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Barge Fairy Tale

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Anvil44
Avedis Corporation
The Vanguard Syndicate
#1441 - 2012-07-27 20:24:56 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:


Bolded for you. The numbers should be about the same vs AM. It also has enough tank vs EMP, Quake, Fusion, or PP to survive 2 volleys of a Nado. No Fleet boosts, and only a 4% Grid Inplant.

If they bring 2 Nados, they're spending 140m to kill you. That's shot profit in the face.


I hadn't realized Void could improve someones EHP. As I said, the best that a lvl V could do against any one damage type was 32k against explosive. The 39k must have been pulled out of that place where the sun doesn't shine...or you are forgetting to list implants. But 32k is still great against explosive. And I have to use the lvl V pilot as I just realized I don't have all my skills to lvl V that would help to improve my tank. Whoops.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#1442 - 2012-07-27 20:25:43 UTC
Need waders for the **** piling up from pointless "Max tank" Hulk fits.

Need a snorkel to breathe with all the ganker tears.

Waders must be low slots...too bad my lows are all full of tank fittings. Snorkel is a high slot but it seems I only have one or two in most mining vessels.

The only PVP ships that max tank fit are bait...so why should miners be expected to give up Yield for max tank? This is akin to removing all damage mods on PVP or PVE ships..which is rarely ever done. Some slots used for tank makes sense surely, but the extreme bullshit suggested here is pathetic.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1443 - 2012-07-27 20:26:45 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Dez Affinity wrote:


I've done far more ganking of miners, including using 1 catalyst to solo a hulk in .5s It's horribly unfair, the guy can do nothing about it, I land right on top of him and he's dead before he can get past 10m/s. If I really want I can bump him with an alt for one mwd cycle and then he's really boned.



You ganked a Hulk in 0.5 space with a Catalyst.

"Its horribly unfair" - that suggests that there is nothing he can do about it.

"The guy can do nothing about it" Why do you promote misinformation???

FALSE: He can tank.
One DCUII in the lows, and he survives that gank. One flight of ECM drones, he can stops two Catalysts. A few other mods, he can survive three .

FALSE: He can mine in a safer place than 0.5..
FALSE: He can stay aligned and warp off before you land.
and on and on...I'm not going to list all the ways.

If you are going to make an argument, at least try not to back it up with discredited bullcrap.






The more tank he fits just means I have to bring an extra couple of catalysts, it's no big deal, they cost 1m isk and I'm already outlaw. I'll get that back in salvage easy. Doesn't really help him a whole bunch, most people do it with at least 2 catalyst, I'm just pointing out it's easy to do it with 1.

Sure he can go to a system with worse/less ore, more crowded, not where he keeps his stuff. Doesn't make too much difference but sure it makes you a tad less likely to get ganked.

Stay aligned? You're being silly. He'll go out of range of the asteroid he's mining within 5 minutes of mining, out of range of his Orca/secure container within 1 minute. Sorry, aligning might 'save' him but it kills his profitability to practically zero.

Fact is you're just angry it's going to be harder to kill a poor defenceless miner. I'm sad for u m8. High sec ganking is so hard!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1444 - 2012-07-27 20:27:35 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Profitability in ganking is largely irrelevant.

If you lost X amount of isk per gank, but your income was that same X amount more than the miner, you could sustain your gank squad indefinitely. Eventually that would cause pilots who pay via PLEX to no longer play Eve. And at 200+mil a loss for the miner, it would not take long if one was 'singled out'.


I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1445 - 2012-07-27 20:29:34 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Need waders for the **** piling up from pointless "Max tank" Hulk fits.

Need a snorkel to breathe with all the ganker tears.

Waders must be low slots...too bad my lows are all full of tank fittings. Snorkel is a high slot but it seems I only have one or two in most mining vessels.

The only PVP ships that max tank fit are bait...so why should miners be expected to give up Yield for max tank? This is akin to removing all damage mods on PVP or PVE ships..which is rarely ever done. Some slots used for tank makes sense surely, but the extreme bullshit suggested here is pathetic.




So this fit here doesnt have a MLU in it?

[Hulk, Tank]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2

Will survive 3 cats in a .5 system
Suqq Madiq
#1446 - 2012-07-27 20:31:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Suqq Madiq
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
- Gankers whine


That sums up the thread.

Gankers whining that they have to put effort into finding profitable ganks.

Gankers whining that they have to make friends to gank tanked ships.

Gankers whining that not every ship in EVE is profitable to gank.

Gankers whining.

Here are some facts. All ships can be ganked. Some ships can be ganked profitably. Some ships cannot be ganked profitably. Mining ship rebalance changes none of this.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1447 - 2012-07-27 20:31:11 UTC
Also I've done the whole 'kill the suicide catalyst' things. I would get in a Thrasher with 8 remote sensor boosters on me and tackle the mon their out gate, then they started fitting stabs, I could only catch one anyway and they could just go to a different system.

I also would camp their home system station after a gank with a sensor booster thrasher to pod them and make it expensive for them in implants/clones but that's easy to work around too.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1448 - 2012-07-27 20:32:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank.


Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff.
Dave stark
#1449 - 2012-07-27 20:34:42 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank.


Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff.


indeed, polite gankers will target your combat ships first.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#1450 - 2012-07-27 20:34:51 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank.


Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff.

You are implying that your average miner will notice the patch, and change their afk mining habits. We are talking about people who pay for the priviledge of being a bot, not exactly the brightest bulbs in the box here.
Dave stark
#1451 - 2012-07-27 20:36:29 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank.


Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff.

You are implying that your average miner will notice the patch, and change their afk mining habits. We are talking about people who pay for the priviledge of being a bot, not exactly the brightest bulbs in the box here.


sure they will when they wonder why A) their cargo is now only 350m3, and B) where did their ore go because it's not in the 350m3 cargo hold.
Pipa Porto
#1452 - 2012-07-27 20:37:19 UTC
Anvil44 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


Bolded for you. The numbers should be about the same vs AM. It also has enough tank vs EMP, Quake, Fusion, or PP to survive 2 volleys of a Nado. No Fleet boosts, and only a 4% Grid Inplant.

If they bring 2 Nados, they're spending 140m to kill you. That's shot profit in the face.


I hadn't realized Void could improve someones EHP. As I said, the best that a lvl V could do against any one damage type was 32k against explosive. The 39k must have been pulled out of that place where the sun doesn't shine...or you are forgetting to list implants. But 32k is still great against explosive. And I have to use the lvl V pilot as I just realized I don't have all my skills to lvl V that would help to improve my tank. Whoops.


There is no pure Explosive ammo. Void does 50/50 Kin/Therm. With Heat, this gets 84.5/88.4 Kin/Therm resists on 4k Shields, 44.1/35.5 on 1.27k Armor, and 58/58 on 3.16k Hull.

Pyfa does the math for me and totals it out to 39,193EHP vs Void Ammo. Feel free to check it's work. I've double checked, 1 4% Grid Implant, no Fleet Boosters.

Vs Fusion 45.7k EHP
Vs AM 39.9k EHP
Vs EMP 33.6k EHP
Vs Quake 45.3k EHP
Vs PP 36.7k EHP
Vs Pure Explosive, 46.1k EHP

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1453 - 2012-07-27 20:38:24 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Need waders for the **** piling up from pointless "Max tank" Hulk fits.

Need a snorkel to breathe with all the ganker tears.

Waders must be low slots...too bad my lows are all full of tank fittings. Snorkel is a high slot but it seems I only have one or two in most mining vessels.

The only PVP ships that max tank fit are bait...so why should miners be expected to give up Yield for max tank? This is akin to removing all damage mods on PVP or PVE ships..which is rarely ever done. Some slots used for tank makes sense surely, but the extreme bullshit suggested here is pathetic.




Well appart from all fleet line ships that use shields.
Pipa Porto
#1454 - 2012-07-27 20:39:15 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
Also I've done the whole 'kill the suicide catalyst' things. I would get in a Thrasher with 8 remote sensor boosters on me and tackle the mon their out gate, then they started fitting stabs, I could only catch one anyway and they could just go to a different system.

I also would camp their home system station after a gank with a sensor booster thrasher to pod them and make it expensive for them in implants/clones but that's easy to work around too.


Sit 5k off the Hulks in a Seboed, tracking 650 Nado. You'll 2 Volley Catalysts once they go GCC.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#1455 - 2012-07-27 20:39:56 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I can assure you that the stupidity of people is such that in 9 years they indeed never learn a very simply lesson. Fit a damn tank.


Hulk will be for fleet mining ops after the patch. No need to fit a tank because ships protecting those Hulks will be doing the tanking stuff.


indeed, polite gankers will target your combat ships first.


Your Combat ships can kill the gank in progress before the Hulks die. Or Jam them.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#1456 - 2012-07-27 20:40:50 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
Stay aligned? You're being silly. He'll go out of range of the asteroid he's mining within 5 minutes of mining, out of range of his Orca/secure container within 1 minute. Sorry, aligning might 'save' him but it kills his profitability to practically zero.

Staying aligned is the easiest way to stay alive and make plenty of profit.

Works best in fleet ops, since the Orca can tractor jettisoned stuff. Ok solo as long as you don't mind warping to station when full.


You make a bunch of BMs off grid in a ring around the belt. You then fly to each one in such a way that you can mine continuously for hours, being aligned almost every second. The only way for someone to get you when using this method is to scan down your BMs (bumping is impractical because anything that could bump the miner off course enough would have to be uncloaked, and they could warp long before the bump occurred).


Mining is already nearly 100% safe if the morons would put some effort in. Instead, they want to be safe while away from the computer. They deserve to get blown up.

If you haven't guessed, I hate those miners (or any group for that matter) that demand changes to something that would work fine if they bothered to do things themselves.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1457 - 2012-07-27 20:41:57 UTC
MIrple wrote:

Will survive 3 cats in a .5 system

I should add that this fit isn't even specialized to tank Catalysts.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1458 - 2012-07-27 20:44:44 UTC
Not to mention staying aligned is even easier when having a corp frigate double web you.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#1459 - 2012-07-27 20:44:48 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
- Gankers whine


That sums up the thread.

Gankers whining that they have to put effort into finding profitable ganks.

Gankers whining that they have to make friends to gank tanked ships.

Gankers whining that not every ship in EVE is profitable to gank.

Gankers whining.

Here are some facts. All ships can be ganked. Some ships can be ganked profitably. Some ships cannot be ganked profitably. Mining ship rebalance changes none of this.

No its people (hint: not all of us are gankers... mostly) arguing that CCP is taking the changes too far. They are making the tanky miners pointless by making the Hulk and Mack more than tanky enough. No need to make a choice. Just use the Hulk for ore, and mack for ice/afk.
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1460 - 2012-07-27 20:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikolai Dostoyevski
OP apparently thinks MLUs and cargo expanders shouldn't be in the game at all.

Yawn - same old story. Wanna be griefers are disappointed and the inevitable whining ensues.

Griefer tears are the sweetest tears. They love to inflict meaningless pain on others but cry like babies when you take away their toys.