These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Communication Center » EVE General Discussion » Barge Fairy Tale

Topic is locked indefinitely.

First pagePrevious page4041424344Next pageLast page

Barge Fairy Tale First post First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#821 - 2012-07-26 22:20:18 UTC

Richard Desturned wrote:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field:

Link

i guess the 99% will otherwise have to cope with getting ganked, then

obviously CCP disagrees because they're aiming to make hisec nearly risk-free

Considering Jita is the system with the game wide top ship kills, maybe they should upgrade the rest of the game to be as risk free as hi sec can be.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials

Mara Rinn

Cosmic Goo Convertor

Likes received: 6,095

#822 - 2012-07-26 22:20:51 UTC

Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

It did not make any sense to charge a fee before this because it was profitable for the most part.

The only "profitable" ganking was untanked, max-yield cargo-expanded hulks and mackinaws. If someone was to pay people to keep all miners out of the belts, that was possible too (Blue Ice interdiction is the most memorable case).

Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

CCP is changing the dynamics so this is a viable option.

Nope. The barge buff means that it is much harder to blow up mining ships, which means that you'll need to pay people a lot more money to keep your competition out of the belts. Along with this will be a fall in the value of minerals, so it won't be worth as much to you to get the competition out of the belts.

Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

You can not PvP combat with war ships for a living. It will drain your funds. As should ganking miners. As said by CCP.

Yet datacore harvesting was moved to FW to make FW profitable for the participants. Faction warfare is profitable if you're not stupid about losing ships. PvP is always profitable if you can get more ISK from the other pilot's loot and salvage than it cost you to blow up that ship.

Now feel free to complain that I've quoted you out of context.

Day 0 Advice for New Players

Richard Desturned

Royal Amarr Institute

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 1,853

#823 - 2012-07-26 22:21:25 UTC

EvilweaselSA wrote:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Richard Desturned wrote:

okay, here is one with t2 harvesters

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Mackinaw%20-%20New%20Setup%202.jpg

And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field:

Link

"miners don't use orcas"

a thing vv, noted expert on miners, believes

yeah it's more important for miners to get that 500m orca mindlink than it is to get, say, a +3% cpu hardwiring

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#824 - 2012-07-26 22:21:33 UTC

EvilweaselSA wrote:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Richard Desturned wrote:

okay, here is one with t2 harvesters

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Mackinaw%20-%20New%20Setup%202.jpg

And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field:

Link

"miners don't use orcas"

a thing vv, noted expert on miners, believes

There's max 2-3 Orcas in a ice system with 100 in local and they have 3-4 ships around. Ah, when I was there one of those Orcas was mine.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials

Werst Dendenahzees

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 125

#825 - 2012-07-26 22:21:41 UTC

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Richard Desturned wrote:

okay, here is one with t2 harvesters

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Mackinaw%20-%20New%20Setup%202.jpg

And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field:

Link

That's still a whole lot of EHP. It's three t2 cats in a 0.5-0.7 system and two tornados in 0.9-1.0. And it's before the buff.

Herr Hammer Draken

Likes received: 234

#826 - 2012-07-26 22:22:43 UTC

Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:

CCP Soundwave wrote:

[multiple-quote snippy-snippy]

Yeah my point is that I don't think they should be profitable to gank. I think it should be possible, but not necessarily profitable (profitable might be the wrong word, but more that the expenses should be higher for the attacker than the defender).

Pray tell, why do you think this?

Ganking-for-profit and/or making a "career" of same is arguably one of the last few remaining examples of truly emergent gameplay left in hisec, IMHO.

You've nerfed everything else into the ground, and the more pants-on-head ("Suspect-flag" but "suspect" can't shoot back without sec-loss and/or CONCORDokken--What. The. F-word????!!!) aspects of the proposed Crimewatcg thingy look to only make this effectively carved in stone if implemented.

No, really:

No troll, dead serious:

Why do you think this?

Nerfing emergent gameplay is very bad, OK?

IMHO the devs do not think of it as emergent game play but rather exploitive game play. Nice try though with an attempt to define it in preferable terms.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#827 - 2012-07-26 22:23:47 UTC

Richard Desturned wrote:

EvilweaselSA wrote:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Richard Desturned wrote:

okay, here is one with t2 harvesters

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Mackinaw%20-%20New%20Setup%202.jpg

And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field:

Link

"miners don't use orcas"

a thing vv, noted expert on miners, believes

yeah it's more important for miners to get that 500m orca mindlink than it is to get, say, a +3% cpu hardwiring

In order to show splashy numbers you put everything in your EFT theorycraft book, anyway, no?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials


Richard Desturned Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,853	#828 - 2012-07-26 22:23:54 UTC 1 Herr Hammer Draken wrote: IMHO the devs do not think of it as emergent game play but rather exploitive game play. Nice try though with an attempt to define it in preferable terms. "suicide ganking is an exploit" - npc alts, ca. since ever npc alts have no opinions worth consideration


Richard Desturned Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,853	#829 - 2012-07-26 22:25:00 UTC Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: In order to show splashy numbers you put everything in your EFT theorycraft book, anyway, no? have you bothered to check the cost of those implants i assure you that the total cost is like 50m, total chump change compared to, say, an orca + ganglinks + mindlink npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Big Bossu

Primal Instinct Inc.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 8

#830 - 2012-07-26 22:25:16 UTC | Edited by: Big Bossu

Richard Desturned wrote:

Big Bossu wrote:

Sort of like 0.0? It is not like you need to gimp your ISK/h in 0.0/lowsec, just to avoid risk in lowsec/null. Even lvl4ing Raven doesn't need to do that. And it is not like the hulks will became ungankable...

because gimping your ~isk/hr~ in low/null is pointless considering that you're almost undoubtedly screwed if you get tackled

also fyi the best anom/mission fits generally pull it off with like one invuln and a booster, they don't overtank

It is also remarkably hard to get tackled in 0.0/low, because their safety depends on watching scanner for probes/local. Perhaps they should be forced to make choices between more isk/h and more safety as well?

