said "Given enough data points I will have a reasonably accurate expectation of my ISK/hr." That's how statistics works, comrade. And what the hell does sov holding in nullsec have to do with exploration in High or Lowsec? I mean, other than not a goddamn thing at all.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-07-28 06:24:18 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:
and there is no measurement of how much you can get from exploration, simply because there are other people doing the same thing, and if you are in a timezone when there's alot of people doing the same your isk ratio can't be determined. you can say how much you had from exploration in last month and calculate isk/h from your observations, but if suddenly your alliance will have a new corporation, or one corporation will leave and your alliance holds sov, your isk income from exploration will change.


You can't determine isk/hr as a number that tells you what you going to earn the next hour, the isk/time ratio tells you what you can expect to earn with in the same amount of time, depending on play style and where you live the optimal time value changes.

Personally i save all loot i find from exploration and sell it once a week, and while there are good and bad weeks there are some clear patterns in the amount of isk i make.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#25 - 2012-07-28 07:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Exploited Engineer
dexington wrote:
You can't determine isk/hr as a number that tells you what you going to earn the next hour, ..


Or, in statistical terms: Exploration isk/hr has a much larger standard deviation than lv4 hisec mission isk/hr.

Regardless of this, the expected isk/hr for both activities can be calculated.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#26 - 2012-07-28 07:32:09 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
That's how statistics works, comrade.


Humans, by nature, are bad at statistics. This is why lotteries and most other forms of gambling exist.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-07-28 08:15:50 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Regardless of this, the expected isk/hr for both activities can be calculated.


It's like calculating the isk/hr of buying a lottery ticket.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Nethrun
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-07-28 09:59:24 UTC
dexington wrote:
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Regardless of this, the expected isk/hr for both activities can be calculated.


It's like calculating the isk/hr of buying a lottery ticket.



Yes, you just have to get X Y and you can easily calculate it.. How many tickets do you buy per hour, whats the chance of winning. Im not saying its accurate but if you spend enough time doing it, the drop chances will start to show a tendency or a generalization in the drop patterns. But yeah.. i know what you mean ;)
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#29 - 2012-07-28 13:16:40 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:


You're an awfully bad troll.


You know, just because someone has an opinion that differs from your own and is posted on a spaceship forum, doesn't make them a troll right?

This is a troll:

you're too dumb to know what a troll is
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#30 - 2012-07-28 13:18:02 UTC
In other news, armchair statisticians unite!
Suqq Madiq
#31 - 2012-07-28 17:41:30 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
In other news, armchair statisticians unite!


Math is hard...

When you're an idiot.
Suqq Madiq
#32 - 2012-07-28 17:42:31 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:


You're an awfully bad troll.


You know, just because someone has an opinion that differs from your own and is posted on a spaceship forum, doesn't make them a troll right?

This is a troll:

you're too dumb to know what a troll is


That's more like it. Why pretend to be something you're not?
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#33 - 2012-07-28 18:32:56 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
In other news, armchair statisticians unite!


Math is hard...

When you're an idiot.


Literally too stupid to read, aren't you?
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#34 - 2012-07-28 18:33:44 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:


That's more like it. Why pretend to be something you're not?


You do know your original troll comment wasn't even to me, right?

Goddamn, there's no end to your dumb is there?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#35 - 2012-07-28 18:44:42 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
dexington wrote:
You can't determine isk/hr as a number that tells you what you going to earn the next hour, ..


Or, in statistical terms: Exploration isk/hr has a much larger standard deviation than lv4 hisec mission isk/hr.

Regardless of this, the expected isk/hr for both activities can be calculated.


The point is that the statistical deviation is so absurdly high that the statistic is meaningless. I've had days where I found 1.5B in my second system and called it quits after 30 min of exploring and I've had days where I spent 8h scraping together ~250M.

Because the statistical deviation of exploring drops is so high, it makes any attempt to estimate an ISK/h meaningless at best. When it comes down to it, the question anyone asking about ISK/h is really asking is "if I play for 1h, how much ISK will I have". And with exploring, the answer is "you're guaranteed to find atleast 0 ISK, be happy if fortune smiles on you and you get more than 0". Because when it comes down to it, nothing is guaranteed in exploration.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#36 - 2012-07-28 18:48:47 UTC
mxzf wrote:
nothing is guaranteed in exploration.


This is the key.

With incursions/missions/belt ratting/mining, you have a guaranteed isk/hr figure that you can use.

Sure, with enough data points, you could get some relative isk/hr for exploration, but that figure is next to useless due to the random nature of exploration.
Suqq Madiq
#37 - 2012-07-28 18:52:16 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
In other news, armchair statisticians unite!


Math is hard...

When you're an idiot.


Literally too stupid to read, aren't you?


Look at you, getting your panties in a bunch.
Suqq Madiq
#38 - 2012-07-28 18:55:40 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:


That's more like it. Why pretend to be something you're not?


You do know your original troll comment wasn't even to me, right?

Goddamn, there's no end to your dumb is there?


My original comment was in response to your false assertion that you can't apply math to exploration. You can. It's easy. Please keep up, son.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#39 - 2012-07-28 19:07:02 UTC
Please keep showing us how you're too incompetent to read relevant posts.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#40 - 2012-07-28 19:08:43 UTC
Also, for the record, I don't wear underwear.