These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Barge Fairy Tale

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3061 - 2012-08-29 15:54:17 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.

You bring up a good point if you want to pack your ships with a volatile substance and smash into a hulk so you can die a permadeath while screaming for Allah, be my guest.

Other than that it doesn't make much sense, kind of like firing a machine gun at a battleship and hoping it sinks.


Yet you & others keep bringing up the comparison.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#3062 - 2012-08-29 16:12:22 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.

You bring up a good point if you want to pack your ships with a volatile substance and smash into a hulk so you can die a permadeath while screaming for Allah, be my guest.



wtb this mechanic

Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Buck Futz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3063 - 2012-08-29 16:31:18 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.

You bring up a good point if you want to pack your ships with a volatile substance and smash into a hulk so you can die a permadeath while screaming for Allah, be my guest.

Other than that it doesn't make much sense, kind of like firing a machine gun at a battleship and hoping it sinks.


Alright then. Suppose that CCP grants you your wish and allows the Hulk/Mack to have guns in the high slots.

How many miners would actually use those slots for guns? My guess is they would still fit Strip miners.

I mean, they don't use their mid slots, low slots OR rig slots for tank - why would they use their high slots for guns instead of more yield? Thats what this whole thread is about. Miners refuse to compromise income - which makes them easy targets, and CCP simply accommodated that pig-headed attitude with a ridiculous patch.

Why all the crying about 'cant shoot back'? Seriously?

And besides, suicide gankers only expect to live about 15 seconds anyway, because Concord is constantly being ratched up in power - do you think miners shooting back will make a difference?
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#3064 - 2012-08-29 17:35:11 UTC
This is still a whine thread, even with the OP changed beyond recognition.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Dog Biscuit
Doomheim
#3065 - 2012-08-29 17:36:34 UTC
ISD did it
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#3066 - 2012-08-29 18:58:11 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.

You bring up a good point if you want to pack your ships with a volatile substance and smash into a hulk so you can die a permadeath while screaming for Allah, be my guest.

Other than that it doesn't make much sense, kind of like firing a machine gun at a battleship and hoping it sinks.


Alright then. Suppose that CCP grants you your wish and allows the Hulk/Mack to have guns in the high slots.

How many miners would actually use those slots for guns? My guess is they would still fit Strip miners.

I mean, they don't use their mid slots, low slots OR rig slots for tank - why would they use their high slots for guns instead of more yield? Thats what this whole thread is about. Miners refuse to compromise income - which makes them easy targets, and CCP simply accommodated that pig-headed attitude with a ridiculous patch.

Why all the crying about 'cant shoot back'? Seriously?

And besides, suicide gankers only expect to live about 15 seconds anyway, because Concord is constantly being ratched up in power - do you think miners shooting back will make a difference?



I can haz strip mine your ships? :3
Just make miners overload to do damage, tah da! Problem solved.
Dajli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3067 - 2012-08-29 19:20:55 UTC
I find it fascinating and sad the obsession that "null seccers" and "gankers" have with making high sec a safer place. I really don't see a problem other than people not getting what they want.

Cry moar Nulls.
Pipa Porto
#3068 - 2012-08-30 00:35:25 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

Comparing the Hulk's capabilities to a Combat ship is silly and you should feel silly. It's like saying the Freighter's underpowered because it can't fit a DCII and a Cargo Expander. The equivalent to the Thorax's Magstabs are built into the hull. Adding more MLUs costs you your shot at defense.

Yeah because it would be stupid if a ship designed for mining with all these combat ships around to actually have reasonable defenses, the fact is exactly that it makes no sense at all to design a mining ship that can just get blown out of the water by any old crap T1 or 3 in the case of catalysts.
As to adding more MLUs actually I haven't used them in years and the tank for such an expensive ship was a bloody joke. To use your freighter example, the old hulk was like having an obelisk with only 80k ehp but I suppose that would make a lot of sense to you as well.

Your whole argument is it is so nasty now that 3 T1 destroyers can't kill a T2 ship with a Mass 7 times there combined mass.

I noticed you didn't reply about ganking ships that can shoot back and I think that is the whole point to this thread.

You want easy kills that can't shoot you back.


Nope. The Hulks had perfectly fine defenses, as shown by the fact that they were unprofitable to gank anywhere in HS if properly fitted. They tanked about as well as a number of HACs (who also could be profitably ganked if fitted similarly to the way Hulk pilots fitted their ships).

