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Please explain. What is a tankable Hulk?
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Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-07-26 20:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Spaceman Jack
Still waiting Ginsing...
Or is it just that your @ss learned how to type as well as it talks?

Spaceman Jack wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
ou're an idiot first off. Second, nobody has said that current hulks can be made totally ungankable. Plus, it is a matter of you the player making a choice. If you choose not to use the tools to tank your hulk and decide you want yield instead - go ahead and do it, just be aware that you are opening yourself up for a gank.


LOL - If Im an idiot, then you take stupid to a whole new level...

As a matter of fact... YOU said, hulks could be made ungankable.
You may want to review your OWN post in this thread -
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136774&p=17

Ginseng Jita wrote:
Right, miners couldn't be troubled to fit their barges and exhumers with tanks - system all ready in place that would stop almost all ganks besides the ones that really - really - really -wanted to pop you. And you are telling us to Adapt or Die? Now that is ironic.


LOL - And yes, you still failed to answer the post correctly.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#22 - 2012-07-26 21:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Still waiting Ginsing...

Spaceman Jack wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
ou're an idiot first off. Second, nobody has said that current hulks can be made totally ungankable. Plus, it is a matter of you the player making a choice. If you choose not to use the tools to tank your hulk and decide you want yield instead - go ahead and do it, just be aware that you are opening yourself up for a gank.


LOL - If Im an idiot, then you take stupid to a whole new level...

As a matter of fact... YOU said, hulks could be made ungankable.
You may want to review your OWN post in this thread -
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136774&p=17

Ginseng Jita wrote:
Right, miners couldn't be troubled to fit their barges and exhumers with tanks - system all ready in place that would stop almost all ganks besides the ones that really - really - really -wanted to pop you. And you are telling us to Adapt or Die? Now that is ironic.


LOL - And yes, you still failed to answer the post correctly.




See...-clip- I all ready answered you.

Personal attack removed - ISD Tyrozan
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#23 - 2012-07-26 21:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
I've posted this before. 26.1k EHP. If you have a boosting orca, you can fit it with a Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II and bump that to 29k EHP. That's up from 9.37k base.

[Hulk, passive tank]

Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I
Upgraded Thermic Dissipation Amplifier I

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

edit: The most DPS I can squeeze out of a catalyst in Pyfa is 577. Two would be 1,154. 26100 / 1154 = 22.61 seconds.

What do I win?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2012-07-26 21:13:46 UTC
strenif wrote:
Not really a hulk pilot but as long as you're not afk mining I think this would work.

[Hulk, New Setup 1]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

EM Ward Amplifier II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

It's a tight fit. You give up 14% yield by loseing the lows to power grid mods. The tank is as follows.

EHP 20,514
75em
65 th
73kn
75ex

You can change the resists around, I'm just assuming they are going to use EM ammo. Of course the best defense is to be over far away from the warp in for the belt, be passively aligned, be watching D-Scan for combat probes or common ganking ships, and warp out at the first sign of trouble.

I haven't verified it, but your request appears to have been answered and ignored... although better fits have likely been posted by Malcanis.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#25 - 2012-07-26 21:16:12 UTC
strenif wrote:
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster.


No. Bad idea. I've tried repeatedly to make the ASB work as part of a good hulk tank, and buffer wins every time. The tank provided by the medium ASB takes longer than a 0.5 Concord response to add up to the buffer you sacrifice.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-07-26 21:19:40 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
strenif wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
...nobody has said that current hulks can be made totally ungankable.

That isn't what he asked for.


He asked for a gank-proof fit.


True but he clarified with the following

Requirements:
- Fit must protect against at least TWO properly fit catalysts for 20 seconds OR ONE battleship for 10 seconds.
- Must be able to mine at least 75% of its potential yield.


I clarified that a player must way the risk vs the reward. If you want good yield you have to make a choice, either fit for yield or fit for tank...you can't have both. Just like any ship you fly in EVE - you have to make choices on how you wish to fit them.

Hell why not, right off the top of my head.

Fit one DCII, reinforced bulk head II, two invuln II's and one rig medium core defense field extender - with the right skills that gives you decent tank that most gankers will not even attempt to hit in two catalyst - let alone 1. If you are not AFK, overheat your invulns and you're easily pushing 25k EHP and this isn't even a fully tanked hulk!


...and this will still be the case after the proposed changes go in to effect. There will also be no such thing as a gank-proof hulk after the expansion.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#27 - 2012-07-26 21:23:12 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:


...and this will still be the case after the proposed changes go in to effect. There will also be no such thing as a gank-proof hulk after the expansion.


I'll say it again, after the changes, who in their right mind will fly a Hulk? You're better off going Mack, with its new uber armor, and adding two MLU's and with an implant get almost the same yield as a Hulk. It'll make you the least favorable target of a gank over a hulk.
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-07-26 21:24:31 UTC
[Hulk, Hulk Tank]

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

EM Ward Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

29.1k EHP, very tight fit though.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#29 - 2012-07-26 21:25:41 UTC
I'll take the question seriously for a second.

Scenario 1:

Two Catalysts for 20 seconds?
That would put you in 0.5 Space (actually its 19, if the gankers pre-spawned concord....)

You assuming T2 fit, that means the two T2 Cats can deal approximately 12-13K each.

Aggressive ECM drones nullify one, and a Hulk can tank the second with a single DCU II.
If you want to do it the stupid way and brute force it, you've got plenty of slots to get over 26K EHP with if you wish.

Scenario 2:

One Battleship for 10 seconds? (what is this arbitrary sec status day?)
That put us in 0.8 space. Best attack is either a Tempest or a Megathron. (which actually, are stupid to gank with, but, hey, its your scenario...)

One Volley for the Tempest and two shots with a Megathron, or about 12K damage for either one.
One Hulk with a DCUII will handle both attacks easily. As in the first scenario, you have all other slots free to up your yield.

Hulk:
3x Strip Miners
4x mids, whatever you like
1x DCU II
1x MLU II

Rigs: whateva you liek.

Drone bay: ECM drones.

Will work in both scenarios.

See how easy that was? Thats the difference between gankers and miners. Gankers know how the game works and fit accordingly.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2012-07-26 21:28:55 UTC
strenif wrote:
Not really a hulk pilot but as long as you're not afk mining I think this would work.

[Hulk, New Setup 1]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

EM Ward Amplifier II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

It's a tight fit. You give up 14% yield by loseing the lows to power grid mods. The tank is as follows.

EHP 20,514
75em
65 th
73kn
75ex

You can change the resists around, I'm just assuming they are going to use EM ammo. Of course the best defense is to be over far away from the warp in for the belt, be passively aligned, be watching D-Scan for combat probes or common ganking ships, and warp out at the first sign of trouble.


If you're feeling plush, you can use a faction shield booster and it will help your cap and PG usage

/thread

FC, what do?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#31 - 2012-07-26 21:28:56 UTC
The reason to place a tank on a Hulk is not to make it gank proof. That will not happen, even with the new ships. (A freighter has 200k EHP, and they get ganked. The new Skiff can get 100k EHP, so it can be ganked with half the effort of a freighter gank). What it does is induce the gankers to go gank someone else. If the gank fleet has 3 thrashers and you got a tank that needs 4, the gankers will most likely go for someone else.

Its unclear what happens if everyone had a good tank. But at worst (same number of people ganking) there would be fewer gank fleets, each with more ships, and the kills per week would drop as a result. Which means on average the time between attempts on your ship will increase.

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highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2012-07-26 21:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: highonpop
Vincent Athena wrote:
The reason to place a tank on a Hulk is not to make it gank proof. That will not happen, even with the new ships. (A freighter has 200k EHP, and they get ganked. The new Skiff can get 100k EHP, so it can be ganked with half the effort of a freighter gank). What it does is induce the gankers to go gank someone else. If the gank fleet has 3 thrashers and you got a tank that needs 4, the gankers will most likely go for someone else.

