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Barge Fairy Tale

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2941 - 2012-08-07 22:46:16 UTC
rodyas wrote:

Because they are too afraid to be lame. I am not that way, but they are. It is kind of irksome they are that way, but who knows what to do about it.


Or they wanted to balance it right. CCP have improved the barges survivability but not to the point where they are out of reach of ganking.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2942 - 2012-08-07 22:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Nerf Burger wrote:
alright,, I guess i have to spell it out for you. Its obviously not supposed to be a viable profession. This has been confirmed by a DEV. Only with recent changes has minger ganking become reliably profitable, an obvious mistake. A dev TOLD YOU and you are still here saying the sky is black. Anyway, I'm done wasting my time arguing with forum dwellers that can't grasp risk/reward, simple concepts and other perspectives. Have fun dedicating your life to posting here, arguing like a radio.


you're bleating risk/reward while saying "suicide ganking should not be profitable"

do i really need to tell you how damned ironic that is?

also, I don't care what the devs say in this regard because no matter how many times they try to convince us (or themselves) that it was "never intended to be profitable," it was

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#2943 - 2012-08-07 22:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Richard Desturned wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:

I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. Like soundwave, I LOVE that it is possible. I just don't think it should be profitable, easy, and with such a predictable result.


Lets say I fully expand an Iteron V and fill it with Estamel's Invulns. Thats 8369 modules at 18bil a piece, or 150,642,000,000,000ISK of value. Lets assume a gank fit Tornado is the best value for money at 150mil a ship it does roughly 10.5k alpha and in low highsec gets 2 shots off before Concord shows up. To lose isk it would take 1,004,280 Tornados. So an untanked, fully expanded Iteron V should have 21,089,880 EHP. Thats just over half the health of a fully officer tanked titan.

But thats ok because ganking isn't supposed to be profitable.


oh please, you can fill an expanded Iteron V with ∞ titan blueprints so they should have ∞ EHP


were talking about reliable profitability here and common occurrences. You can't go out daily and find cargholds full of loot like you can find miners in nearly every system in high sec. And why should gankers have all the advantages without any risk.

ugh, why do i do it?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2944 - 2012-08-07 22:51:34 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:

were talking about reliable profitability here and common occurrences. You can't go out daily and find cargholds full of loot like you can find miners in nearly every system in high sec.

ugh, why do i do it?


Clearly you haven't scanned the haulers going in and out of jita.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2945 - 2012-08-07 22:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Pipa Porto wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Well that strategy mostly works, if you use a damage control unit If you don't use one, might not be worth getting the extra life from lvl 5 skills. Even then, you might still be gankable, so the entire effort is worthless.


So now the problem is being gankable at all. I see. I thought you were OK with suicide ganks, just not profitable ones.


Well good point, a lot of views and gameplay kind of flows back and forth during these discussions, and its hard to always be in one flow.

I don't really support ganking being profitable, unless it npc ganking. Kind of like how missions are or ratting. (But people usually get bored ganking NPCs unless its a main boss or something. Like Sansha herself appearing in an incursion, people might line up to gank her.)

The other flow or gameplay, is how overwhelming the gankers seem to be. It seems like you are surrounded by them, and they will never leave or go away. That gameplay is the one I was talking about in that post. Like has been said here, even if ganking was unprofitable, pilots would still try to gank you. Which ends up leaving you feel, like you are surrounded by them, and they will never leave ya alone.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2946 - 2012-08-07 22:53:18 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:

were talking about reliable profitability here and common occurrences. You can't go out daily and find cargholds full of loot like you can find miners in nearly every system in high sec.

ugh, why do i do it?


Because most of the people who move 500m ISK of stuff do it in a tanked or cloaked hauler, or something fast enough to not get caught.

The miners still persist in leaving their 500m ISK ships untanked.

The problem here is not game mechanics, the problem is miners.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2947 - 2012-08-07 22:54:31 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
were talking about reliable profitability here and common occurrences. You can't go out daily and find cargholds full of loot like you can find miners in nearly every system in high sec

Because most of the people who move 500m ISK of stuff do it in a tanked or cloaked hauler, or something fast enough to not get caught.

The miners still persist in leaving their 500m ISK ships untanked.

The problem here is not game mechanics, the problem is miners.

The solution is more buffs.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pipa Porto
#2948 - 2012-08-07 22:54:51 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
were talking about reliable profitability here and common occurrences. You can't go out daily and find cargholds full of loot like you can find miners in nearly every system in high sec.

ugh, why do i do it?


The Profit is only reliable because the Miners make it so. Freighter pilots long ago figured out that they usually can't fill their Freighter to the brim and make it where they want to go, so they adapted and limited the amount of ISK worth of cargo. Their cost for that adaptation is making more runs than they would have otherwise.

Miners could have adapted and made the profitability highly unreliable, and then Gankers complaining about profit wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But that's not what the Miners did. Instead, they went to mama CCP and cried for a buff to the poor, untankable (Roll) Hulk.

Now they're whining about crystals and cargo space, because the Hulk's no longer super convenient as well as super tanky and the best yielding ship in the game all at the same time.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2949 - 2012-08-07 22:57:53 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Now they're whining about crystals and cargo space, because the Hulk's no longer super convenient as well as super tanky and the best yielding ship in the game all at the same time.


they're also whining about CCP "kneeling to the gankers" and mostly taking away the hulk's idiot-proof tank

it's like a massive overload in irony

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Pipa Porto
#2950 - 2012-08-07 22:58:39 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Well that strategy mostly works, if you use a damage control unit If you don't use one, might not be worth getting the extra life from lvl 5 skills. Even then, you might still be gankable, so the entire effort is worthless.


So now the problem is being gankable at all. I see. I thought you were OK with suicide ganks, just not profitable ones.


Well good point, a lot of views and gameplay kind of flows back and forth during these discussions, and its hard to always be in one flow.

I don't really support ganking being profitable, unless it npc ganking. Kind of like how missions are or ratting. (But people usually get bored ganking NPCs unless its a main boss or something. Like Sansha herself appearing in an incursion, people might line up to gank her.)

The other flow or gameplay, is how overwhelming the gankers seem to be. It seems like you are surrounded by them, and they will never leave or go away. That gameplay is the one I was talking about in that post. Like has been said here, even if ganking was unprofitable, pilots would still try to gank you. Which ends up leaving you feel, like you are surrounded by them, and they will never leave ya alone.


Well that's just good PR on the gankers part (and a sensible unwillingness of successful, smart miners to pipe up).

Unprofitable Freighter Ganks are vanishingly rare, unprofitable Hulk ganks are hard to find on the KBs. Try mining in a tanked Hulk. Just because you're afraid the gankers are going to throw their money away on you doesn't mean they actually will.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#2951 - 2012-08-07 22:59:52 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Now they're whining about crystals and cargo space, because the Hulk's no longer super convenient as well as super tanky and the best yielding ship in the game all at the same time.


they're also whining about CCP "kneeling to the gankers" and mostly taking away the hulk's idiot-proof tank

it's like a massive overload in irony


I've even got one attacking me via EVEmail. I still can't figure out what I did to **** him off.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2952 - 2012-08-07 22:59:57 UTC
rodyas wrote:

Well good point, a lot of views and gameplay kind of flows back and forth during these discussions, and its hard to always be in one flow.

I don't really support ganking being profitable, unless it npc ganking. Kind of like how missions are or ratting. (But people usually get bored ganking NPCs unless its a main boss or something. Like Sansha herself appearing in an incursion, people might line up to gank her.)

The other flow or gameplay, is how overwhelming the gankers seem to be. It seems like you are surrounded by them, and they will never leave or go away. That gameplay is the one I was talking about in that post. Like has been said here, even if ganking was unprofitable, pilots would still try to gank you. Which ends up leaving you feel, like you are surrounded by them, and they will never leave ya alone.


The only place where ganking is overwhelming is these forums. In the game itself ganking is a rather rare event outside hulkageddon.
Hypercake Mix
#2953 - 2012-08-07 23:02:34 UTC
I'm expecting an increase in mining barge/exhumer suicide ganks this month.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2954 - 2012-08-07 23:03:33 UTC
I did mine in a tanked mining vessel once. But no one ganked me so everytime I undocked with a tank on I felt stupid. It felt like fitting bubbles on a hic, but you know you are only flying in low sec space.

