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Barge Fairy Tale

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2012-07-26 06:58:04 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).

That's a nice sentiment I suppose, but it seems you've failed to back it up with anything resembling a justification.

Do you have any idea what you're about to do to the game with this change?
Do you seriously believe this is a good idea?
MINERS THEMSELVES should be against this change, because it promotes lazy gameplay. Intelligent miners will be making far less, the price of minerals as a whole will drop, and supercapital production will be significantly cheaper. The only miners that will make any kind of money now are the same miners who find it difficult to pull a profit under these conditions because they're lazy and mine for hours simply because they don't even sit at their computers while they do it.

How you could possibly think this is a good idea is beyond me.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2012-07-26 06:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Pipa Porto wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
From what I understand from another thread, it's Sig Radius is decreasing to an almost Frigate size.


the skiff already has a frigate-sized sig


Ok, not decreasing. Staying the same. Aren't 100k EHP Frigates a wonderful idea?


oh wait, the skiff is getting its sig radius changed to 200 from 90

a hilarious side effect is that it'll be able to fit a 10mn afterburner and zoom around with the same tank as a T3 while acting as heavy tackle with its new utility midslot

what great foresight there

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Dave stark
#163 - 2012-07-26 06:58:57 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
any plans for goons to raise rewards for hulkageddon in order to somewhat bankroll bigger ships to continue ganking miners?


yeah if we do continue to fund hulkageddon infinity despite the tech nerf, we might have to slightly increase the reward so that people could use *gasp* more than one catalyst


interesting.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#164 - 2012-07-26 06:59:41 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).


Oh, did you notice? What could be wrong with blowing ships worth 400 million (and a couple weeks of casual mining) with ships worth 1.5 million and which the NPE hands out for free? Blink

I'm waiting now for you to check how much it costs to blow a mission runner ship worth 2+ billion ISK (and a couple months of casual mission runing). Bear

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#165 - 2012-07-26 07:00:00 UTC
Wait, ganking wasn't meant to be profitable? I think I need to be banned for exploiting Big smile


Also, surely these extra HPs will be reflected in build materials needed? That bulk need to come from somewhere. Or is this whole thing based on space magic?

Really, macks should cost around half a bill according to this. Don't look at me so teary eyed miner bear. After all it probably will be just a magical HP buff.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#166 - 2012-07-26 07:00:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I was under the impression that suicide ganking wasn't "designed" at all, insofar as all ships anywhere in space can be attacked by default.


There's a fairy tale about a King who was looking for a master marksman to hunt the villains who kidnapped his daughter. His scouts brought him this bent, blunt old man carrying a bow, a quiver of arrows and a can of paint. The advisers exclaimed, "sire! This man is the most incredible marksman in the country! Every arrow he shoots hits the bullseye!"

To demonstrate, the old man shot an arrow, which bounced off the edge of the target roundel, ricochet of a wall and embedded itself in a tree. The old man walked over to the tree and painted a bullseye around the arrow.

TL;DR: “History shall be kind to us, for we shall write it!”

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dave stark
#167 - 2012-07-26 07:00:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).

That's a nice sentiment I suppose, but it seems you've failed to back it up with anything resembling a justification.

Do you have any idea what you're about to do to the game with this change?
Do you seriously believe this is a good idea?
MINERS THEMSELVES should be against this change, because it promotes lazy gameplay. Intelligent miners will be making far less, the price of minerals as a whole will drop, and supercapital production will be significantly cheaper. The only miners that will make any kind of money now are the same miners who find it difficult to pull a profit under these conditions because they're lazy and mine for hours simply because they don't even sit at their computers while they do it.

How you could possibly think this is a good idea is beyond me.


i nearly took you seriously until you said miners could be afk for hours demonstrating you've never mined for more than 5 mins in your entire life.
Pipa Porto
#168 - 2012-07-26 07:01:48 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).


Oh, did you notice? What could be wrong with blowing ships worth 400 million (and a couple weeks of casual mining) with ships worth 1.5 million and which the NPE hands out for free? Blink

I'm waiting now for you to check how much it costs to blow a mission runner ship worth 2+ billion ISK (and a couple months of casual mission runing). Bear


It costs 1 Tornado if you do it right. 2 if you're lazy about it.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2012-07-26 07:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Oh, did you notice? What could be wrong with blowing ships worth 400 million (and a couple weeks of casual mining) with ships worth 1.5 million and which the NPE hands out for free? Blink

I'm waiting now for you to check how much it costs to blow a mission runner ship worth 2+ billion ISK (and a couple months of casual mission runing). Bear


i'm glad that CCP finally came to realize that hisec needs to be absolutely free of risk

can't wait to move my PvE alt to hisec so I can grind isk in absolute safety in an officer-fit vindicator that nobody will bother ganking because they'd need 60 tornadoes

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#170 - 2012-07-26 07:03:37 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
From what I understand from another thread, it's Sig Radius is decreasing to an almost Frigate size.


the skiff already has a frigate-sized sig


Ok, not decreasing. Staying the same. Aren't 100k EHP Frigates a wonderful idea?


oh wait, the skiff is getting its sig radius changed to 200 from 90

a hilarious side effect is that it'll be able to fit a 10mn afterburner and zoom around with the same tank as a T3 while acting as heavy tackle with its new utility midslot

what great foresight there

Wait, could it become the new t2 rifter

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2012-07-26 07:09:39 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).

That's a nice sentiment I suppose, but it seems you've failed to back it up with anything resembling a justification.

Do you have any idea what you're about to do to the game with this change?
Do you seriously believe this is a good idea?
MINERS THEMSELVES should be against this change, because it promotes lazy gameplay. Intelligent miners will be making far less, the price of minerals as a whole will drop, and supercapital production will be significantly cheaper. The only miners that will make any kind of money now are the same miners who find it difficult to pull a profit under these conditions because they're lazy and mine for hours simply because they don't even sit at their computers while they do it.

How you could possibly think this is a good idea is beyond me.


i nearly took you seriously until you said miners could be afk for hours demonstrating you've never mined for more than 5 mins in your entire life.

Yeah, I admit I forgot the part where you press F1, F2, and F3, and then go about whatever you were doing before.

The point is you don't even have to pay attention anymore, because it won't matter whatsoever.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mira Luhtanen
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-07-26 07:11:38 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
oh wait, the skiff is getting its sig radius changed to 200 from 90

a hilarious side effect is that it'll be able to fit a 10mn afterburner and zoom around with the same tank as a T3 while acting as heavy tackle with its new utility midslot

what great foresight there

speaking as someone who hasn't even trained Mining Barges I, I think I'm going to be feeling very left out on patch day.
Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
#173 - 2012-07-26 07:11:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


I was under the impression that suicide ganking wasn't "designed" at all, insofar as all ships anywhere in space can be attacked by default.


CCP made the game mechanics knowing full well that ships could still fire on other ships in high sec even though war was not declared. CCP also sets the time to kill for CONCORD. CCP designed the setting, tools, everything that allows suicide ganking to occur, and has said that they are cool with it as long as someone does not avoid punishment by CONCORD.
marVLs
#174 - 2012-07-26 07:12:06 UTC
Good changes to mining ships, approved

And don't bother gankers, they are.... just don't
Major Bibi
#175 - 2012-07-26 07:13:30 UTC
to the OP learn to adapt you silly boy and be careful who you call stupid pigs , for some that is a serious insult

they not ungankable and there always will be silly miners going for maximum yield
besides now as a ganker you will need to put in some more work to 'pvp ' someone who can't shoot back

putting more work into it ..yeah that must be the reason you acting like a crybaby

silly boy
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#176 - 2012-07-26 07:16:07 UTC
Major Bibi wrote:
to the OP learn to adapt you silly boy and be careful who you call stupid pigs , for some that is a serious insult

they not ungankable and there always will be silly miners going for maximum yield
besides now as a ganker you will need to put in some more work to 'pvp ' someone who can't shoot back

putting more work into it ..yeah that must be the reason you acting like a crybaby

silly boy


You can no longer gank these ships and make any isk. Which means miners will more or less be the only profession in the game that face no real risk with their choices.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#177 - 2012-07-26 07:16:44 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The point is you don't even have to pay attention anymore, because it won't matter whatsoever.


Are we talking about mining, trading or planetary interaction?... even lvl4 missions can be done afk in drone boats.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Pipa Porto
#178 - 2012-07-26 07:17:55 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
From what I understand from another thread, it's Sig Radius is decreasing to an almost Frigate size.


the skiff already has a frigate-sized sig


Ok, not decreasing. Staying the same. Aren't 100k EHP Frigates a wonderful idea?


oh wait, the skiff is getting its sig radius changed to 200 from 90

a hilarious side effect is that it'll be able to fit a 10mn afterburner and zoom around with the same tank as a T3 while acting as heavy tackle with its new utility midslot

what great foresight there

Wait, could it become the new t2 rifter


880m/s. Only problem is that it's align time's poor. But that's not a big deal when you have 100k EHP (before fleet bonuses) to get chewed through.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#179 - 2012-07-26 07:19:08 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I was under the impression that suicide ganking wasn't "designed" at all, insofar as all ships anywhere in space can be attacked by default.


There's a fairy tale about a King who was looking for a master marksman to hunt the villains who kidnapped his daughter. His scouts brought him this bent, blunt old man carrying a bow, a quiver of arrows and a can of paint. The advisers exclaimed, "sire! This man is the most incredible marksman in the country! Every arrow he shoots hits the bullseye!"

To demonstrate, the old man shot an arrow, which bounced off the edge of the target roundel, ricochet of a wall and embedded itself in a tree. The old man walked over to the tree and painted a bullseye around the arrow.

TL;DR: “History shall be kind to us, for we shall write it!”


Thats actually an amusing story.

Incidentally, Mara Rinn is a perfect example of the 'smart' high-sec miner.
While I am generally inactive during the summer, I've recently made a few ganking passes through her mining systems.
She tanks her Hulk hard, and is quite content to continue mining away - with ice at record high prices. She pays attention to her surroundings, knows that I work alone - and am unlikely to crack her tank without spending far more than I'd like. And she broadcasts warnings to the other miners in local.

Fortunately for me, there usually are a few targets in system that don't pay attention and I get my kills as well.
I get to blow up some Exhumers, and she has less mining competition, allowing her to sell her ice at higher prices.

Win for the ganker, Win for the 'smart' miner, exactly how it should be.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#180 - 2012-07-26 07:20:34 UTC
Can i get a link to all these new stats??? where does it say barges have orca hp?????

No Worries