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Barge Fairy Tale

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Author
Pipa Porto
#1081 - 2012-07-27 06:54:23 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
We're talking about HS. Did you forget again?


No you were talking about how tractor beam is stupid/useless module.

Pipa Porto wrote:
In Null, you don't need much tank at all because if you get pointed you die period. No hoping the hostile is low on DPS.


Can your Erebus destroy that Hulk before it gets to complete safety of POS?


No, I asked why you would intentionally put an Orca 70-80km away from your mining fleet. Try to keep track of things that you say.

If the Hulk gets pointed, yes. But again, we're talking about HS.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1082 - 2012-07-27 06:58:54 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
>belt rats in incursion constellations

holy **** talk about grasping at straws


Are Sanshas too tough challenge for pvper?


yeah i forgot about all the hulks you see mining in incursion constellations

clearly that happens all the time

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#1083 - 2012-07-27 06:59:12 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
We're talking about HS. Did you forget again?


No you were talking about how tractor beam is stupid/useless module.


The tractor beam is not worth fitting for hisec fleets, where every hulk can hug the Orca and reach the entire belt without moving.

Things work differently in null sec: in null sec it makes sense to fit an active tank to a Hulk because you will be tanking damage from a bunch of battleship NPCs for a long time. In null sec it makes sense to have a tractor beam on the Orca because the belts are larger, hulks will be spread out, and the links you're sacrificing from the Orca are running more effectively on the Rorqual instead.

In hisec, the Orca is the boosting ship, there is no reason to tractor cans (and every reason to not use cans), and belts are 60km across, maximum.

There is no suicide banking in null sec: you can shoot first. You don't need to spam d-scan since you can just watch local.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1084 - 2012-07-27 06:59:45 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
If the Hulk gets pointed, yes. But again, we're talking about HS.


they already think that you can have a tower anywhere

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1085 - 2012-07-27 07:00:43 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
But again, we're talking about HS.


Why does it matter if player if AFK because it means he/she is AFK (away from keyboard)?
Pipa Porto
#1086 - 2012-07-27 07:01:27 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
>belt rats in incursion constellations

holy **** talk about grasping at straws


Are Sanshas too tough challenge for pvper?


You're the only one claiming that ganking miners is "challenging" or "elite" or any of the other words.

We think it's fun and just profitably enough to be self sustaining (so long as miners continue to refuse to adapt to the risk of ganking).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#1087 - 2012-07-27 07:02:53 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
But again, we're talking about HS.


Why does it matter if player if AFK because it means he/she is AFK (away from keyboard)?


If he's AFK, there's no reason for him to have a Survey scanner, so he can easily fit a brick tank which is unprofitable to gank anywhere in HS.

If he's ATK, he might consider fitting for yield and using one of the many other ways to avoid getting ganked instead of the brick tank.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1088 - 2012-07-27 07:03:39 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
We're talking about HS. Did you forget again?


No you were talking about how tractor beam is stupid/useless module.


The tractor beam is not worth fitting for hisec fleets, where every hulk can hug the Orca and reach the entire belt without moving.

Things work differently in null sec: in null sec it makes sense to fit an active tank to a Hulk because you will be tanking damage from a bunch of battleship NPCs for a long time. In null sec it makes sense to have a tractor beam on the Orca because the belts are larger, hulks will be spread out, and the links you're sacrificing from the Orca are running more effectively on the Rorqual instead.

In hisec, the Orca is the boosting ship, there is no reason to tractor cans (and every reason to not use cans), and belts are 60km across, maximum.

There is no suicide banking in null sec: you can shoot first. You don't need to spam d-scan since you can just watch local.


actually, you don't fit an active tank on a nullsec hulk because you have a ship dedicated to tanking the rats

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1089 - 2012-07-27 07:03:54 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
You're the only one claiming that ganking miners is "challenging" or "elite" or any of the other words.


No it's not. If you want a challenge go to lowsec and start shooting people. You have very good chance they will return fire.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1090 - 2012-07-27 07:05:36 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
No it's not. If you want a challenge go to lowsec and start shooting people. You have very good chance they will dock up when they can't beat you.


fixed

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1091 - 2012-07-27 07:06:07 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
If he's AFK, there's no reason for him to have a Survey scanner, so he can easily fit a brick tank which is unprofitable to gank anywhere in HS.


If miner fits tank don't complain then.
Pipa Porto
#1092 - 2012-07-27 07:06:57 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
You're the only one claiming that ganking miners is "challenging" or "elite" or any of the other words.


No it's not. If you want a challenge go to lowsec and start shooting people. You have very good chance they will return fire.


You really have ****** reading comprehension skills, don't you. Ganking Hulks isn't challenging. I never said it was. The only time anyone says it's challenging is when you say it.

Ganking hulks is a nice, relaxing pastime that I can do after work with a cold beer. Some people mine when they're in that "I want to relax" mood, some people gank miners. Mining actually makes more Isk/hr than ganking.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1093 - 2012-07-27 07:07:26 UTC
Turifica wrote:
You're problem isn't that its being rebalanced, its that you know you can't put together a group of ten people who would give you the ******* time of day, never mind listen to your pathetic drivel.