Really, just about any T2 ship can be ganked profitably if fit the way most Hulk pilots fitted their ships. The difference is that most pilots of these other ships understand that you need to take some measures to protect yourself.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3069 - 2012-08-30 00:39:06 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.

You bring up a good point if you want to pack your ships with a volatile substance and smash into a hulk so you can die a permadeath while screaming for Allah, be my guest.



wtb this mechanic


It already exists, one of the advanced military tutorials involves flying a frigate packed with explosives into a NPC structure.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Frying Doom
#3070 - 2012-08-30 01:44:10 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Saede Riordan wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.

You bring up a good point if you want to pack your ships with a volatile substance and smash into a hulk so you can die a permadeath while screaming for Allah, be my guest.



wtb this mechanic


It already exists, one of the advanced military tutorials involves flying a frigate packed with explosives into a NPC structure.

but you are not permadead afterwards. Hell if you where that would make for a short set of tutorial missions Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Pipa Porto
#3071 - 2012-08-30 04:53:28 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Saede Riordan wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.

You bring up a good point if you want to pack your ships with a volatile substance and smash into a hulk so you can die a permadeath while screaming for Allah, be my guest.



wtb this mechanic


It already exists, one of the advanced military tutorials involves flying a frigate packed with explosives into a NPC structure.

but you are not permadead afterwards. Hell if you where that would make for a short set of tutorial missions Lol



Tutorial: Lesson Learned, Don't do EVE Tutorial. Pirate

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
pussnheels
Viziam
#3072 - 2012-08-30 10:25:10 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
And gankers got them selves a nice gankmobile in the form of the tornado but now need to put in more work setting up their gank
Both win and lose


So you're going to skip right over the fact that at the same time the tornado was introduced and the destroyers got buffed, ganking got a direct nerf in the form of insurance payouts meaning that, overall the cost to gank anything increased... OK.



.

That wasn t a nerf that was balacing , you know damn well if CCP hadnt change the insurance mechanics with the introduction of the tornado , there wouldn t be any miners laft

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Pipa Porto
#3073 - 2012-08-30 10:36:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
pussnheels wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
And gankers got them selves a nice gankmobile in the form of the tornado but now need to put in more work setting up their gank
Both win and lose


So you're going to skip right over the fact that at the same time the tornado was introduced and the destroyers got buffed, ganking got a direct nerf in the form of insurance payouts meaning that, overall the cost to gank anything increased... OK.



.

That wasn t a nerf that was balacing , you know damn well if CCP hadnt change the insurance mechanics with the introduction of the tornado , there wouldn t be any miners laft


But you just said that the Miners got their shiny new EHP buff as the balance to the Tornado...

Which is it?

(By the way, the balance of the Crucible changes dramatically increased the cost to gank anything.)

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
pussnheels
Viziam
#3074 - 2012-08-30 11:20:25 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
And gankers got them selves a nice gankmobile in the form of the tornado but now need to put in more work setting up their gank
Both win and lose


So you're going to skip right over the fact that at the same time the tornado was introduced and the destroyers got buffed, ganking got a direct nerf in the form of insurance payouts meaning that, overall the cost to gank anything increased... OK.



.

That wasn t a nerf that was balacing , you know damn well if CCP hadnt change the insurance mechanics with the introduction of the tornado , there wouldn t be any miners laft


But you just said that the Miners got their shiny new EHP buff as the balance to the Tornado...

Which is it?

(By the way, the balance of the Crucible changes dramatically increased the cost to gank anything.)


no the barges got rebalanced to give players the ship that matches their playstyle , those that don't care about ganks will never tank and go for maxyield those that are paranoid about gankers now have the chance to tank their exhumers , what they do is their choice , did they had a choice before the patch when they were ganked , not really especially not against a determined gank attempt
and don't forget that the tornado was launched 10 months before the barge rebalancing patch
with out that insurrance rbalance and between the barge patch it would have been a complete bloodbath, it was already pretty bloody
and it is still pretty easy to gank exhumers except that if you are unlucky enough to pick a smart/paranoid miner you lose out

profits you say you might be doing this out of profit , most of them didn't most of them did it because they can and what is more fun for a idiotic whitetrash moronic teenager than to blow up things , except for setting fire to the neighbers petcat

i never saw any profit in ganking exhumers and i still can not believe that you can make a profit out of it

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Pipa Porto
#3075 - 2012-08-30 23:01:35 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
no the barges got rebalanced to give players the ship that matches their playstyle , those that don't care about ganks will never tank and go for maxyield those that are paranoid about gankers now have the chance to tank their exhumers , what they do is their choice , did they had a choice before the patch when they were ganked , not really especially not against a determined gank attempt
and don't forget that the tornado was launched 10 months before the barge rebalancing patch
with out that insurrance rbalance and between the barge patch it would have been a complete bloodbath, it was already pretty bloody
and it is still pretty easy to gank exhumers except that if you are unlucky enough to pick a smart/paranoid miner you lose out

profits you say you might be doing this out of profit , most of them didn't most of them did it because they can and what is more fun for a idiotic whitetrash moronic teenager than to blow up things , except for setting fire to the neighbers petcat

i never saw any profit in ganking exhumers and i still can not believe that you can make a profit out of it


Every Exhumer got an EHP buff. Every style of mining got an EHP buff. Since there's only one reason why Barges need EHP, that's a direct nerf to ganking.

That's not a rebalance, that's an across-the-board buff. That, as you've just said, was not offset in any way on the ganker's side.

So, Crucible nerfed Ganking (by increasing the cost of ganking anything), then the Barge Buff nerfs ganking again. And you're saying it's just a "balance."


A Rebalance would have left the Mackinaw and the Hulk with tanks lower than the tanked hulk pre-buff. This would be balanced by the Skiff's giant honking tank. Giving people a choice. Weather Ganks in a Skiff, or use active methods to avoid them in a Mackinaw/Hulk. Then you have a further choice between hauling (convenience) and yield (income).

Tank, Convenience, Income. One ship for each. Instead, every ship gets a Tank buff. The Tank ship also gets a Convenience Buff, and the Convenience ship gets enough Tank that the Tank ship is irrelevant.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3076 - 2012-08-30 23:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
So, Crucible nerfed Ganking (by increasing the cost of ganking anything), then the Barge Buff nerfs ganking again. And you're saying it's just a "balance."


- 1500 dps Catalyst
- Tornado

Should CCP give ganking ships a EHP buff too? Or maybe more damage?

After all full gank Catalyst can be two volleyd with 800mm AC Tornado.
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3077 - 2012-08-31 00:01:48 UTC
My nightmare with no tank whatsoever and all mining lasers can be ganked by a tornado. nerf tornados.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3078 - 2012-08-31 00:16:12 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
So, Crucible nerfed Ganking (by increasing the cost of ganking anything), then the Barge Buff nerfs ganking again. And you're saying it's just a "balance."


- 1500 dps Catalyst
- Tornado

Should CCP give ganking ships a EHP buff too? Or maybe more damage?

After all full gank Catalyst can be two volleyd with 800mm AC Tornado.


Post the eft block for that 1500 DPS catalyst.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Pipa Porto
#3079 - 2012-08-31 00:18:39 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
So, Crucible nerfed Ganking (by increasing the cost of ganking anything), then the Barge Buff nerfs ganking again. And you're saying it's just a "balance."


- 1500 dps Catalyst
- Tornado

Should CCP give ganking ships a EHP buff too? Or maybe more damage?

After all full gank Catalyst can be two volleyd with 800mm AC Tornado.


I'll let Ray Bolger explain what's going on in your post.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Frying Doom
#3080 - 2012-08-31 00:41:53 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.

You bring up a good point if you want to pack your ships with a volatile substance and smash into a hulk so you can die a permadeath while screaming for Allah, be my guest.

Other than that it doesn't make much sense, kind of like firing a machine gun at a battleship and hoping it sinks.


Alright then. Suppose that CCP grants you your wish and allows the Hulk/Mack to have guns in the high slots.

How many miners would actually use those slots for guns? My guess is they would still fit Strip miners.

I mean, they don't use their mid slots, low slots OR rig slots for tank - why would they use their high slots for guns instead of more yield? Thats what this whole thread is about. Miners refuse to compromise income - which makes them easy targets, and CCP simply accommodated that pig-headed attitude with a ridiculous patch.

Why all the crying about 'cant shoot back'? Seriously?

And besides, suicide gankers only expect to live about 15 seconds anyway, because Concord is constantly being ratched up in power - do you think miners shooting back will make a difference?


Actually its not crying about "cant shoot back', it is merely stating that the mining barges give up that ability to be better at mining so why shouldn't they have an effective tank like they do now.

Actually I love the mining barge changes as you have the ability to be tanked like hell all the way down to a light tank or almost no tank if you don't want one.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!