Besides... CCP was worried about lack of mining/miners, so they buff miners by giving them stronger ships, so they could go for full yield without worrying about destroyer ganks - that isn't unreasonable way to boost them at all.

edit : it is sad that 0.0 alliances are crying about highsec, rather than playing the game in 0.0.


Richard Desturned Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,853	#831 - 2012-07-26 22:25:27 UTC 1 Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: There's max 2-3 Orcas in a ice system with 100 in local and they have 3-4 ships around. Ah, when I was there one of those Orcas was mine. "you must have one orca per miner" - vv, 2012 npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#832 - 2012-07-26 22:26:23 UTC

Werst Dendenahzees wrote:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Richard Desturned wrote:

okay, here is one with t2 harvesters

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Mackinaw%20-%20New%20Setup%202.jpg

And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field:

Link

That's still a whole lot of EHP. It's three t2 cats in a 0.5-0.7 system and two tornados in 0.9-1.0. And it's before the buff.

I am not sure you need them T2 fit but I am sure (I used to see it every day) 3 cats are nothing special to see.

You should know, Bat Contry are not morons. They blew and still blow stuff.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#833 - 2012-07-26 22:27:31 UTC

Richard Desturned wrote:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

In order to show splashy numbers you put everything in your EFT theorycraft book, anyway, no?

have you bothered to check the cost of those implants

i assure you that the total cost is like 50m, total chump change compared to, say, an orca + ganglinks + mindlink

The dedicated Tengu PLUS Orca were in the screen shot, they cost somewhat more than 50M

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials

Richard Desturned

Royal Amarr Institute

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 1,853

#834 - 2012-07-26 22:27:36 UTC

Big Bossu wrote:

Besides... CCP was worried about lack of mining/miners, so they buff miners by giving them stronger ships, so they could go for full yield without worrying about destroyer ganks - that isn't unreasonable way to boost them at all.

as opposed to miners who aren't even watching the client, let alone local

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Herr Hammer Draken

Likes received: 234

#835 - 2012-07-26 22:28:29 UTC | Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken

Mara Rinn wrote:

Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

It did not make any sense to charge a fee before this because it was profitable for the most part.

Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

CCP is changing the dynamics so this is a viable option.

Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

You can not PvP combat with war ships for a living. It will drain your funds. As should ganking miners. As said by CCP.

If you get to loot the salvage, if you win those are big ifs. In high sec ganking miners there are no ifs you always get the salvage, unless you are an idiot ganker. Big difference in risk for the player. Which would you rather do for a living?
One that had a chance to fail or one where you can control all of the outcome every last bit of it. One where once you pulled the trigger you knew you had everything covered and would make out like a bandit.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"


Richard Desturned Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,853	#836 - 2012-07-26 22:28:39 UTC 1 Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: The dedicated Tengu PLUS Orca were in the screen shot, they cost somewhat more than 50M the orca can fit a shield resistance ganglink, the miners will have to live with reduced range or slightly higher activation cost on their miners/harvesters poor miners npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#837 - 2012-07-26 22:28:43 UTC

Richard Desturned wrote:

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

There's max 2-3 Orcas in a ice system with 100 in local and they have 3-4 ships around. Ah, when I was there one of those Orcas was mine.

"you must have one orca per miner" - vv, 2012

You out of rebuttals? I have 1 Orca per 6 miners, if I wanted I could bring 2 Orcas per each miner though.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials


Richard Desturned Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,853	#838 - 2012-07-26 22:29:40 UTC 1 Herr Hammer Draken wrote: One where once you pulled the trigger you knew you had everything covered and would make out like a bandit. miner launches medium ECM drones and permajams one of the catalysts, flubbing the gank entirely npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Mara Rinn

Cosmic Goo Convertor

Likes received: 6,095

#839 - 2012-07-26 22:30:13 UTC

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

And here is the same fitting without all the fluff nobody bar 1% of the playerbase will ever care to bring on the field: …

Orcas are the core of most mining fleets I see in the belts, regardless of whether they are accompanied by two hulks or two dozen mackinaws. People bring Orcas for the logistical benefits: not having to warp back to station every few cycles means you get a higher harvesting efficiency. The fleets with more than a half-dozen exhumers are often accompanied by a gang booster ship such as a Tengu.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that "nobody bar 1% of the player base" will use boosting ships or Orcas.

Day 0 Advice for New Players

Vaerah Vahrokha

Vahrokh Consulting

Likes received: 5,809

#840 - 2012-07-26 22:30:30 UTC

Richard Desturned wrote:

Big Bossu wrote:

as opposed to miners who aren't even watching the client, let alone local

Because L4 mission runners and PI players or hi sec anom farmers need to rabidly watch the client and squeeze out their eyes on local...

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials

First pagePrevious page4041424344Next pageLast page