Priceless.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!

Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#1094 - 2012-07-27 07:08:36 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
I don't want you to stop ganking nor am I going to remove aggression in high sec vOv


You got the Insurance Nerf.
You got the Suddenly CONCORD fix to aggro kiting.
You got the wardec changes that Dramatically favor the defenders.
You got the proposed Crimewatch changes that make it essentially impossible to loot the cargo of a ganked Freighter.
You got the proposed Crimewatch changes that were originally going to allow RR with CONCORD protection.

It all paints a picture, no matter what your stated objectives are.

Hulks can be fit such that they are not profitable to gank right now. The others need roles to fill, but if one ship's going to have the role of Tankey Miner, why are they all getting buffs that take away from that role bonus?

To fit the roles, the Skiff should have a great Tank, a middling Yield, and a smallish Cargo.
The Mackinaw should have a small Tank, a middling Yield, and a Great Cargo.
The Hulk should have a small Tank, a Great Yield, and a smallish Cargo.

You're giving the Skiff an insane Tank, a middling Yield, and a very good Cargo.
The Mackinaw a great Tank, a middling Yield, and a Great Cargo.
The Hulk a great Tank, a Great Yield, and a smallish Cargo.

When the Mack can have ~60k EHP, why bother with the Skiff?
When the Hulk can have ~45k EHP, why bother with the Skiff?

35k EHP is already unprofitable to Gank. The Extra 10k will remove Exhumer ganking entirely.


Oh, and the other 2 Exhumers with max MLUs should be able to out-mine a 0 MLU Hulk. Otherwise people are going to keep using the Hulk and tanking it (probably badly).


If I wanted to remove aggression, I'd just shut it off, instead of going through all these hoops to keep it alive. The reality is that suicide ganking is an integral part of the game that I quite like, but every now and then we need to make changes because the current setup doesn't work.


Funny, when I complained about it in 2009, I was told to HTFU. 3 years later you admit that it is *STILL* not working right, ergo I didn't need to HTFU, you needed to fix it.



Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1095 - 2012-07-27 07:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
You really have ****** reading comprehension skills, don't you. Ganking Hulks isn't challenging. I never said it was. The only time anyone says it's challenging is when you say it.


I've never said it's a challenge.

But you guys are the ones who don't like challenges...
Pipa Porto
#1096 - 2012-07-27 07:10:17 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If he's AFK, there's no reason for him to have a Survey scanner, so he can easily fit a brick tank which is unprofitable to gank anywhere in HS.


If miner fits tank don't complain then.


Where have I ever complained when a miner has fitted a tank?

If a Miner fits a Tank, I'll be shocked.

Since you haven't been paying attention, that's my entire point. Miners have been whining that they have to fit a tank [gasp] while refusing to do so. They can fit a tank such that you cannot be profitably suicide ganked.

If they do so, GREAT!

But they don't. Instead, CCP has decided to reward them for their stunning incompetence and changed the Hull so that fitting a tank is irrelevant.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1097 - 2012-07-27 07:10:27 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
You really have ****** reading comprehension skills, don't you. Ganking Hulks isn't challenging. I never said it was. The only time anyone says it's challenging is when you say it.


I've never said it's a challenge.


it's almost like you're being deliberately obtuse and just trolling

npc alts, lol

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Pipa Porto
#1098 - 2012-07-27 07:11:39 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
You really have ****** reading comprehension skills, don't you. Ganking Hulks isn't challenging. I never said it was. The only time anyone says it's challenging is when you say it.


I've never said it's a challenge.

But you guys are the ones who don't like challenges...


And Miners are all about the challenge? Roll

Miners are not going to win much high ground claiming "mining is sooooo hard Cry"

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1099 - 2012-07-27 07:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If he's AFK, there's no reason for him to have a Survey scanner, so he can easily fit a brick tank which is unprofitable to gank anywhere in HS.


If miner fits tank don't complain then.


Where have I ever complained when a miner has fitted a tank?

If a Miner fits a Tank, I'll be shocked.

Since you haven't been paying attention, that's my entire point. Miners have been whining that they have to fit a tank [gasp] while refusing to do so. They can fit a tank such that you cannot be profitably suicide ganked.

If they do so, GREAT!

But they don't. Instead, CCP has decided to reward them for their stunning incompetence and changed the Hull so that fitting a tank is irrelevant.


If tank is good then why are you whining in this thread.

Untanked Hulk can be ganked in hisec after the changes. Just in case you haven't noticed that Hulk doesn't get huge buff.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1100 - 2012-07-27 07:12:38 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
And Miners are all about the challenge? Roll

Miners are not going to win much high ground claiming "mining is sooooo hard Cry"


figuring out whether to mine veldspar, scordite or pyroxeres by looking at a pre-made spreadsheet is so hard, i tell you

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration