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Barge Fairy Tale

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Unit757
North Point
#881 - 2012-07-26 23:12:19 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
Unit757 wrote:
So, in light of all the civilized conversations going on, I went ahead and tried my darndest to do something incredibly stupid, and ended up sitting in a "max yield" hulk. It came out to 14k EHP w/ low-grade slaves. Gankable still?


Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go throw up and then drink lots of beer, not fitting a DCII on a ship, and undocking seems to have been a little to much for me.

(note, this was all on sisi with the current changes to barges)


Yes, slaves for a shield tanked ship, perfect plan


I only mentioned slaves because an exhumer isnt worth me jumping out of said clone. Its more to show that that number is probably inflated by 2k
Dave Stark
#882 - 2012-07-26 23:13:07 UTC
Jed Bobby wrote:
why not just stay the **** out of high systems and play with people who want to play with you? there are THOUSANDS of people in null/low
get the **** out of high sec if the only thing you can kill is defenseless people.

in a way i like the segregation
keep people separated who want to do separate things.


except there are very few people in null that give a flying **** about industry; and those that do already have multiple accounts and are pretty much self sufficient.

hell i joined one of the large null sec alliances and spent most of my time solo mining as i only had one account and other people were either A) in a different time zone B) busy multiboxing or C) just didn't give a **** about industry and were busy blowing their load over the gigantic bubblefest on the 319 station.
Herr Hammer Draken
#883 - 2012-07-26 23:15:01 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
would ganking Hulks be profitable at all if the people who have a monopoly on building them weren't offering you 10M to blow one up? would you do it if there was no bounty on them?


First, I don't grant your premise. Nobody has a monopoly on building Hulks.

That said,

Yep*. Yep.

*If they continue to refuse to fit a tank. A Hulk can be tanked such that it is unprofitable to gank it in any sec band. Untanked, it's profitable in most sec bands.


So what you are really mad about is that CCP is taking away your prefered way to earn a living in EVE.

But you can and should form a player corp that is for hire to kill miners. You can charge a fee for this service. Plus you get the loot.
You can still earn a living doing your thing. Just adapt to the change. The fee should be high enough to cover your expenses and make a profit margin when including the salvage, then there is what the market can bear vs how much competition you have in your field. With your knowledge of the subject you have an edge over most competitiors for this service.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Jed Bobby
Doomheim
#884 - 2012-07-26 23:16:33 UTC
i was meaning people who want to pvp
pve should stay in high-sec where it belongs
Herr Hammer Draken
#885 - 2012-07-26 23:18:12 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:


The new mack has a much better tank than the hulk, both old and new. It's going to be in the ''unlikely'' ganking bracket most of the time and the **** you bracket in a 0.9 and over.


Well it had half the Hulk tank for years, time for some revenge. Twisted

But joking aside, mining ships like that will fall in the same category of the others: you kill them because of an agenda or because they are pimped or because they are carrying valuable stuff. Not because it's completely free ISK even killing the bare hull.


I have never mined ice. But with the size of the ore bay on a mack how much is a full ore bay of ice worth?

Or for that matter a full ore bay of veldspar on a covetor of a procurer, or etc...

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#886 - 2012-07-26 23:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
That's the setup I use(d), (I also produce Orcas and all their mods...) but I don't arrogate myself to impose such expensive setup on other players who could as well be new-ish or without the means to get all that bling including a command ship.

See I can see competitive tournament PvP games being purely balanced on the top of the top of the elite with the best gear and skills and using Naga / Sensei peripherals with special pads and so on.

But not a generalistic MMO and much less one where they are striving to finally improve new players experience.
What are going to do those without the mythical "all V skills" that today struggle going above 10K EHP? Be told to suck it up and return to the game in 1 year and after they purchased Orca + alt?


>new players
>Hulks

ahahahahaha


57 days ahahahah.


i hope you're not telling new players to train straight into a hulk because if so you are a cancer

"it takes 57 days to train" doesn't mean "hulk pilots are new players" because, well, it's a fairly pricey ship that requires skills beyond exhumer I and mining 4 to fly effectively

not to mention the fact that refining skills are necessary to get anything out of it

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#887 - 2012-07-26 23:18:45 UTC
Jed Bobby wrote:
i was meaning people who want to pvp
pve should stay in high-sec where it belongs


PVE exists in nul-sec, right?
PVP, likewise, exists in high-sec.

Your theory that PVE belongs in one place and PVP belongs in another is fatally flawed.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#888 - 2012-07-26 23:20:40 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
except there are very few people in null that give a flying **** about industry


yeah i'm sure my supercarrier was built by somebody who doesn't give a flying **** about industry

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#889 - 2012-07-26 23:24:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Richard Desturned wrote:

i hope you're not telling new players to train straight into a hulk because if so you are a cancer

"it takes 57 days to train" doesn't mean "hulk pilots are new players" because, well, it's a fairly pricey ship that requires skills beyond exhumer I and mining 4 to fly effectively

not to mention the fact that refining skills are necessary to get anything out of it


I personally don't, but the ISDs in the rookie chats do. So what? File a lawsuit against them?

Also, the "requires skills beyond exhumer I..." is basically what many prioritize and it's why they fit no tank.
It's always complex to tell a guy "stay docked and keep paying for some more months, one day you might be able to finally play something and make some far from impressive ISK on it".

So they usually go something like Bantam => Osprey => Retriever ASAP => Hulk (Covetor is so close to Hulk most skip it, Procurer is a joke).