Its unclear what happens if everyone had a good tank. But at worst (same number of people ganking) there would be fewer gank fleets, each with more ships, and the kills per week would drop as a result. Which means on average the time between attempts on your ship will increase.


+1

eventually, the ISK loss needed to kill you will outweigh the ISK gained from killing you.

then again, there are always people who gank for fun and could care less if they make ISK from it. been there, done that! YarrC days.

FC, what do?
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#33 - 2012-07-26 21:35:38 UTC
Some of these are way over the top tank fits and my measly decent tanked hulk could do just as good of job. The problem with miners that get ganked 90% of the time is they have zero tank and then fit it with rigs that actually remove armor and then they come on the forums and whine that they got ganked. They got ganked because they chose not to use the tools provided to protect their assets properly.

CCP gave you a choice. Either fit a tank or fit for yield. Many of you choose yield. That is not CCP's fault, that is yours. It looks like your whining paid off though because CCP is handing you idiot proof mining barges and hulks.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-07-26 21:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
[Hulk, Tanked Hulk]

Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Survey Scanner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Requires 1% PG implant. 22.2k EHP, not doing the yield math but you're only down one MLU. Deploy hobs for rats, ECM for when you suspect gankers of course that requires being at the keyboard while mining :allears:.

Miners being ganked is a social problem not a balance issue start being "smart" miners and adapt to the situation* instead of throwing forum tantrums until CCP says uncle. James315 wrote a great thesis about how this kind of behavior is bad for the game but I suspect most people did not read it (http://www.eve-search.com/thread/101626-1).

*because people are really dumb, this means properly fitting your ship.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#35 - 2012-07-26 22:02:20 UTC
Two pages of replies and not even a 'thank you' from the OP.
How rude.
Warpshade
Warped Industries
#36 - 2012-07-26 22:48:56 UTC
[Hulk, Tank]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

29,802 ehp
80/77/83/84
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-07-26 22:58:08 UTC
@ OP:

Could you please post up a fit for a... uhm... say, Harbinger - with the following requirements:

1) It must be able to tank 4 Vindicators point blank for at least 20 secs,
2) It must be able to put out at least 600 DPS,
3) Move at least 1450 m/s with the MWD on.

Thanks...

... no?

So you are saying that I have to pick between a heavy tank, high DPS, or kiting ability in my ship fitting? I can't have all 3 at once? I don't see how this makes EVE easier for me. Can someone report this thread to CCP, OP has found a major bug that needs to be fixedAttention
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#38 - 2012-07-26 23:03:38 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:

No I sense CCP caving in and dumbing down EVE.


Um, this is old news. From missile and nano nerfs, to ships like the Dram and the Drake, CCP has been making Eve easier for a very long time for people that can't be bothered to be adaptive, clever or inventive. Nerf this, nerf that, this is too hard, that is too hard, this is hands down, bar none the single most nerfed game that I have played, with some of the whiniest people playing it.

Just wish I could turn back the clock a few years at least.

John Hancock
Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#39 - 2012-07-27 00:36:35 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Some of these are way over the top tank fits and my measly decent tanked hulk could do just as good of job. The problem with miners that get ganked 90% of the time is they have zero tank and then fit it with rigs that actually remove armor and then they come on the forums and whine that they got ganked. They got ganked because they chose not to use the tools provided to protect their assets properly.

CCP gave you a choice. Either fit a tank or fit for yield. Many of you choose yield. That is not CCP's fault, that is yours. It looks like your whining paid off though because CCP is handing you idiot proof mining barges and hulks.



I sense much bitterness in you. Seriously, you make me giggle with how upset you are over changes....
Henry Kaine
Royal Amarr Institute
#40 - 2012-07-27 00:41:43 UTC
Any kind of tank makes you less of a target than the 98.06123% of players who do not tank their hulks. And you can believe that statistic, it's on the internet.