EVE General Discussion

People too greedy, stupid or both made them appear too weak. Fitting a shield booster in the mids & continuing to fit cargo rigs & yield lows does not count as tanking your mining ship. Unfortunately a lot of miners could not get this around their heads.
If I want to have an awesome armour tank on a ship, I have to sacrifice dps capability & mobility. If I want an awesome shield tank, I have to sacrifice utility & some dps if I want to have more mobility. It was exactly the same for miners.

As it stands now, if a miner wants to have a good tank, he doesn't have to sacrifice a thing because his Mackinaw not only has a carghold that lasts for an hour, but a base tank that rivals battlecruisers before fitting any mods. Please tell me how that makes them balanced?

You're trying to compare T2 hulls with T1 hulls in regards to skilling. Yes, training for T2 hulls does take longer than training for a T1 BC... So yes, you were correct in saying "No comparison possible". However, you can skill for a retriever & use it efficiently in a little over a week.
The fact remains that if you want to be good at one thing, you have to sacrifice other capabilities. This no longer applies to mining ships. I mean you can literally make a Skiff tank better than a HIC & it's a fair bit cheaper too, all the while happily chewing away at whatever asteroid.

They can. They always could.

They just couldn't have Convenience, Tank, and the best yield in the game all at the same time.

The Rokh had great yield, great tank, but was inconvenient.
The Hulk (Cargo Rigged, 2 MLUs) had the best yield in the game, poor tank, and was pretty convenient.
The Hulk (Tanked) had great yield, good enough tank, and reasonable convenience.
The Hulk (All Cargo) had great yield, poor tank, and fantastic convenience.


The Miners just got the idea that they were entitled to have the best yield in the game without having to give up anything else mining related.


(By the way, claiming that Mining barges are giving something up by not being able to fit 8 missile launchers is like claiming the Abaddon's giving up something because it can't fit a whole rack of missile launchers instead of just 1, it's an insane argument and you look silly making it.)

The point of those barge changes was to make it so they could not be profitably ganked at the base level. Here's a shocker: You could already do that. You could get them to 38k EHP with out using expensive modules & they could not be profitably ganked.

When is this thread going to die

Barges didnt got a buff they still yield the same amount even lass if you tank them which isn t really that simple finding the right balance between yield and protectin
And gankers got them selves a nice gankmobile in the form of the tornado but now need to put in more work setting up their gank
Both win and lose
What is worrying me most is that alot of miners flying around with a false sense of security and soon some of them start demanding new buff and we have thise debate aml over again

Gankers are always welcome to shoot my full tank no-MLU Procurer.

You might want to check that the fitting states "Effective HP: 26,653" not 38k, its only 36k in kinetic/thermal

Also some of the comments
One said "Catalyst has 700 dps, overheated.

Concord response time is almost 30 seconds in a 0.5 system, Ryu so your times are wrong. 0.8 is closer at 10/12 seconds iirc, maybe 15 secs. Longer if there's been a diversion to drag Concord away."

So 700dps is 21000 in 30 seconds so 2 catalysts and it goes BOOM!

Yeah really not profitable to gank, if you so 50% of the module cost is still 13 million and then you have the salvage off of a T2 ship. So you don't make a huge profit but it was still profitable and a thorax costing 36,140,583 so 1/8 the cost has stats almost the same
Thorax
"EHP: 31,302 / RESISTS: EM 68,1% TH 58,6% KN 58,6% EX 42,6%

DPS: 615 / VOLLEY: 802 / OPTIMAL: 2,3 + 1,9 FALLOFF - WITH: VOID M - and DRONES

DRONES DPS: 158,4 / TURRET DPS: 456,8/ 525,3 OVERHEATED for short time

CAP lasts: 2m 43s / STABLE at 71% w/o MWD

MOBILITY: 1212m/s 10,4s align with MWD / 204m/s 8s align w/o MWD / 1715 MWD heat

You can also swap both MAG STABS for another EANM and a EXPLOSIVE HARDENER ( you'll need to swap the web and the scrambler to named ones to save cpu for this, they are more expansive but the same.) gaining 12k EHP but losing 124 of the DPS."

and it can shoot back.

It was just stupid that a T1 cruiser could have the same armour levels as a T2 mining ship that has no offensive capability.

So you're going to skip right over the fact that at the same time the tornado was introduced and the destroyers got buffed, ganking got a direct nerf in the form of insurance payouts meaning that, overall the cost to gank anything increased... OK.





To start, Concord response time is 20s in a .5 system, thanks to the CONCORD response time buff that was quietly put into place a while ago. So a proper fit Hulk would require 3 T2 Catalysts (or a swarm of cheapfit Catalysts if you have the manpower). Thanks for playing, you're not making money there.


As for the rest,
Comparing the Hulk's capabilities to a Combat ship is silly and you should feel silly. It's like saying the Freighter's underpowered because it can't fit a DCII and a Cargo Expander. The equivalent to the Thorax's Magstabs are built into the hull. Adding more MLUs costs you your shot at defense.

Yeah because it would be stupid if a ship designed for mining with all these combat ships around to actually have reasonable defenses, the fact is exactly that it makes no sense at all to design a mining ship that can just get blown out of the water by any old crap T1 or 3 in the case of catalysts.
As to adding more MLUs actually I haven't used them in years and the tank for such an expensive ship was a bloody joke. To use your freighter example, the old hulk was like having an obelisk with only 80k ehp but I suppose that would make a lot of sense to you as well.

Your whole argument is it is so nasty now that 3 T1 destroyers can't kill a T2 ship with a Mass 7 times there combined mass.

I noticed you didn't reply about ganking ships that can shoot back and I think that is the whole point to this thread.

You want easy kills that can't shoot you back.

You keep bringing up cost & size comparisons when neither of them are valid arguments. I'm pretty sure the size, mass & cost of the WTC towers was a lot higher than the planes that brought them down.

What exactly is stopping a mining ship from shooting back? We all know they can use drones.