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#890 - 2012-07-26 23:25:55 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
except there are very few people in null that give a flying **** about industry


yeah i'm sure my supercarrier was built by somebody who doesn't give a flying **** about industry


i don't think xxxdeathxxx cares about anything tbh...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Herr Hammer Draken
#891 - 2012-07-26 23:26:00 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
[multiple-quote snippy-snippy]

Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).


Pray tell, why do you think this?

Ganking-for-profit and/or making a "career" of same is arguably one of the last few remaining examples of truly emergent gameplay left in hisec, IMHO.

You've nerfed everything else into the ground, and the more pants-on-head ("Suspect-flag" but "suspect" can't shoot back without sec-loss and/or CONCORDokken--What. The. F-word????!!!) aspects of the proposed Crimewatcg thingy look to only make this effectively carved in stone if implemented.

No, really:

No troll, dead serious:

Why do you think this?

Nerfing emergent gameplay is very bad, OK?


IMHO the devs do not think of it as emergent game play but rather exploitive game play. Nice try though with an attempt to define it in preferable terms.


Nice, weak little straw-man, used as an even weaker little appeal to authority, bru. Fail.

If the devs really thought that it was "exploitative," then they would have declared it an exploit--because CCP has shown that they really don't like that sort of thing, as well they shouldn't--with the appropriate penalties for exploiting, and/or hard-mechanic fixing so it's not even do-able (ref.: The utterly senseless hard-nerf of the OPs "Tornado Bootlegger's Turn" manoeuvre).

This has not happened now, nor has it ever. There is also nothing explicitly even implying that it will, that has been said by anyone with a blue tag by their avatar.

Learn to debate.

Next!

E:

I want to hear Soundwave's answer to this, not some fluffy/squishy little WoW-kid's answer who thinks that EVE should be like WoW so that he doesn't have to use brain or ::effort:: to succeed in it.


lol, WoW nice touch. Never played that title however. You but hurt?

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#892 - 2012-07-26 23:27:05 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I personally don't, but the ISDs in the rookie chats do. So what? File a lawsuit against them?


That is goddamned terrible advice to tell somebody - it's like saying "don't bother going to nullsec until you can fly a titan"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#893 - 2012-07-26 23:27:13 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
if tech doesn't start going up, it will go down

or stay the same, one of the two


Lol

Nice! Almost as good as that "other" guy that shall not be named. Judging by his posts, he's probably too dumb to get it.

Also, don't forget to remind us of your prediction whenever there's a price movement, either way. Blink
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#894 - 2012-07-26 23:27:46 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i don't think xxxdeathxxx cares about anything tbh...


hi we own space

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#895 - 2012-07-26 23:28:07 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Ah, last but not least, maybe people would be more agreeing with the claims if they were not:

- Called "stupid Pigs" right here.

- Made subject of WWII copied manifestos by other "ideologists" for months.

- Pictured like they are the ultimate evil that should be eradicated from the game. "They are all bots anyway".



-Hey, its an amusing analogy to a well known fairy tale. I fail to see the issue.

-Well, at least we know where we want to go, and how to get there.

-I mainly just want to see bad players eradicated from the game - oh, and mineral prices to be as high as possible.

There are crying-Miners, entitled, self righteous, refuse to take even basic steps to protect themselves.

And then, there are hard-Miners that use teamwork, learn to fit - and play smart in the face of threats.

Those I consider an asset to the game and I often quite like.

Reminds me Chris Rock's famous standup routine from the 90's.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#896 - 2012-07-26 23:29:13 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:


The new mack has a much better tank than the hulk, both old and new. It's going to be in the ''unlikely'' ganking bracket most of the time and the **** you bracket in a 0.9 and over.


Well it had half the Hulk tank for years, time for some revenge. Twisted

But joking aside, mining ships like that will fall in the same category of the others: you kill them because of an agenda or because they are pimped or because they are carrying valuable stuff. Not because it's completely free ISK even killing the bare hull.


I have never mined ice. But with the size of the ore bay on a mack how much is a full ore bay of ice worth?

Or for that matter a full ore bay of veldspar on a covetor of a procurer, or etc...


Depends on before or after the patch and whether it's expanded or not. From 6 blocks upwards to enough to repay 1 of the catalyst(s) needed to suicide it.

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Dave Stark
#897 - 2012-07-26 23:29:42 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
except there are very few people in null that give a flying **** about industry


yeah i'm sure my supercarrier was built by somebody who doesn't give a flying **** about industry


yeah it's a handful of people doing that **** who are all more or less self sufficient. i've seen how big null sec alliances industry works. it's not one account friendly to people trying to participate. not to mention finding corps who want industrial players over players who want to go and blow things up.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#898 - 2012-07-26 23:30:27 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
i don't think xxxdeathxxx cares about anything tbh...


hi we own space


like the Chanel?

no that is the bell network dude.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#899 - 2012-07-26 23:31:37 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I personally don't, but the ISDs in the rookie chats do. So what? File a lawsuit against them?


That is goddamned terrible advice to tell somebody - it's like saying "don't bother going to nullsec until you can fly a titan"

I'm pretty much used to seeing ISD advice of this quality in help chat.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#900 - 2012-07-26 23:32:46 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
if tech doesn't start going up, it will go down

or stay the same, one of the two


Lol

Nice! Almost as good as that "other" guy that shall not be named. Judging by his posts, he's probably too dumb to get it.

Also, don't forget to remind us of your prediction whenever there's a price movement, either way. Blink


That's why the dumb guy has his articles posted and praised on RL trading websites and works with a RL trader associate.

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