If you could promise me everytime I undock someone would attempt to gank me, unprofitalbe or profitable I would fit a tank. (and not feel stupid)

but no one can promise that, so fitting a tank is boring and almost pointless.

Of course I was ice mining, I realized there are only a few places to mine ice, so its popular to go there to gank, Easy to find prey or its automatic to have some. So I will either not mine ice, or perhaps fit a tank to mine ice, depending if I feel a tank keeps me safe enough. Otherwise, I will propably bugger off to places harder to find prey, so gankers lose the sense of excitement, and I can mine in my own fashion.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2955 - 2012-08-07 23:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
rodyas wrote:
It felt like fitting bubbles on a hic, but you know you are only flying in low sec space.


let me tell you about the script you fit on that module

as for the rest of your post, I thought ganking was LITERALLY MAKING THE GAME UNPLAYABLE

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2956 - 2012-08-07 23:05:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
rodyas wrote:

Well good point, a lot of views and gameplay kind of flows back and forth during these discussions, and its hard to always be in one flow.

I don't really support ganking being profitable, unless it npc ganking. Kind of like how missions are or ratting. (But people usually get bored ganking NPCs unless its a main boss or something. Like Sansha herself appearing in an incursion, people might line up to gank her.)

The other flow or gameplay, is how overwhelming the gankers seem to be. It seems like you are surrounded by them, and they will never leave or go away. That gameplay is the one I was talking about in that post. Like has been said here, even if ganking was unprofitable, pilots would still try to gank you. Which ends up leaving you feel, like you are surrounded by them, and they will never leave ya alone.


The only place where ganking is overwhelming is these forums. In the game itself ganking is a rather rare event outside hulkageddon.


Yeah true, I am often left feeling that way, which leads to confusion on what to post about.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2957 - 2012-08-07 23:06:51 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
rodyas wrote:
It felt like fitting bubbles on a hic, but you know you are only flying in low sec space.


let me tell you about the script you fit on that module

as for the rest of your post, I thought ganking was LITERALLY MAKING THE GAME UNPLAYABLE


It was, but you adapt as you said. Of course parts of mining have to shut down during the adaptation stage (much like in movies in where the humanity is lost during the adaptation stage) So its not a complete adaptation, and still seeing if it is worth it or not.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2958 - 2012-08-07 23:07:49 UTC
rodyas wrote:

but no one can promise that, so fitting a tank is boring and almost pointless.


Are you really this dense? You fit a tank so that nobody tries to gank you. Nobody smart is going to see your tank and go for it anyway just to amuse you.
Pipa Porto
#2959 - 2012-08-07 23:08:42 UTC
rodyas wrote:
I did mine in a tanked mining vessel once. But no one ganked me so everytime I undocked with a tank on I felt stupid. It felt like fitting bubbles on a hic, but you know you are only flying in low sec space.

If you could promise me everytime I undock someone would attempt to gank me, unprofitalbe or profitable I would fit a tank. (and not feel stupid)

but no one can promise that, so fitting a tank is boring and almost pointless.

Of course I was ice mining, I realized there are only a few places to mine ice, so its popular to go there to gank, Easy to find prey or its automatic to have some. So I will either not mine ice, or perhaps fit a tank to mine ice, depending if I feel a tank keeps me safe enough. Otherwise, I will propably bugger off to places harder to find prey, so gankers lose the sense of excitement, and I can mine in my own fashion.


Let me tell you about the last time I wore my seatbelt....
Let me tell you about the last time I took an Umbrella along...
Let me tell you about the last time I wore a Helmet Skiing (actually, that one, I crashed and broke my arm... [:sigh:])...

A Tank is a safety device that has the added benefit of deterring the same unsafe elements it protects you from. Nobody trying to gank you is OP SUCCESS.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2960 - 2012-08-07 23:08:50 UTC
rodyas wrote:
It was, but you adapt as you said.


You can't sit here telling me that miner ganking was making the game unplayable when you're saying that nobody ever bothered you while you mined.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration